Anyone Else Thinks Having A Family Sounds A Little Depressing?

[Virgil the Roman]

God designed and made marriage for procreation and having progeny. Marriage is for making babies. If you don't want children: Do NOT GET MARRIED! God said to Adam and Eve:

'Be fruitful and multiple.​

It is selfish to think:

'I want all the benefits of getting married, but no children.'​

You may say: 'But I do not think that!' Yet, this is what you are implying and in essence saying.

It is assumed that one will copulate with one's spouse; the purpose of coition is to procreate and produce progeny; if you do not agree with this biological, natural end, and divinely-designed purpose (choosing to act contrarily to what God has designed and willed; frustrating what He has made) that's your choice; however, ill-begotten it may be.

 

[Lord Herdsetk]

What happens if two people who do not want to have children get married then? More so I'm asking, how does it offend God?

 

[Virgil the Roman]

Well, then they better not have sex then. God designed sex to have children; contracepting or aborting one's children away is sinful. It violates God's divine design and natural purpose of sex: to procreate and beget children (which is the primary aspect, the secondary aspect is one of uniting the spouse close together to one another in loving-charity and strengthen the bond between the two; emotions are the tertiary aspect).

Prior to 1930, all Christian Churches spoke out against Abortion and Contraception as sinful; even the reformers Luther and Calvin condemned contraception and coitus interruptus as sinful---the sin of Onan and therefore condemned by God.

I always find it odd, that no one ever argues much these days about preserving this particular doctrine or belief. It is as if this aspect of modern-secular culture was absorbed by the vast majority of Christians in Western Cultures now do not care.

They live lives completely indistinguishable in a certain sense, from heathens, agnostics, atheists, or non-Christians of any stripe; their lives and mentalities are no different, but rather of the same mindset.

If Contraception and abortion are okay, provide me with a solid defense of from Church resources, saints, theologians, philosophers, and/or Scripture prior to 1930, that says that Contraception and Abortion are permissible and not sinful. I would like to see such documents. I am curiosu. Thus far, I have seen none.

I see no reason to alter one's faith---the Truth of God, to coincide or kowtow to the dominance of the culture's dictates; most especially whenever the culture prior thus agreed with the religion of Christ, but now however, does not. Truth does not change; it is immutable.

I go by the famous Christian apologist, G.K. Chesteron's axiom:

"We do not really need a religion that is right where we are right. What we need is a religion that is right where we are wrong."
— G.K. Chesterton
​

 

[Lord Herdsetk]

What happens then if these two people commit their lives to each other before God, and have sex? By some chance, lets say that they never conceive a child. Whether or not the man and woman are capable of having children is besides the point, they could just be timing their sex nights in such a way that its off the woman's schedule.

Would this be considered wrong?

 

[Nilloc]

God designed and made marriage for procreation and having progeny. Marriage is for making babies. If you don't want children: Do NOT GET MARRIED! God said to Adam and Eve:
'Be fruitful and multiple.

Actually according to Genesis 2:20, God created marriage for the primarily purpose of companionship, not children. It was pointed out earlier (I think) that the command in Genesis 1 probably has to do more with the fact that the earth was empty, not that it’s the main function of marriage. Why else was the same command given again to Noah when the world was again empty of people?

I think it’s repeated at yet again to the Israelites when they enter the land (though I might be wrong on that) so they have enough people to take possession. If we’re going to be getting our theology of marriage from the creation myths, Gen. 2 seems to be more relevant to our current situation, I think. Besides, don’t you think it’s a little funny that neither Jesus nor Paul ever gave such a commandment?

It is selfish to think:

'I want all the benefits of getting married, but no children.

The author of Gen. 2 apparently didn't think it was selfish.

 

[Lord Herdsetk]

Here's another way of looking at it. Whenever God says to go out and be fruitful, usually there's not many people around. Do the math there.

 

[Virgil the Roman]

Creation myths? I was not aware that historical literature (the bible) from whence Christianity derives and Christ obtained his historical and prophetical fulfillment and mandate was illusory as pure myth is. It seems rather strange from someone such as yourself, identifying with a Christian icon.

 

[Virgil the Roman]

Here's another way of looking at it. Whenever God says to go out and be fruitful, usually there's not many people around. Do the math there.

Death and Disease (natural causes).

Abortion and Contraception (artificial and un-natural causes that God does not desire nor wish. If it were so, that such would be naturally apart of one's biology; however such is most certainly not the case).

 

[Virgil the Roman]

I have not seen any other documentation supporting contraception and abortion as non-sinful prior to 1930 that has been cited. I have seen opining, which is intriguing; yet, it does not answer my query.

 

[Lord Herdsetk]

Just because its a myth doesn't mean its false or fake. Its simply a story they told conveying how the world and life as we know it came to be. Adam (which could come from the term Adama meaning dirt), may not be literally named Adam for all we know. However, there was a man who was created by God as well as a woman created by God.

 

[Virgil the Roman]

You are correct, Sir.

One may know that the word "myth" does not necessarily imply a false or fictitious tale in the strictest sense of the term. For it merely means it is a "tale" or "story" of sorts; with no reference to the verity or veracity of the same, whatsoever.

However, the modern implication of the word myth is almost solely meant and taken for, a fictitious story having no true bearing or grounding in reality or the life of man. Hence, that was the sense that I was taking him to meaning in his post.

 

[Nilloc]

Creation myths? I was not aware that historical literature (the bible) from whence Christianity derives and Christ obtained his historical and prophetical fulfillment and mandate was illusory as pure myth is. It seems rather strange from someone such as yourself, identifying with a Christian icon.

Gee, thanks for ignoring the rest of my post and centering in on one word I used. I would appreciate a response to the rest of what I said.

But anyway, I didn’t say the whole Bible was a myth I said the creation stories were. By “myth” I mean a fictional story that teaches a truth (like Jesus’s parables). I doubt that Genesis 1 & 2 describe actual historical events and I think that the authors who wrote them probably thought the same way. I do believe that they are theologically true (in context), I just can’t ignore what scholars say about the origin of the Pentateuch or what scientists say about the history of the earth.

This of course has nothing to do with what we were talking and has only distracted from the discussion.

 

[Lord Herdsetk]

That just shows how we can take words and change their context over time or culture. Seeing as the guy who used it is a Christian, I assume he was talking about it in a story sense instead of a "that's just made up" sense.

Back on topic, having an abortion or contraception is pretty grey stuff. Just me personally, but I don't see contraception as a bad thing. Hear me out though, at least get where I'm coming from.

To me, a human life starts when he or she is able to grow. As soon as the egg and sperm meet, a human life grows. I really don't get the arguments for people concerned about lives as eggs or as sperm. What I understand is that these people view the eggs and sperm as being alive, maybe referencing a verse from the Bible where it talks about God knowing someone before they were still in the father's loins or something. I look at that verse as God saying I knew you before you were even a thought. Again though, this is just my opinion. Feel free to disagree with me, I just wanted to give you some context here as to why I feel this way.

Abortion is a lot more grey than contraception imo. With abortion you are ending a human life. My philosophy is this though, if you are having an abortion to save a woman's life or some other dire situation, I won't say anything. I have no right to say if that's wrong or not. HOWEVER, if you are having an abortion because you didn't want to have a kid but had sex anyways, regardless if you used anything as a contraception, you are killing a human being because you want to shun the responsibility of the risks that come with having sex. You should be prepared for pregnancy if you are having sex willingly. There's always a chance the woman could end up pregnant. If you want to pis me off quickly, call the fruits of your labor less than human as an excuse for having an abortion.

As far as whether or not this was argued before 1930 or whatever, I really could care less. Our standards of what is acceptable and what is not changes with time. I think you should talk it over with God about this matter.

 

[Irrkunst]

The next time my mother asks me why I refuse to set foot in a Catholic church I am going to send her this thread. This pretty much sums it up.