any seventh day baptists here? tell me more!!

[Soyeong]

To Goodbook


I think it is very important to make distinction between spiritual and physical rituals. You mentioned Galatians there you claim that “it talks about not being bound to OT laws anymore.” Actually many Books of NT reflecting such claim, but it have been deeply misunderstood by many. Paul meant not bound by ritual of the OT and not by entire OT.


Without OT will be no NT. Spiritual commandments of GOD in Old Testament have been preserved by Jesus Christ and repeated by Him in all His sermons. Only physical rituals have been abandoned because of the Sacrifice of Christ Who took the most important ritual of sacrificial offering to GOD, and sacrifice Himself to Him. When He done it, the physical rituals of the Old Testament and the Law of Moses became absolute, but the spiritual commandments of OT and Law of Moses remain all intact.

The law is spiritual (Romans 7:14), but that wouldn't have excused Moses from keeping the physical rituals. Rather, the spiritual commands go above and beyond what the written commands require, which means that by keeping the spiritual commands, we are also automatically keeping the requirements of the written commands. For instance, the spiritual understanding of adultery is that a man is not supposed to even think lustfully about a married woman, and by keeping that spiritual command, he is also automatically keeping the requirement of the written command against adultery. Jesus said that he came only to do the Father's will (John 6:38) and that his teaching was not his own, but that of the Father (John 7:16), so he was not in disagreement with the Father and did not teach a different set of commands, but rather he fulfilled the law by bringing full understanding to how it should correctly be understood and obeyed.

If I remember right, I think I posted a thread concerning Sabbath, but I do not remember on which forum. May be I will do it again, because it is very important to understand and make distinction between physical rituals “works of the Law” as often mentioned in the New Testament, and its spiritual commandments, and particularly of the Sabbath Day.

There is no definitive article in Greek for the phrase "works of law" and the phrase was used for things that were specifically not God's Law, though they were man-made laws that were based on it. For instance:

Galatians 3:2 this only do I wish to learn from you -- by works of law the Spirit did ye receive, or by the hearing of faith? (YLT)

 

[Soyeong]

The reason most of us worship on a Sunday is because that is the day our Lord was crucified. You will notice that the early Christians in the Bible all worshipped on a Sunday and never once did God chastise them for doing. The whole principle of the Sabbath was to have one day wholly devoted to God and as a remembrance of his work during the creation of the world.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with worshipping on Sunday to honor the day that Jesus was resurrected, but that in no way means that we shouldn't also obey God's command to keep the Sabbath holy. All throughout Acts it mentions that they continued to meet on the Sabbath and there is only one time (Acts 20:7-8) where it says that they met on the first day of the week, but the word "sabbaton" which in the plural means the first interval between Sabbaths. In other words, they met at sundown on Saturday night for a Havdalah service at the close at the Sabbath, and then Paul preached until midnight and left to travel on Sunday. In Acts 15:21, it is expected that Christians would be continuing to keep the Sabbath, so the reason why they were never once criticized for meeting to worship on Sunday was because they weren't doing that and there wouldn't have been anything wrong with it even if they were. God only blessed the seventh day and made it holy (Genesis 2:3), so the principle of the Sabbath is keeping the seventh day holy. God's did not give the option to devote any day of the week to Him, but rather He specified the 7th day, and we should seek to worship God in the way that He wants rather than the way that we want.

 

[Goodbook]

yea, don't see the argument.
I'm not an adventist, so really don't see the point in being legalistic about it. Keep it holy, but don't be legalistic. The orthodox Jews are can be extremely legalistic about it to the point they can't even turn on a light switch.

 

[Soyeong]

yea, don't see the argument.
I'm not an adventist, so really don't see the point in being legalistic about it. Keep it holy, but don't be legalistic. The orthodox Jews are can be extremely legalistic about it to the point they can't even turn on a light switch.

Being legalistic isn't about saying that we should obey God's commands, but rather it is about the way that you obey God's commands. God did not give the law to Moses because He thought that he could use a heavy legalistic burden, but rather it was intended to be received as delight (Psalms 1:1-2, Psalms 119, Romans 7:22) that gives rest for our souls (Jeremiah 6:16-19) and to be obeyed out of faith (Habakkuk 2:4) and love (John 14:15) in a way that builds a relationship between God and His people (Isaiah 1:13-17, Isaiah 29:13). God's law is holy, righteous, and good (Romans 7:12) and our faith upholds it (Romans 3:31), but what our faith does not uphold is when our sin perverts it into legalism and makes it about what we can do to merit God's favor through our own efforts, which robs our souls of peace.

When God give us a command, it should naturally be interested in knowing how to obey it, so that we obey it correctly as it was intended. For instance, to correctly obey God's command to rest on the Sabbath, we need to know what activities violate that command. Or when God commands us not to light a fire on the Sabbath (Exodus 35:3), does turning on light switch violate the intent of that command? Or was it because fires took work to start and were used for work? It is good to obey God correctly, but if we are not careful, our focus can shift away from being about loving and trusting God to following our own rules. This is what happened with the Pharisees (Mark 7:6-13) and is what Jesus said he came to correct by fulfilling the law (Matthew 11:28-30. Jesus taught how to correctly obey God's law both by word and by a perfectly sinless example and we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21) and to walk as he walked (1 John 2:4-6).

 

[Soyeong]

The OT was divided in the 10 commandments, in the moral law, social law, etc.
Basically the moral law and the social law is what we have today in our countries;
for example: if you kill you are condemned to go to jail or to die by an injection; in the Leviticus indeed if you killed then you also had to be killed, etc..
so:
The commandment: "You shall not kill"
Law: "if you kill you also must be killed"

The Bible makes no distinction between moral, civil, and ceremonial laws, but rather all of God's laws are inherently moral, and the violation of any of them is sin (1 John 3:4). I don't buy your distinction between commandment and law because other people were commanded to kill the person who committed murder. Furthermore, the Bible doesn't appear follow that distinction. For instance, when sin is defined as lawlessness, it doesn't refer to just refraining from penalizing people, but to disobeying any of God's commands, and not just 10 of them.

Jesus ordered to observe the commandments:

Mark 10:17-22
17 And as he was going forth into the way, there ran one to him, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Teacher, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good save one, even God.
19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor thy father and mother.
20 And he said unto him, Teacher, all these things have I observed from my youth.
21 And Jesus looking upon him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.
22 But his countenance fell at the saying, and he went away sorrowful: for he was one that had great possessions.

ps. to help the poor was ordered by God since the OT

Like all of God's laws, the 10 Commandments can be divided into instruction for how to love God and how to love your neighbor. It is interesting to note that Jesus listed the commands in regard to how to love your neighbor, but where he was lacking was in the commands for how to love God, hence why Jesus told him to follow him.

1 John 5:1-3
1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is begotten of God: and whosoever loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
2 Hereby we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and do his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Indeed the commandment are easy to be observed (Exodus 20) despite our mortal flesh, but Jesus indeed ordered us to pray for to no fall in temptation cause the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak.

Revelation 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints, they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

The faith of Jesus was to fulfil the commandment cause he has not sin cause Jesus didn't kill, He didn't commit adultery nor false testimony, so Jesus of course observed the commandments.
There is a huge difference between The Commandments and The Law:
Commandment: Order of God
Law: Penality to all those who don't obey to the commandment

Again, this passage doesn't saying anything about just 10 of God's commands, but is referring to all of them. God commanded more than 10 and Jesus kept more than 10.

I make a typical example of people which thinks that the 10 commandments have been abolished:
The other day I saw a sister I met in a church that I used to attend; I asked her "How you doing?" she answered "I'm doing well I got divorced from my ex cause I was tired and then God told me I had to find a new man so I did that"............. And this woman changed 3 husbands.

I am not going to judge her, but that happens when some christians don't read nor observe the commandments of God and start to believe which the will of God comes from their own sinful thoughts.
How can we be guided by our thoughts if our thoughts are not good? We have a guide written by God's finger, The Commandments.

The role of the Spirit is to lead us in obedience to God's commands (Ezekiel 36:26-27), so God will never lead us in disobedience to His commands. It's interesting that the world says to trust your heart, while the Bible says that the heart is deceitful above all things (Jeremiah 17:9).

 

[Goodbook]

Well its the sabbath and you are using the internet...so according to some interpretations you are breaking the law!
oh but ..if you are living near the arctic circle and there's no sunrise and sun set in winter for months at a time..how do you say when the sabbath is?

the sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath.


I don't come here to argue. If you want to be right in God's eyes that's all that matters.


shalom.

 

[SeventyTimes7]

"was made for man" indeed, it was made for the man so he could rest, cause before the commandments the world was turned into slavery, but thanks to the 10 commandments now days we live in a better world.
But even before Sinai the saturday was observed by the sons of God.
There is a difference between Law and the Decalogue.
The Decalogue is love, the Law is the punishment for those who don't observe the Decalogue. The law is imposed in all the countries of the world, and thanks to Lord we have the law or the thieves could rob in peace as the assassins could kill without receiving the right punishment.
Be blessed God for His Word, and more His Word would be read and understood, the more this world would live in wellness and peace.

 

[Soyeong]

Well its the sabbath and you are using the internet...so according to some interpretations you are breaking the law!
oh but ..if you are living near the arctic circle and there's no sunrise and sun set in winter for months at a time..how do you say when the sabbath is?

the sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath.


I don't come here to argue. If you want to be right in God's eyes that's all that matters.


shalom.

Clearly I don't agree with that interpretation, but if it is part of God's intent for keeping the Sabbath holy that we should refrain from internet use, then it is something I should repent of. There's a difference between saying that we should obey man's rulings for how to obey God and saying that we should obey God, and much of the NT speaks in regard to that distinction. We must obey God rather than man, so if God says to keep the Sabbath and man says to disregard the Sabbath, then the choice should be clear. The Sabbath is God's precious gift to us and we should not spurn it.

 

[alex2165]

To 70X7


You wrote: “Sad to read your claims, but Jesus ordered to observe the 10 commandments.”


You did not read carefully my post or simply misunderstood it. Before you make any claims on your own, read carefully the posts and reply appropriately.


In my post I meant that certain rituals of the OT have been introduced and encouraged to follow by early Christians and some Christian even today. For example; collecting tithes today is the one such commandments which is widely spread in all churches, which is has absolutely nothing with its original purpose indicated in the OT, because tithes never have been collected in monetary form, but from the produce of the field and from the herds only.


But essential spiritual commandments of the Law of the OT mostly have been ignored, particularly 10 Commandments, and not only by early Christian but today’s Christians as well.


10 Commandments are the spiritual Laws that must be observe and follow by all, who truly have faith in Christ, included Sabbath. Concerning Sabbath argument, in Bible, in OT and NT there is no such commandment of GOD to worship and to praise the Lord on Sunday.


Jesus Christ never gave such commandments, nor did His disciples introduce anything like it. The Sabbath always remained as a major Day of worship and praising the Lord and always been, until someone decided to change it, with was definitely ungodly thing to do.


If paying closely attention to all the healings that Jesus Christ conducted during His mission, almost half of all mentioned miracles He performed have been done on the Sabbath Day, in order to glorify His GOD Father particularly on the Sabbath, and almost after each such miracle people praised the Lord like they never did before.


So, all 10 Commandments and the Sabbath Day shall be today for all Christians as their constitution, as their basis on which their spiritual and moral standards, and their faith as well, are stand upon, and followed and observed “religiously.”


Alex

 

[Soyeong]

To 70X7


You wrote: “Sad to read your claims, but Jesus ordered to observe the 10 commandments.”


You did not read carefully my post or simply misunderstood it. Before you make any claims on your own, read carefully the posts and reply appropriately.


In my post I meant that certain rituals of the OT have been introduced and encouraged to follow by early Christians and some Christian even today. For example; collecting tithes today is the one such commandments which is widely spread in all churches, which is has absolutely nothing with its original purpose indicated in the OT, because tithes never have been collected in monetary form, but from the produce of the field and from the herds only.


But essential spiritual commandments of the Law of the OT mostly have been ignored, particularly 10 Commandments, and not only by early Christian but today’s Christians as well.


10 Commandments are the spiritual Laws that must be observe and follow by all, who truly have faith in Christ, included Sabbath. Concerning Sabbath argument, in Bible, in OT and NT there is no such commandment of GOD to worship and to praise the Lord on Sunday.


Jesus Christ never gave such commandments, nor did His disciples introduce anything like it. The Sabbath always remained as a major Day of worship and praising the Lord and always been, until someone decided to change it, with was definitely ungodly thing to do.


If paying closely attention to all the healings that Jesus Christ conducted during His mission, almost half of all mentioned miracles He performed have been done on the Sabbath Day, in order to glorify His GOD Father particularly on the Sabbath, and almost after each such miracle people praised the Lord like they never did before.


So, all 10 Commandments and the Sabbath Day shall be today for all Christians as their constitution, as their basis on which their spiritual and moral standards, and their faith as well, are stand upon, and followed and observed “religiously.”


Alex

I agree, but there is no need to limit that about only 10 of God's commands.

 

[SeventyTimes7]

To 70X7


You wrote: “Sad to read your claims, but Jesus ordered to observe the 10 commandments.”


You did not read carefully my post or simply misunderstood it. Before you make any claims on your own, read carefully the posts and reply appropriately.


In my post I meant that certain rituals of the OT have been introduced and encouraged to follow by early Christians and some Christian even today. For example; collecting tithes today is the one such commandments which is widely spread in all churches, which is has absolutely nothing with its original purpose indicated in the OT, because tithes never have been collected in monetary form, but from the produce of the field and from the herds only.


But essential spiritual commandments of the Law of the OT mostly have been ignored, particularly 10 Commandments, and not only by early Christian but today’s Christians as well.


10 Commandments are the spiritual Laws that must be observe and follow by all, who truly have faith in Christ, included Sabbath. Concerning Sabbath argument, in Bible, in OT and NT there is no such commandment of GOD to worship and to praise the Lord on Sunday.


Jesus Christ never gave such commandments, nor did His disciples introduce anything like it. The Sabbath always remained as a major Day of worship and praising the Lord and always been, until someone decided to change it, with was definitely ungodly thing to do.


If paying closely attention to all the healings that Jesus Christ conducted during His mission, almost half of all mentioned miracles He performed have been done on the Sabbath Day, in order to glorify His GOD Father particularly on the Sabbath, and almost after each such miracle people praised the Lord like they never did before.


So, all 10 Commandments and the Sabbath Day shall be today for all Christians as their constitution, as their basis on which their spiritual and moral standards, and their faith as well, are stand upon, and followed and observed “religiously.”


Alex

I am sorry, I thought you included the commandments in your past comment, forgive me