Agnost looking for guidance

GrayAngel

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Hey everyone,

First let me introduce myself. I'm a agnost and raised in the Netherlands in a atheist/agnost environment. Sorry if I make any grammar mistakes, english isn't my native language. I've been an agnost in the sense, that I accept that there is a possibility that God(s) may or may not exist. Many Atheïsts cannot explain why, for example, there are physics laws and what created the first atoms. These can only be explained by accepting that there are concepts in this world, humans cannot comprehend. I accept the fact, that there are things that cannot be explained. One way of explaining how these 'unexplainable' events happened is religion.

I've always been fascinated by religion. However there are certain 'issues' that prevent me from believing in (your) God. Is there any chance you could try to persuade me from these following issues? Possibly one by one.

1. Many religions tell me that when I don't believe in their god, I will burn in Hell (or get punished). They tell me I'm denying Gods Love and that I'm unthankful that Christ sacrified his life and that I'm selfish for doing that. If I turn a Christian, all other religions say I'm ignorant and will burn in Hell. And if I turn Muslim many christians will tell me the same. How would a agnost know which 'God' is the real one? What makes Christianity the truth and Islam (or any other religion) not the truth?

My problem point is: It's not fair to punish agnosts and other believers, while they WOULD believe in the true God if they knew which one was real. Every theist is saying that "you have to keep searching and eventually you'll find that X is the true God!". The fact is, very religion says this epeople who keep searching and up being Pagan or any other religion. How is it their fault when they honestly believe they are believing the right God? It's not like their actively trying to be evil.

There are only two options for the afterlife: eternity with the true God and eternity away from Him. Can you say that any of us are deserving of an eternal afterlife of perfect bliss? No. Imperfect people cannot justly receive such a reward. It is only through Christ's sacrifice that we can be justified by proxy and enter in. The rest will enter into Hell.

Whichever way you go, however, you will be judged based on your actions. In Heaven, there is no condemnation, so the judgement will only be points in favor of the ones who are there. In Hell, however, people are judged for ALL they had done, good or bad, and they are given fair treatment.

I highly doubt that Hell is like it is like it is depicted, as a place of fiery torment. Perhaps for some it will be that way, but to throw everyone into the same fire would hardly be fair. I suspect Heaven and Hell are a little different from their literal descriptions in the Bible.

2. It's a fact that the religion you believe in is highly dependent on where you've been raised. Most people in the US are Christians and most people in Iran are Muslims. Knowing that the religion you believe in is highly influenced by your parents and surroundings, how can you blame a Muslim for being a Muslim? And how can you blame a Atheist for being Atheist, when they have been told all life that what they believe is the truth. I just seems unfair of God to 'punish' these people.

It is a sin to give what rightly belongs to God to a false deity. Muslim's, for example, have done Jesus a great insult by reducing Him from Son of God to "just a prophet." But this is not all that is counted against them. They will have to give an account for everything they'd done in life.

3. Similar to 1, what makes you think the Bible is the truth and Qu'ran isn't?

Do you know why Muslims tend to hate Israel so much? It's because, according to the prophet Mohammed, the Jews (along with Christians) are no longer God's chosen people. The fact that Israel is still on the map is evidence to the contrary. The history of the rebirth of Israel is unlike anything we've seen in history before. Never has a nation been so thoroughly scattered for such a long period of time and then regathered to rebuild. Today their population is around 7,859,300.

Muslim nations have been trying to remove Israel since it sprang up again, but despite being opposed on all sides, it's still there.

Of course, some Christians have the idea that God's favor has shifted from Israel to themselves, but this is not true. When God makes a covenant, He keeps it. He promised Israel that the land would be theirs until the end of the age. However, just as He has in the past, when Israel turns away from Him, He sends the surrounding nations to oppose them. The Jews rejected God by rejecting Jesus, so they will not have peace. But they are still God's people, just as they've always been.

4. Why does God thinks it's so important we believe in him? Why can't we be good people and go to heaven, regardless of whether we believe in Him? Many Christians seem to think that when atheists/agnosts don't believe in God, that they also actively OPPOSE Him. That isn't true, we don't 'oppose' God. The primary reason they don't believe in God, is just because they don't see enough evidence. Not because we support Satan (we don't believe in Satan either).

As I said, no one can deserve Heaven no matter have good they are. No one is perfect, so no one deserves perfection. But Jesus was perfect, and His sacrifice serves as the only way a just God could allow us to have what we cannot ever earn.

While many atheists may not be actively campaigning against Christianity and religion in general, all atheists have their realms of influence, and their ideas affect the way others will see the world themselves. Others, however, are very hateful towards religion, and they do whatever they can to oppose it.

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5. Why doesn't God make it more clear which God is the REAL one? This is the REAL issue for me. If God thinks it's so important, why doesn't he just SHOW himself.

There are many reasons to believe that the Christian God is the right one. Several hundred prophecies pointing to Jesus' life, written hundreds of years before His birth, are some of those reasons. There's also the fact that if you hold the Bible to the same standards as a history book, it would pass with flying colors as a source more reliable than any other.

Put these other religions to the test. Investigate them with an open mind and see which one holds the most evidence for its views. It has been done before, and the choice has been--in every instance I've heard of--Christianity.

Right now I see God as very cruel (sorry if this may sound offensive, feel free to correct me when it's not true). He's allowing multiple religions on this planet, each very similar to each other. All religions claim they are the 'right' one. There are many religions with very large numbers of followers, so number of followers can't be used to see which religions is the real one. He could EASILY (since he's all-powerful and all-knowing) clarify to the humans which religion is the correct one. Yet he decides to TORTURE every single nonbeliever/false believer for ETERNITY, after he knowingly kept all these persons oblivious. Some Christians/Muslims say he doesn't keep us oblivious and all the signs are around us, but ALL religions say this. How could a agnost possibly know which is the real one? Trust me, if he would give me more evident 'signs' that He exists, I WOULD believe in him. I just want to choose the right religion if it exists, but he has to make it more evident. Many people do NOT know they are choosing a wrong religion. They might have been persuaded by the devil or their surroundings, honestly thinking it is God and honestly thinking they are doing good. Why punish these people for eternity when this mistake has been caused by the Devil or the people surrounding you?

Religions are man-made inventions. There are many of them because people like to distort the truth and make others think the same way they do. Even Christianity will not get you to Heaven. Simply aligning oneself with the central beliefs set by a church is not enough. Jesus did not ask us to join a club but to take action. We live in His footsteps, picking up our cross, dying to sin and being raised to new life. This is what saving faith looks like.

If you want to find stronger evidence for God, keep looking. He converted Saul with a bright flash of light and a loud voice when He wasn't even asking for it. He provides evidence wherever He wants to. Ask for it, look in the right places, and there's a chance you'll find some pretty strong evidence.

Personally, I've had a few of those undeniable signs before. I can't convince someone else with them, but I can't deny what I've experienced with my own senses, what others around me have also seen and confirmed to be true.

Just in this past mission trip I was on, there was one of those experiences. We were split up in groups at the time, and we walked around a college campus to talk with people. One group was in the middle of praying for someone when they noticed how loud and distracting the TVs were, and one of them prayed for God to remove the distraction. Immediately, the power went out over the whole campus. I was in a different group at the time, so I only saw the lights go out, but someone told me the rest of the story later.
 
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elman

elman
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I suspect Heaven and Hell are a little different from their literal descriptions in the Bible.
I disagree. I think they will be vastly different. The Bible says we are not able to even image how good heaven will be. I think that is true.
 
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GrayAngel

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I disagree. I think they will be vastly different. The Bible says we are not able to even image how good heaven will be. I think that is true.

:| It was an intentional understatement, the opposite of a hyperbole. Anyway, you're not even supposed to comment on another Christian's answers here.
 
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send.the.rain

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Hi, the first thing that I want to say to you is that it is good to have questions. But at the same time, the answers aren't ultimately what will make you believe in God. You can't rationalize your way to loving God. It is when you experience God's love that you will believe. When you receive salvation, are filled with the Spirit, have answered prayers... then you will know what is true. I know this from a personal experience, because I always thought of myself as a rational atheist. But when I encountered God, He made everything clear.

1. Many religions tell me that when I don't believe in their god, I will burn in Hell (or get punished). They tell me I'm denying Gods Love and that I'm unthankful that Christ sacrified his life and that I'm selfish for doing that. If I turn a Christian, all other religions say I'm ignorant and will burn in Hell. And if I turn Muslim many christians will tell me the same. How would a agnost know which 'God' is the real one? What makes Christianity the truth and Islam (or any other religion) not the truth?

My problem point is: It's not fair to punish agnosts and other believers, while they WOULD believe in the true God if they knew which one was real. Every theist is saying that "you have to keep searching and eventually you'll find that X is the true God!". The fact is, very religion says this epeople who keep searching and up being Pagan or any other religion. How is it their fault when they honestly believe they are believing the right God? It's not like their actively trying to be evil.

It's my understanding that the three major religions all worship the same God. However, what differs is how they view things such as salvation. For example, Jews follow the law, while Christians believe that Christ brings salvation. The problem with other religions is that they fail to understand the Jesus was the Son of God. God has made this known to the world, except people decide to be lead astray


2. It's a fact that the religion you believe in is highly dependent on where you've been raised. Most people in the US are Christians and most people in Iran are Muslims. Knowing that the religion you believe in is highly influenced by your parents and surroundings, how can you blame a Muslim for being a Muslim? And how can you blame a Atheist for being Atheist, when they have been told all life that what they believe is the truth. I just seems unfair of God to 'punish' these people.

I struggle with this as well, I will admit, because it makes me sad to know that some people will not be saved. But, I believe that God makes Himself know. Again, I was always an atheist. But when I came to college, I somehow became a Christian. I believe that God tries to reach out to all people, except we all have free choice and some fail to respond to His call.

3. Similar to 1, what makes you think the Bible is the truth and Qu'ran isn't?
Well, I don't know much about the Qu'ran. But the Bible is true because it is inspired by God and the Son. God's promise of a Messiah has already been fulfilled in Jesus. No other laws are required.

4. Why does God thinks it's so important we believe in him? Why can't we be good people and go to heaven, regardless of whether we believe in Him? Many Christians seem to think that when atheists/agnosts don't believe in God, that they also actively OPPOSE Him. That isn't true, we don't 'oppose' God. The primary reason they don't believe in God, is just because they don't see enough evidence. Not because we support Satan (we don't believe in Satan either).

God made us to have a loving relationship with Him. And He made a promise that we shall be saved by believing in Christ. Also, all people are unclean because of sin, no matter what good works they do. It is by the blood of Christ that we are made clean.

5. Why doesn't God make it more clear which God is the REAL one? This is the REAL issue for me. If God thinks it's so important, why doesn't he just SHOW himself.

It comes down to choice. We have the choice to reject God, or to accept Him. He tries to make Himself known, but many people reject God in their selfish ways. God is all loving. I bet it breaks His heart when He looks down at the world. But, He wants us to choose to love Him, not be forced to love Him. Love is not love if there is no choice.
 
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