Agnost looking for guidance

[Firewolx]

Hey everyone,

First let me introduce myself. I'm a agnost and raised in the Netherlands in a atheist/agnost environment. Sorry if I make any grammar mistakes, english isn't my native language. I've been an agnost in the sense, that I accept that there is a possibility that God(s) may or may not exist. Many Atheïsts cannot explain why, for example, there are physics laws and what created the first atoms. These can only be explained by accepting that there are concepts in this world, humans cannot comprehend. I accept the fact, that there are things that cannot be explained. One way of explaining how these 'unexplainable' events happened is religion.

I've always been fascinated by religion. However there are certain 'issues' that prevent me from believing in (your) God. Is there any chance you could try to persuade me from these following issues? Possibly one by one.

1. Many religions tell me that when I don't believe in their god, I will burn in Hell (or get punished). They tell me I'm denying Gods Love and that I'm unthankful that Christ sacrified his life and that I'm selfish for doing that. If I turn a Christian, all other religions say I'm ignorant and will burn in Hell. And if I turn Muslim many christians will tell me the same. How would a agnost know which 'God' is the real one? What makes Christianity the truth and Islam (or any other religion) not the truth?

My problem point is: It's not fair to punish agnosts and other believers, while they WOULD believe in the true God if they knew which one was real. Every theist is saying that "you have to keep searching and eventually you'll find that X is the true God!". The fact is, very religion says this epeople who keep searching and up being Pagan or any other religion. How is it their fault when they honestly believe they are believing the right God? It's not like their actively trying to be evil.


2. It's a fact that the religion you believe in is highly dependent on where you've been raised. Most people in the US are Christians and most people in Iran are Muslims. Knowing that the religion you believe in is highly influenced by your parents and surroundings, how can you blame a Muslim for being a Muslim? And how can you blame a Atheist for being Atheist, when they have been told all life that what they believe is the truth. I just seems unfair of God to 'punish' these people.

3. Similar to 1, what makes you think the Bible is the truth and Qu'ran isn't?

4. Why does God thinks it's so important we believe in him? Why can't we be good people and go to heaven, regardless of whether we believe in Him? Many Christians seem to think that when atheists/agnosts don't believe in God, that they also actively OPPOSE Him. That isn't true, we don't 'oppose' God. The primary reason they don't believe in God, is just because they don't see enough evidence. Not because we support Satan (we don't believe in Satan either).

5. Why doesn't God make it more clear which God is the REAL one? This is the REAL issue for me. If God thinks it's so important, why doesn't he just SHOW himself.

Right now I see God as very cruel (sorry if this may sound offensive, feel free to correct me when it's not true). He's allowing multiple religions on this planet, each very similar to each other. All religions claim they are the 'right' one. There are many religions with very large numbers of followers, so number of followers can't be used to see which religions is the real one. He could EASILY (since he's all-powerful and all-knowing) clarify to the humans which religion is the correct one. Yet he decides to TORTURE every single nonbeliever/false believer for ETERNITY, after he knowingly kept all these persons oblivious. Some Christians/Muslims say he doesn't keep us oblivious and all the signs are around us, but ALL religions say this. How could a agnost possibly know which is the real one? Trust me, if he would give me more evident 'signs' that He exists, I WOULD believe in him. I just want to choose the right religion if it exists, but he has to make it more evident. Many people do NOT know they are choosing a wrong religion. They might have been persuaded by the devil or their surroundings, honestly thinking it is God and honestly thinking they are doing good. Why punish these people for eternity when this mistake has been caused by the Devil or the people surrounding you?

 

[hedrick]

There are an increasing number of Christians asking the same questions you are. Many Christians think that God will judge people based on what they know. Someone who hasn't heard the Gospel will be judged based on how they respond to what they know of God. This position is acceptable under current Catholic doctrine, and among more liberal Protestants. Conservative Protestant churches generally say you have to have faith in Christ specifically, but surveys suggest that many of their members also accept that you'll be judged based on how you respond to what you know. The New Testament can reasonably be interpreted that way.

The reason Christ is important is because we think he is the primary way that God chose to fix humanity. Most religions and cultures have a pretty good idea how people should behave, though there are certainly some differences in what different religions teach. The problem is that we have a long history showing that we can't do it on our own. Jesus came to show us the way in person, and also so that by spiritual union with him, he would change our motivations.

Those of us who think that non-Christians may be saved generally believe that in committing themselves to serve the Good, non-Christians are asking Christ into their lives even though they don't know it. I agree that most agnostics aren't actively opposing God, although many Christians think that in failing to accept Christ, you effectively set yourself against him.

Of course God did show himself, but I understand what you mean. You mean, why doesn't he show himself to you, or at least appear today in some form. I don't know. He doesn't say. The best guess we have is that he is trying to provide a world in which people can develop as responsible individuals, and that if he shows himself too clearly, everyone will serve him out of fear. This is the same reason he allows evil. We can't learn to be responsible if every time something bad is about to happen, a miracle occurs to stop it. If he really tortures everyone who makes a mistake this might be cruel. But I don't think he does that.

How do I know what religion to follow? I think we can see a pattern of people learning more about God. In the Christian Bible we can see that Israel starts out having the same idea of God as other nations: He is a tribal God who will give them victory in war if they worship him. But over time, the prophets (who are people that spoke for God) said (1) that God cares more about how we treat each other than about how we worship, (2) that Israel was supposed to show all nations what God is like, and attract them to God. I believe this marks a clear advance in understanding God. Then Jesus marks a further advance. When people were unable to follow everything the prophets taught, Jesus came to change us internally.

Most other religions, it seems to me, are still in one of the earlier stages. In particular, I think Islam was a definite advance over the religions that Arabs had at the time. Other Christians may disagree with me here, but I think it's possible that Mohammed actually was sent from God to improve Arabian religions. However I think there's evidence that he never quite understood Christianity. Islam is still at the level of telling people what is right, but doesn't have Jesus to change their motivations.

I don't think we need to reject everything other religions say. Some may have good ideas, even some good ideas that Christians don't have. However I don't see any others that have anything quite like Christ. I also think there's fairly good historical evidence for Jesus' death and resurrection.

 

[Firewolx]

Wow Hedrick, that was a really good answer and you knew exactly what I meant. I love how you're being fair that you don't know everything. There are many Christians who claim to know everything and don't doubt about anything.

There might be another reason why God isn't showing himself, possibly because we (as humans) can't be sure whether it's God showing himself, or Satan posing as God.

 

[oi_antz]

Hello Firewolx, welcome to CF! I appreciate that you have come along asking sincerely because most people come along here asking to make a point - that point being that they are right. I am the same, and when you become Christian you become intensely aware of your own hypocrisy, because that is just one way you can learn to improve. Anyway, when I read your OP I know what I want to explain to you as I understand, because I am an intense thinker and some of what you have said is some that I have already thought about. Hopefully by discussing these topics with you we can put our heads together and expand on our understanding. It takes two to tango, which is why both you and I can benefit by thinking together. I will think from a Christian perspective (only my Christian perspective though), and you can think from your own perspective. Together we should cover a lot of ground because it sounds like we are both going to be honest and admit when we have to change our beliefs. Is that ok? I'm keen, let's go!

Hey everyone,

First let me introduce myself. I'm a agnost and raised in the Netherlands in a atheist/agnost environment. Sorry if I make any grammar mistakes, english isn't my native language. I've been an agnost in the sense, that I accept that there is a possibility that God(s) may or may not exist. Many Atheïsts cannot explain why, for example, there are physics laws and what created the first atoms. These can only be explained by accepting that there are concepts in this world, humans cannot comprehend. I accept the fact, that there are things that cannot be explained. One way of explaining how these 'unexplainable' events happened is religion.

There are different reasons why religion has been used. Some have used it to control the population, that has been quite prominent when empowering a population to war. I wouldn't say though that Jesus' disciples had war in mind when they formed the early church, though it has become the excuse for war by various regimes since then. Religion is also used as an industry too, there are a lot of churches which preach to keep their flock subdued and tithing. That is to keep donating a portion of their income to the church. The church gathers wealth this way, enabling the church leaders to become wealthy. Not every church does this, but it does happen and it is heart breaking to see. So you can recognize that some Christians have ulterior motives, they don't seek to unite a person with Christ, instead they pursue wealth and power. Jesus warned us of this.

I've always been fascinated by religion. However there are certain 'issues' that prevent me from believing in (your) God. Is there any chance you could try to persuade me from these following issues? Possibly one by one.

One step at a time, that is best

1. Many religions tell me that when I don't believe
in their god, I will burn in Hell (or get punished). They tell me I'm denying Gods Love and that I'm unthankful that Christ sacrified his life and that I'm selfish for doing that. If I turn a Christian, all other religions say I'm ignorant and will burn in Hell. And if I turn Muslim many christians will tell me the same. How would a agnost know which 'God' is the real one? What makes Christianity the truth and Islam (or any other religion) not the truth?

You first have to establish that your teacher is teaching you in truth. Jesus is the ultimate teacher of the Christian faith, it is Him who teaches me and if you want my advice I would say that you need to also seek to be taught by Him. If you turn to another religion then there is no guarantee that your teacher will be as wise and omniscient as Jesus. Jesus actually stated that when He had left the world then He would send The Holy Spirit which will be our counsellor and would remind us of everything He had taught. When a person is "born again" they receive The Holy Spirit from God which gives us a direct relationship with God to learn from Him by comparing the insight He gives as we read the bible to the observations we make from the world we live in. So we are continually learning simply by thinking under the influence of The Holy Spirit. If you were to learn from another religion you would first have to establish whether that religion gave you the same relationship with God as Jesus does, and if not then investigate whether the wisdom of your prospective teacher can match the wisdom of Jesus.

My problem point is: It's not fair to punish agnosts and other believers, while they WOULD believe in the true God if they knew which one was real. Every theist is saying that "you have to keep searching and eventually you'll find that X is the true God!". The fact is, very religion says this epeople who keep searching and up being Pagan or any other religion. How is it their fault when they honestly believe they are believing the right God? It's not like their actively trying to be evil.

This is a perfect example of what I am saying. You have learned about Christianity from someone who is not Jesus, but for me what I have learned from my time listening to what Jesus has taught me by The Holy Spirit, is that atheist's and agnostics are not automatically disqualified because you are right that some of them simply have not had the reality of the gospel made clear to them. So they have not actually rejected Jesus, they have rejected dogma. Jesus even said that many who implore Him "Lord, Lord, have we not done miracles in your name" will not be accepted, He will say "I never knew you". This is a good reason for you to get on your knees and pray to Him "please accept me, show me the truth". I say this because no-one else can do the work that belongs to God, and God can not open the door if you have locked it closed.

2. It's a fact that the religion you believe in is highly dependent on where you've been raised. Most people in the US are Christians and most people in Iran are Muslims. Knowing that the religion you believe in is highly influenced by your parents and surroundings, how can you blame a Muslim for being a Muslim? And how can you blame a Atheist for being Atheist, when they have been told all life that what they believe is the truth. I just seems unfair of God to 'punish' these people.

I believe you are right, it is unfair to punish people who would have accepted Jesus if they had have known the truth of the gospel. However, there is a large proportion of those who don't believe that continue to reject the gospel even when it is presented in truth. You may need to consider whether the gospel you know is in fact the true gospel as preached by Jesus, or whether the gospel you are familiar with is some perversion of a latter day church. There is only one Jesus, if everyone is arguing about what Jesus stands for then you ought to be concerned about whether they really are standing for truth or perhaps they are striving for power and wealth.

3. Similar to 1, what makes you think the Bible is the truth and Qu'ran isn't?

I understand that the Qu'ran was given to Mohammad by way of the archangel Gabriel. I am aware that the Qu'ran contradicts the bible, which is given by the hand of men I believe to be honest. I don't question Mohammad's honesty, I question whether the angel really was Gabriel. Since it contradicts what The Holy Spirit has said through the prophets of the bible, I simply don't trust it.

4. Why does God thinks it's so important we believe in him? Why can't we be good people and go to heaven, regardless of whether we believe in Him? Many Christians seem to think that when atheists/agnosts don't believe in God, that they also actively OPPOSE Him. That isn't true, we don't 'oppose' God. The primary reason they don't believe in God, is just because they don't see enough evidence. Not because we support Satan (we don't believe in Satan either).

You can't presume to speak for others. What you are saying here is true for your case but not for others. There are indeed many atheist's who oppose God and they make that very clear in their response to what God has said. You and I are going to get to the crunch pretty soon where you will have to decide whether you do oppose God or not. It would not happen unless you were interested in knowing the truth about God.

5. Why doesn't God make it more clear which God is the REAL one? This is the REAL issue for me. If God thinks it's so important, why doesn't he just SHOW himself.

Experience has shown me that even when I don't understand God's wisdom, when the result is achieved, His wisdom (peculiar as it is) is indeed perfectly effective.

Right now I see God as very cruel (sorry if this may sound offensive, feel free to correct me when it's not true). He's allowing multiple religions on this planet, each very similar to each other. All religions claim they are the 'right' one. There are many religions with very large numbers of followers, so number of followers can't be used to see which religions is the real one. He could EASILY (since he's all-powerful and all-knowing) clarify to the humans which religion is the correct one. Yet he decides to TORTURE every single nonbeliever/false believer for ETERNITY, after he knowingly kept all these persons oblivious. Some Christians/Muslims say he doesn't keep us oblivious and all the signs are around us, but ALL religions say this. How could a agnost possibly know which is the real one? Trust me, if he would give me more evident 'signs' that He exists, I WOULD believe in him. I just want to choose the right religion if it exists, but he has to make it more evident. Many people do NOT know they are choosing a wrong religion. They might have been persuaded by the devil or their surroundings, honestly thinking it is God and honestly thinking they are doing good. Why punish these people for eternity when this mistake has been caused by the Devil or the people surrounding you?

You have made some pretty big presumptions here. Do you have scriptural support that God will "condemn unbelievers to eternal torture"?

 

[hedrick]

Wow Hedrick, that was a really good answer and you knew exactly what I meant. I love how you're being fair that you don't know everything. There are many Christians who claim to know everything and don't doubt about anything.

There might be another reason why God isn't showing himself, possibly because we (as humans) can't be sure whether it's God showing himself, or Satan posing as God.

Many Christians feel the same way you do. A lot of Christians are concerned that we're giving the impression that God is immoral. There's a lot of discussion among Christians about the morality of hell. And about non-Christians, it's really pretty common for Christians to believe that non-Christians can meet Christ without realizing it.

Many of us also think that whatever hell is, it's something that people choose. It's not a place where guys in red tights with pitchforks attack you because you committed too many sins. It is a place where God is absent. Now not everyone thinks any humans will end up there. But if they do, it's because there are people who have become so hardened against God that they can't accept the thought of being with him. But since God is the source of our humanity, this kind of final rejection of God leaves them less than fully human. Personally, I'm not sure God will really allow this to happen to anyone, but if so, many of the agnostics I know would be happy to learn that there really is a loving and just God in charge, and have been doing their best to follow him even though they aren't sure he's there. I can't see them ending up in a situation like that.

In the Bible, judgement is a *good* thing. It's good that God will not allow evil to triumph. We want him to judge evil and stop it. The question is whether he can judge evil without condemning most of humanity. I don't know exactly how, but I think the God I see in Jesus would find a way. However decisions do have consequences. Paul has a vision of last judgement as being a fire, in which everything that is not built on God is burned away. And this applies to Christians. So at the very least, people who reject God and mistreat other people are going to find large parts of their life and of their character that don't survive the judgement.

Please be aware that I'm considered a "liberal" Christian. That means that i try to read the Bible in light of current scholarship, and I'm willing to disagree with traditional Christian views. (However I think there's a lot of value in Christian traditions. I operate mostly within the Reformed tradition.) Most Christians in Christian Forums are conservatives. They're committed to Christian traditions such as the traditional picture of hell. So many people here will disagree with some of what I've said. But even many conservatives think there's hope for some non-Christians. and concerns about the ethics of hell are present even among evangelical Christians, even though not all of them are willing to go as far as I do.

 

[Publius]

1. Many religions tell me that when I don't believe in their god, I will burn in Hell (or get punished). They tell me I'm denying Gods Love and that I'm unthankful that Christ sacrified his life and that I'm selfish for doing that. If I turn a Christian, all other religions say I'm ignorant and will burn in Hell. And if I turn Muslim many christians will tell me the same. How would a agnost know which 'God' is the real one? What makes Christianity the truth and Islam (or any other religion) not the truth?

Strawman #1: People go to Hell for "believing in the wrong God". People go to Hell as a result of their sin, not for being mistaken about God. The only thing being mistaken about God will do is lead you to follow a false god that cannot save.

As for which religion is the correct one, when the Holy Spirit convicts you of your sin and calls you to repent, you'll know.

My problem point is: It's not fair to punish agnosts and other believers, while they WOULD believe in the true God if they knew which one was real.

No they wouldn't.

First of all, they're spiritually dead, just like we all are. No man seeks after God for two reasons: The first is that, until we are born again, we are all enemies of God and love our sin more than we love God. The second reason is that, apart from the regeneration of the Holy Spirit, we are incapable of believing in God and receiving Christ.

There is also the issue of believing in God. What is the point of believing in God if you don't repent and receive Christ?

It's not like their actively trying to be evil.

Really??? So then, when they sin, it's just an accident?

2. It's a fact that the religion you believe in is highly dependent on where you've been raised.

OK. So?

Most people in the US are Christians

Actually, very few people in the US are Christians. Most have just adopted Christian cultural and social norms.

And how can you blame a Atheist for being Atheist, when they have been told all life that what they believe is the truth. I just seems unfair of God to 'punish' these people.

I see. So, if a man has been told all his life that it's wrong to rape a woman and he goes out and rapes a woman, should he be punished?

3. Similar to 1, what makes you think the Bible is the truth and Qu'ran isn't?

We can examine the manuscript, archaeological, prophetic, and statistical evidence of the Bible to see that it is true. Once the Bible is established as true, anything that contradicts it is false.

4. Why does God thinks it's so important we believe in him?

Because we can't believe on His Son unless we believe in Him.

Why can't we be good people and go to heaven

The question isn't "why can't we be good people and go to Heaven", but "why can't we be good people". Your question presupposes that there are people who are capable of being good. There are not. You cannot name one person who has never sinned. Only Christ was sinless.

Many Christians seem to think that when atheists/agnosts don't believe in God, that they also actively OPPOSE Him. That isn't true, we don't 'oppose' God.

Have you kept His laws?

5. Why doesn't God make it more clear which God is the REAL one? This is the REAL issue for me. If God thinks it's so important, why doesn't he just SHOW himself.

He did.

Right now I see God as very cruel. He's allowing multiple religions on this planet, each very similar to each other.

Which religion is similar to Christianity?

He could EASILY (since he's all-powerful and all-knowing) clarify to the humans which religion is the correct one.

He did clarify when He said "There is no other name [than Christ] by which men may be saved".

 

[bling]

Hey everyone,



1. Many religions tell me that when I don't believe in their god, I will burn in Hell (or get punished). They tell me I'm denying Gods Love and that I'm unthankful that Christ sacrified his life and that I'm selfish for doing that. If I turn a Christian, all other religions say I'm ignorant and will burn in Hell. And if I turn Muslim many christians will tell me the same. How would a agnost know which 'God' is the real one? What makes Christianity the truth and Islam (or any other religion) not the truth?

My problem point is: It's not fair to punish agnosts and other believers, while they WOULD believe in the true God if they knew which one was real. Every theist is saying that "you have to keep searching and eventually you'll find that X is the true God!". The fact is, very religion says this epeople who keep searching and up being Pagan or any other religion. How is it their fault when they honestly believe they are believing the right God? It's not like their actively trying to be evil.

First off: God judges the hearts of people and not their outward actions. You are not held accountable for what you do not know and cannot be expected to find out about, but you are held responsible for what you do know. There is only one God no matter what you call Him.

We talk about “searching” for God, but as you would expect a truly concerned parent would hard to fine? The Christian God is at everyone’s elbow and is just waiting for you to turn to Him.

The evidence for God is all around you (every living thing), but you just have to accept the evidence (a tree).

2. It's a fact that the religion you believe in is highly dependent on where you've been raised. Most people in the US are Christians and most people in Iran are Muslims. Knowing that the religion you believe in is highly influenced by your parents and surroundings, how can you blame a Muslim for being a Muslim? And how can you blame a Atheist for being Atheist, when they have been told all life that what they believe is the truth. I just seems unfair of God to 'punish' these people.

This may address several of your questions:
Religion is not what “saves” you and we really might have more “lost” people that call themselves “Christians” than there are lost people that call themselves “Muslims”.

3. Similar to 1, what makes you think the Bible is the truth and Qu'ran isn't?

[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']We are not committing ourselves to any “Book”. The “Bible” is just one tool given to help Christians, but it is not what Christians should be worshipping or relying on.

[/FONT]

4. Why does God thinks it's so important we believe in him? Why can't we be good people and go to heaven, regardless of whether we believe in Him? Many Christians seem to think that when atheists/agnosts don't believe in God, that they also actively OPPOSE Him. That isn't true, we don't 'oppose' God. The primary reason they don't believe in God, is just because they don't see enough evidence. Not because we support Satan (we don't believe in Satan either).

5. Why doesn't God make it more clear which God is the REAL one? This is the REAL issue for me. If God thinks it's so important, why doesn't he just SHOW himself.

Right now I see God as very cruel (sorry if this may sound offensive, feel free to correct me when it's not true). He's allowing multiple religions on this planet, each very similar to each other. All religions claim they are the 'right' one. There are many religions with very large numbers of followers, so number of followers can't be used to see which religions is the real one. He could EASILY (since he's all-powerful and all-knowing) clarify to the humans which religion is the correct one. Yet he decides to TORTURE every single nonbeliever/false believer for ETERNITY, after he knowingly kept all these persons oblivious. Some Christians/Muslims say he doesn't keep us oblivious and all the signs are around us, but ALL religions say this. How could a agnost possibly know which is the real one? Trust me, if he would give me more evident 'signs' that He exists, I WOULD believe in him. I just want to choose the right religion if it exists, but he has to make it more evident. Many people do NOT know they are choosing a wrong religion. They might have been persuaded by the devil or their surroundings, honestly thinking it is God and honestly thinking they are doing good. Why punish these people for eternity when this mistake has been caused by the Devil or the people surrounding you?

It is not that God has some “defect” or “need” that can only be resolved by our “believing” in Him. Humans are the ones with the problem.

Going to the general very important question: “Why do we need to have faith (believe)?”

God could have easily provided “knowledge” of His existence or a way to scientifically “proof” God’s existence and you would not need faith in His existence. “Knowledge” in God’s existence has been shown in scripture to be a detriment instead of an advantage to man.

Humans need to extend faith in a benevolent Creator to help them fulfill their earthly objective. (This brings up the huge subject of “man’s objective”, which I would be happy to discuss if you want, but I need to know you want to go there.)

This whole world is actually controlled by God to provide the absolute best situation for willing humans to fulfill their earthly objective.

I have asked this before of agnostics and atheists:

1. Would obvious knowledge of the Christian God change your behavior?

2. If you had scientific proof for the existence of the Christian God is that the same as Christians believing in the existence of God?

3. Would you feel better or worse if you knew the Christian God existed?

 

[elman]

Hey everyone,

First let me introduce myself. I'm a agnost and raised in the Netherlands in a atheist/agnost environment. Sorry if I make any grammar mistakes, english isn't my native language. I've been an agnost in the sense, that I accept that there is a possibility that God(s) may or may not exist. Many Atheïsts cannot explain why, for example, there are physics laws and what created the first atoms. These can only be explained by accepting that there are concepts in this world, humans cannot comprehend. I accept the fact, that there are things that cannot be explained. One way of explaining how these 'unexplainable' events happened is religion.

I've always been fascinated by religion. However there are certain 'issues' that prevent me from believing in (your) God. Is there any chance you could try to persuade me from these following issues? Possibly one by one.

1. Many religions tell me that when I don't believe in their god, I will burn in Hell (or get punished). They tell me I'm denying Gods Love and that I'm unthankful that Christ sacrified his life and that I'm selfish for doing that. If I turn a Christian, all other religions say I'm ignorant and will burn in Hell. And if I turn Muslim many christians will tell me the same. How would a agnost know which 'God' is the real one? What makes Christianity the truth and Islam (or any other religion) not the truth?

My problem point is: It's not fair to punish agnosts and other believers, while they WOULD believe in the true God if they knew which one was real. Every theist is saying that "you have to keep searching and eventually you'll find that X is the true God!". The fact is, very religion says this epeople who keep searching and up being Pagan or any other religion. How is it their fault when they honestly believe they are believing the right God? It's not like their actively trying to be evil.


2. It's a fact that the religion you believe in is highly dependent on where you've been raised. Most people in the US are Christians and most people in Iran are Muslims. Knowing that the religion you believe in is highly influenced by your parents and surroundings, how can you blame a Muslim for being a Muslim? And how can you blame a Atheist for being Atheist, when they have been told all life that what they believe is the truth. I just seems unfair of God to 'punish' these people.

3. Similar to 1, what makes you think the Bible is the truth and Qu'ran isn't?

4. Why does God thinks it's so important we believe in him? Why can't we be good people and go to heaven, regardless of whether we believe in Him? Many Christians seem to think that when atheists/agnosts don't believe in God, that they also actively OPPOSE Him. That isn't true, we don't 'oppose' God. The primary reason they don't believe in God, is just because they don't see enough evidence. Not because we support Satan (we don't believe in Satan either).

5. Why doesn't God make it more clear which God is the REAL one? This is the REAL issue for me. If God thinks it's so important, why doesn't he just SHOW himself.

Right now I see God as very cruel (sorry if this may sound offensive, feel free to correct me when it's not true). He's allowing multiple religions on this planet, each very similar to each other. All religions claim they are the 'right' one. There are many religions with very large numbers of followers, so number of followers can't be used to see which religions is the real one. He could EASILY (since he's all-powerful and all-knowing) clarify to the humans which religion is the correct one. Yet he decides to TORTURE every single nonbeliever/false believer for ETERNITY, after he knowingly kept all these persons oblivious. Some Christians/Muslims say he doesn't keep us oblivious and all the signs are around us, but ALL religions say this. How could a agnost possibly know which is the real one? Trust me, if he would give me more evident 'signs' that He exists, I WOULD believe in him. I just want to choose the right religion if it exists, but he has to make it more evident. Many people do NOT know they are choosing a wrong religion. They might have been persuaded by the devil or their surroundings, honestly thinking it is God and honestly thinking they are doing good. Why punish these people for eternity when this mistake has been caused by the Devil or the people surrounding you?

I refer to myself as a Christian Agnostic. I do not believe the Bible is the inerrant word of God. I do not believe in Satan or evil spirits. I do believe in a Creator that is loving and kind and will provide some of us with eternal existence, if we respond to the love of God by loving each other and being compassionate to the needs of each other. Jesus taught this in Matt 25:31 and following and in the story of the Good Samaritan and elsewhere. I don't believe it is our responsibility to identify the correct religion. I don't think there is a correct religion. I think you have indicated you are listening to what God has written on your heart. I believe God writes on every human heart; and we are without excuse when we harm or mistreat or fail to care for or help each other. One of the more surprising things to me is to find how many Christians agree with me on most of this.

 

[FreeinChrist]

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[drich0150]

Hey everyone,

First let me introduce myself. I'm a agnost and raised in the Netherlands in a atheist/agnost environment. Sorry if I make any grammar mistakes, English isn't my native language. I've been an agnost in the sense, that I accept that there is a possibility that God(s) may or may not exist. Many Atheïsts cannot explain why, for example, there are physics laws and what created the first atoms. These can only be explained by accepting that there are concepts in this world, humans cannot comprehend. I accept the fact, that there are things that cannot be explained. One way of explaining how these 'unexplainable' events happened is religion.

I've always been fascinated by religion. However there are certain 'issues' that prevent me from believing in (your) God. Is there any chance you could try to persuade me from these following issues? Possibly one by one.

1. Many religions tell me that when I don't believe in their god, I will burn in Hell (or get punished). They tell me I'm denying Gods Love and that I'm unthankful that Christ scarified his life and that I'm selfish for doing that. If I turn a Christian, all other religions say I'm ignorant and will burn in Hell. And if I turn Muslim many Christians will tell me the same. How would a agnost know which 'God' is the real one?

You ask God to show you, you seek Him in every aspect of your life and you repeat this process till you find what you have been looking for..

What makes Christianity the truth and Islam (or any other religion) not the truth?

God.

My problem point is: It's not fair to punish agnosts and other believers, while they WOULD believe in the true God if they knew which one was real.

They do not know because they do not ask or seek.

Every theist is saying that "you have to keep searching and eventually you'll find that X is the true God!". The fact is, very religion says this epeople who keep searching and up being Pagan or any other religion.

actually no not every religion does. Most say you will find a higher calling or sense of spirituality, none offer a personal relationship with God.

How is it their fault when they honestly believe they are believing the right God?

How do you know why others worship the way they worship? If you do not know how can you say they honestly worship believing in god?

It's not like their actively trying to be evil.

Most worship their God as an affront to the God of other religions. For instance if the God of the universe is not the God of the bible I do not want anything to do with Him. I worship the God of the bible exclusively and do not want any part of any other "gods."

2. It's a fact that the religion you believe in is highly dependent on where you've been raised.

Religion has nothing to do with relationship. It is completely possible to be a Christian by name and not know God. (Mt7)

Most people in the US are Christians and most people in Iran are Muslims. Knowing that the religion you believe in is highly influenced by your parents and surroundings, how can you blame a Muslim for being a Muslim?

Not me God.

And how can you blame a Atheist for being Atheist,

Again not me God.

when they have been told all life that what they believe is the truth. I just seems unfair of God to 'punish' these people.

Why?
Because God should let us do what ever we want so long as we are sincere? What if I wanted to sincerely become a serial killer? What if I thought it was a form of worship to God? (it's happened before) Should I be punished for my sincere beliefs?

3. Similar to 1, what makes you think the Bible is the truth and Qu'ran isn't?

full fill prophesy and promises.

4. Why does God thinks it's so important we believe in him?

Because He said so.

Why can't we be good people and go to heaven, regardless of whether we believe in Him?

Because God tells us none are good enough. all of your best efforts are like dirty rags (the modern equivalent is used toilet paper) to God.

Many Christians seem to think that when atheists/agnosts don't believe in God, that they also actively OPPOSE Him. That isn't true, we don't 'oppose' God. The primary reason they don't believe in God, is just because they don't see enough evidence. Not because we support Satan (we don't believe in Satan either).

Then they do not Ask Seek or knock as outlined in Luke 11.
We have been promised in that chapter if we ask seek and knock as outlined in Luke 11 we will personally get all of the evidence we will ever need.

5. Why doesn't God make it more clear which God is the REAL one?

He does when you ask seek and knock like in Luke 11

This is the REAL issue for me. If God thinks it's so important, why doesn't he just SHOW himself.

If the most "important" person in your country asks you to contact him via a series of protocols, do you demand that he "show himself" to you on your terms? If you did do you think the most important person in your country would humble himself to your demand? Then why would an almighty God? Who are you to demand that the master and commander of all of creation "show himself? to you?

Right now I see God as very cruel (sorry if this may sound offensive, feel free to correct me when it's not true).

He's allowing multiple religions on this planet, each very similar to each other. All religions claim they are the 'right' one.

actually no. They all claim personal gain and reward. In Christianity you sign up to be a servant/slave.

There are many religions with very large numbers of followers, so number of followers can't be used to see which religions is the real one. He could EASILY (since he's all-powerful and all-knowing) clarify to the humans which religion is the correct one.

What if he did this already and all anyone who really really wanted to know is to simply ask seek and knock as outlined in Luke 11.

Yet he decides to TORTURE every single nonbeliever/false believer for ETERNITY, after he knowingly kept all these persons oblivious. Some Christians/Muslims say he doesn't keep us oblivious and all the signs are around us, but ALL religions say this.

Actually no again they do not. Christianity promises that a measure of God to indwell you so you may have discernment.

How could a agnost possibly know which is the real one?

You can't by design. You must do things His way not the agnostic way.

Trust me, if he would give me more evident 'signs' that He exists, I WOULD believe in him. I just want to choose the right religion if it exists, but he has to make it more evident. Many people do NOT know they are choosing a wrong religion.

So you are holding your faith hostage for a hand full of magic tricks? What if God does not want you to worship some great magician? What if He wants you to worship the all powerful God, and demands you approach Him like everyone else He has commanded?

They might have been persuaded by the devil or their surroundings, honestly thinking it is God and honestly thinking they are doing good. Why punish these people for eternity when this mistake has been caused by the Devil or the people surrounding you?

[/quote]Then rest assured that they will be judged according to what they have been given to know about Christ.

 

[razeontherock]

1. Many religions tell me that when I don't believe in their god, I will burn in Hell (or get punished).

My problem point is: It's not fair to punish agnosts and other believers, while they WOULD believe in the true God if they knew which one was real. Every theist is saying that "you have to keep searching and eventually you'll find that X is the true God!". The fact is, very religion says this epeople who keep searching and up being Pagan or any other religion. How is it their fault when they honestly believe they are believing the right God? It's not like their actively trying to be evil.

Hi, and welcome to CF!

The concept here, is that God (by any name, in any religion) is a Just Judge. He looks on our "heart." He knows our motives, our intents, and our thoughts. Which can be a terrifying proposition!

My point, is that you have to actually hear the Gospel, before you can reject it. Do you think you know what the Gospel is?

3. Similar to 1, what makes you think the Bible is the truth and Qu'ran isn't?

There is no aspect of Christianity that prevents us from finding Truth, wherever it may be found. Some basic truths are conveyed in the Koran, and some poetry, and some beauty. I can't see it as comparable in any way, to the greater revelation in the Bible. I think it's possible that it may have been very revealing to the people in 7th century Arabia. (I also think it's possible it may have been largely or entirely the work of a man scrambling for power)

4. Why does God thinks it's so important we believe in him? Why can't we be good people and go to heaven, regardless of whether we believe in Him?

I don't know why, but God counts Faith as righteousness. We can't be "good," by His standards. We can't earn our way into His Presence.

5. Why doesn't God make it more clear which God is the REAL one? This is the REAL issue for me. If God thinks it's so important, why doesn't he just SHOW himself.

I declare unto you that there is One God, maker of all that is, seen and unseen. Various religions conceive of Him differently, but He remains the same. You notice that God does not show Himself? This is humility.

Right now I see God as very cruel (sorry if this may sound offensive, feel free to correct me when it's not true). He's allowing multiple religions on this planet, each very similar to each other. All religions claim they are the 'right' one.

Not everyone claims they themselves are right. Not everyone claims to have "the one true way." Even Jesus, who did, and has the right to - do any of us really know exactly what that means? I tell you we do not. We share the human condition, and are on this journey together.

He could EASILY (since he's all-powerful and all-knowing) clarify to the humans which religion is the correct one.

Not one time did Jesus say anything about following religion. I see no evidence that He came to establish a new religion. I think religion is something He's not so terribly concerned with.

Yet he decides to TORTURE every single nonbeliever/false believer for ETERNITY, after he knowingly kept all these persons oblivious.

This is a false concept. Yes, I know you could have heard this from Christians. It's still wrong

He is our Good Shepherd. A good shepherd doesn't push his sheep over a cliff into an eternal barbecue!

Some Christians/Muslims say he doesn't keep us oblivious and all the signs are around us, but ALL religions say this. How could a agnost possibly know which is the real one?

In English we have a saying: 'X marks the spot.' Where various ideologies intersect, it tells me there's something to it.

Trust me, if he would give me more evident 'signs' that He exists, I WOULD believe in him. I just want to choose the right religion if it exists, but he has to make it more evident.

You are describing what a Christian would call "seeking God." We have some great Promises, including "seek and you will find." I encourage you to look straight past religion, and look to God Himself. Where Christianity is unique, is that we have a better revelation; He came to us in the form of a human, Jesus of Nazareth. He was made both Lord and Christ, having been perfected by sufferings. He conquered death for each and every one of us, and this great mystery is being celebrated by the Church worldwide, all week long ...

 

[fschmidt]

Hi Firewolx, I am not Christian, I follow the Old Testament. You may be interested in Open Karaite - Many Paths to God . I will try to answer your questions from an Old Testament perspective.

1. Many religions tell me that when I don't believe in their god, I will burn in Hell (or get punished).

The Old Testament never says this. It only says to obey God's laws.

2. It's a fact that the religion you believe in is highly dependent on where you've been raised.

People raised in an evil culture have a harder time being good, that's true. If you were raised a Nazi, you may well remain a Nazi, but that doesn't make it forgivable. Most of the Old Testament law is simple moral common sense. If you are a moral person, you can transcend whatever immoral culture you were brought up in.

3. Similar to 1, what makes you think the Bible is the truth and Qu'ran isn't?

Nothing.

4. Why does God thinks it's so important we believe in him?

According to the Old Testament, He doesn't. The Old Testament never asks you to believe in God, only to follow moral law.

5. Why doesn't God make it more clear which God is the REAL one?

The God of Christianity, Islam, and Judaism are all the same God.

I hope Christians here don't mind me presenting the Old Testament answers to these questions.

 

[razeontherock]

I hope Christians here don't mind me presenting the Old Testament answers to these questions.

I certainly don't! I would merely point out that in the context of the OT as I read it, the assumption is made that the reader believes in G-d to begin with, and that is why it doesn't tell us specifically to believe. It assumes the atheist will have no interest.

 

[fschmidt]

II would merely point out that in the context of the OT as I read it, the assumption is made that the reader believes in G-d to begin with, and that is why it doesn't tell us specifically to believe.

You are probably right that the OT assumed that the reader believes in God. But I don't think that is the only reason that it doesn't tell you what to believe. The emphasis on belief (truth) really comes from Plato and this entered Christianity through Paul who preached in Greece. When the OT was written, belief was less important than morality and behavior, and this is reflected in the OT.

It assumes the atheist will have no interest.

Atheists like to define themselves by their lack of belief in God, but this is a lie. Atheism is really anti-God. The way that atheists define themselves is sort of like North Korea calling itself "the Democratic People's Republic of Korea". Atheism isn't really about belief, it is about hostility to the values of God. I used to consider myself an atheist until I joined an atheist forum and said that I liked the OT for which I was immediately banned. This made me realize what atheism is really about, so of course I no longer consider myself an atheist.

 

[hedrick]

Atheists like to define themselves by their lack of belief in God, but this is a lie. Atheism is really anti-God. The way that atheists define themselves is sort of like North Korea calling itself "the Democratic People's Republic of Korea". Atheism isn't really about belief, it is about hostility to the values of God.

There are atheists and atheists. There are surely atheists who would be happy to find out that God exists, and who are sympathetic with Christian principles.

 

[Believe the Impossible]

I certainly don't! I would merely point out that in the context of the OT as I read it, the assumption is made that the reader believes in G-d to begin with, and that is why it doesn't tell us specifically to believe. It assumes the atheist will have no interest.

I would also like to add, Raze, that our lives are all about a choice. God presents His creation, its history (warts and all) and it is up to us to choose to accept it and Him; He desires those who desire Him. He isn't about insisting, making or ordering us to believe, hence the whole premise of free-will.

I call that respect, just as a parent would have to respect the decisions of their children even if they don't like the choices that they make. Deep down parents are always hoping that they will 'come around' and they continue to love them from afar. Hating what they do does not take away the love one has for them, but any good parent will inform them of the dangers of their decisions even if they may hate them for it; one hopes they will eventually realize parents mean the best for them, that they are loved, but that is not always the case.

 

[elman]

Acts 10:34-35
New International Version (NIV)

34 Then Peter began to speak: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism 35 but accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right.

I think this is divine truth from God.

 

[salida]

Hey everyone,

First let me introduce myself. I'm a agnost and raised in the Netherlands in a atheist/agnost environment. Sorry if I make any grammar mistakes, english isn't my native language. I've been an agnost in the sense, that I accept that there is a possibility that God(s) may or may not exist. Many Atheïsts cannot explain why, for example, there are physics laws and what created the first atoms. These can only be explained by accepting that there are concepts in this world, humans cannot comprehend. I accept the fact, that there are things that cannot be explained. One way of explaining how these 'unexplainable' events happened is religion.

I've always been fascinated by religion. However there are certain 'issues' that prevent me from believing in (your) God. Is there any chance you could try to persuade me from these following issues? Possibly one by one.

1. Many religions tell me that when I don't believe in their god, I will burn in Hell (or get punished). They tell me I'm denying Gods Love and that I'm unthankful that Christ sacrified his life and that I'm selfish for doing that. If I turn a Christian, all other religions say I'm ignorant and will burn in Hell. And if I turn Muslim many christians will tell me the same. How would a agnost know which 'God' is the real one? What makes Christianity the truth and Islam (or any other religion) not the truth?

My problem point is: It's not fair to punish agnosts and other believers, while they WOULD believe in the true God if they knew which one was real. Every theist is saying that "you have to keep searching and eventually you'll find that X is the true God!". The fact is, very religion says this epeople who keep searching and up being Pagan or any other religion. How is it their fault when they honestly believe they are believing the right God? It's not like their actively trying to be evil.


2. It's a fact that the religion you believe in is highly dependent on where you've been raised. Most people in the US are Christians and most people in Iran are Muslims. Knowing that the religion you believe in is highly influenced by your parents and surroundings, how can you blame a Muslim for being a Muslim? And how can you blame a Atheist for being Atheist, when they have been told all life that what they believe is the truth. I just seems unfair of God to 'punish' these people.

3. Similar to 1, what makes you think the Bible is the truth and Qu'ran isn't?

4. Why does God thinks it's so important we believe in him? Why can't we be good people and go to heaven, regardless of whether we believe in Him? Many Christians seem to think that when atheists/agnosts don't believe in God, that they also actively OPPOSE Him. That isn't true, we don't 'oppose' God. The primary reason they don't believe in God, is just because they don't see enough evidence. Not because we support Satan (we don't believe in Satan either).

5. Why doesn't God make it more clear which God is the REAL one? This is the REAL issue for me. If God thinks it's so important, why doesn't he just SHOW himself.

Right now I see God as very cruel (sorry if this may sound offensive, feel free to correct me when it's not true). He's allowing multiple religions on this planet, each very similar to each other. All religions claim they are the 'right' one. There are many religions with very large numbers of followers, so number of followers can't be used to see which religions is the real one. He could EASILY (since he's all-powerful and all-knowing) clarify to the humans which religion is the correct one. Yet he decides to TORTURE every single nonbeliever/false believer for ETERNITY, after he knowingly kept all these persons oblivious. Some Christians/Muslims say he doesn't keep us oblivious and all the signs are around us, but ALL religions say this. How could a agnost possibly know which is the real one? Trust me, if he would give me more evident 'signs' that He exists, I WOULD believe in him. I just want to choose the right religion if it exists, but he has to make it more evident. Many people do NOT know they are choosing a wrong religion. They might have been persuaded by the devil or their surroundings, honestly thinking it is God and honestly thinking they are doing good. Why punish these people for eternity when this mistake has been caused by the Devil or the people surrounding you?

1-Im a christian by faith and intellect reasons. All religions can't be true because they are all fundamentally different. So, who is true? When I compare the bible to other religious books, the bible has attributes that could only be written by God.
This is the tip of the iceberg.The bible has certain characteristics to conclude it could only be written by God. No other religious book does this.
Visit: www.TheBibleProofBook.com, (you will need acrobat reader for this), read The Evidence That Demands A Verdict by Josh McDowell a former agnostic- and Examine the Evidence by Muncaster a former athiest/The Case for Christ and The Real Jesus by Lee Strobel a former athiest.

100 fulfilled Bible prophecies
Reasons To Believe : Fulfilled Prophecy: Evidence for the Reliability of the Bible (science website)
Eyewitnesses to the Resurrection of Jesus Christ
Apologetics Study - Evidence For The Christian Faith
Bible Reliability: M-A-P-S to Guide You through Bible Reliability

Historical Accuracy(bible is the most accurate history book)
The bible is loaded with historical statements concerning events hundreds of years ago and has not
been proven incorrect in any.
(Bible compared to other ancient documents):
New Testament starts - at 25 years between original and first surviving copies
Homer - starts at 500 years
Demosthenes - at 1400 years
Plato - at 1200 years

Number of Manuscript Copies-New Testament - 5,686/Homer - 643/Demosthenes - 200/
Plato - 7/Caesar -10

2-I know people in a christian home who are athiest and their parents were christians who practiced what they preached and vice versa.
Acts 17:26-27
26 From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. 27 God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us.
(People are born into a certain area, etc. so that their chance of knowing God is at its highest).

3-same answer as 1.

4-Good enough? Gods standards is light years above our standards. Its not about being good or bad natured but accepting that one spiritual cure from a fallen world. If a dr. had just one cure for you physically, would you accept it?
Are you a good person? The Good Test

5-He has made it clear.
Ro 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse.

 

[salida]

Also,

Internal Evidence (prophesies confirmed within bible)

Life of Christ
The Tribe of Judah, Gen 49:10 - Luke 3:23-28
(Genesis was written 4004 BC to 1689 BC)
(Lukes time period 60-70 AD)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Royal Line of David, Jer 23:5 - Matt 1:1
(Jeremiah 760 to 698 BC)/(Matthew 60 - 70 AD)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Born of a Virgin, Isaiah 7:14 - Matt 1:18-23
(Isaiah 760 to 698 BC)/(Matthew 60 - 70 AD)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Rise of Empires
In the book of Daniel, Chapter 2 - four kingdoms are described in the interpretation of a dream of
Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon: Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greek - Daniel 8:21, 10:20/and the fourth
great kingdom to follow- part iron and clay-which is the Roman Empire. During this empire Christ came and his church was established.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Historical Accuracy
The bible is loaded with historical statements concerning events hundreds of years ago and has not
been proven incorrect in any.
(Bible compared to other ancient documents):
New Testament starts - at 25 years between original and first surviving copies
Homer - starts at 500 years
Demosthenes - at 1400 years
Plato - at 1200 years
Caesar - at 1000 years
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Number of Manuscript Copies-New Testament - 5,686/Homer - 643/Demosthenes - 200/
Plato - 7/Caesar -10
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Consistency/Written by God
Written by at least 40 men over a period of time exceeding 1400 years and has no internal inconsistencies.

It claims to be spoken by God, 2 Timothy 3:16-17. No other religious book makes such claim.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
External Evidences (prophesies outside bible)
These cities were prophesied to be destroyed and never built again.
Nineveh - Nahum 1:10, 3:7,15, Zephaniah 2:13-14
Babylon - Isaiah 13:1-22
Tyre - Ezekiel 26:1-28
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bible before Science- He hangs the earth on nothing-Job 26:7/Earth is a sphere-Isaiah 40:22
Air has weight-Job 28:25/Gravity-Job 26:7, Job 38:31-33/Winds blow in cyclones, Eccl 1:6
(Job was written at least 1000 BC; some scholars think 3000 BC)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Documents that Prove Bible is True
Gilgamesh Epic, The Sumerian King List, Mari Tablets, Babylonian Chronicles

Archeological Finds
Excavations of Ur, Location of Zoar, Ziggurats and the foundation of Tower of Babel

 

[FutureAndAHope]

I had a look at your questions and I will answer them the best I can. I will do two things first show you why I believe, I will give you my evidence for God. Then I will answer one of your questions which should help clarify things.

I believe in God due to experiences I have had with God. See a full list of these experiences at Know God Personally. I have included one story off the site here to give you an idea of what I mean by experiences.

One morning I got up and walked into the hall and I heard a voice that I believed was God say "How would you like to be stabbed in the Valley". The Valley was known as the rough end of town, and the voice scared me a little, I wondered if I had done something to offend God. I had planned to go down to the Valley to ask people out to church as was my habit at the time. In the end I went anyway regardless of the fear. I walked up to the first person I met and asked him if he would like to go out to church. He said to me "I am an atheist, I don't believe in God". I just said "fine", but hoped to change his mind. He then proceeded to unbutton his shirt and showed me scar marks up and down his chest and stomach. He said to me, "I was attacked by a knife wielding man in the Valley some time ago and spent months recovering in hospital, How could God allow that to happen to me". Then I knew why God had said in the morning "How would I like to be stabbed?". God understood this man, but had a good plan for him. Some weeks latter this man came out to church and became a Christian.

Now for your question. You said what about people of different faiths, or no faith, is God not unfair to punish them if they believe the wrong thing, or don't get a chance to see the truth due to where they live.

For this question I will share a true story which can be found at Ian McCormack - Heaven Hell and the Box Jellyfish. It is a story of a man who had an NDE. He died and came back to life again. His experience was that as he was dying God himself came to him and showed him the LORD's prayer. Specifically the part forgive us our sins as we forgive those who sin against us. God asked them man to forgive those who had wronged him in his life. When the man did God took him up into heaven and told him that he was now a bornagain Christian. God then sent him back to his body and he came alive again in a hospital. So from this story we see that God can talk to people as they are dying and clear things up with them, they don't need a human witness. So God is not unfair to ignore people of other faiths, this man was an athiest at the time he died. You will notice in this story God used the bible in bringing the man to salvation, so that is how he does it today, using the bible. We just need to be open to follow the bible based upon experiences that people have with God. We will then given time have experiences of our own to share.