A verse about money [questions]

[timewerx]

I have questions on this verse. Please patiently read to the end, thanks!

Luke 16:9
I tell you, use worldly wealth to gain friends for yourselves, so that when it is gone, you will be welcomed into eternal dwellings.

I understand the first part of that verse, "make friends" with money. Now it doesn't mean we "buy" worldly friends by giving them expensive gifts, inviting them to exclusive parties. Nope. It means we get ourselves REAL friends by helping the poor, those who could not help themselves or those who could not return the favor. The poor and the weak or helpless.

The 2nd part of the verse is a big mystery to me: so that when it is gone, you will be welcomed into eternal dwellings.

The verse Luke 16:9 comes after the Parable of the Shrewd Manager. Summing up this parable, the shrewd manager will soon lose his job. At the fear of losing his job and becoming homeless, the shrewd manager tried to gain favor from his boss's clients by canceling some of their debts so they may offer him a place to stay or live when he loses his job and his accommodation.

In essence, the shrewd manager tries to win friends by canceling their debts so that if he loses his home from losing his job, one them might give him place to stay instead of becoming homeless.

In Luke 16:9. you make real friends by helping the poor and the helpless/weak until you run out of money or until you lose your means of making money. But the poor will not be giving you eternal dwellings **THEY** will.

Who are **THEY**??

And we can't reach eternal dwellings until we die or at least that's how I think it works.

What gives?? If we lose all our money or lose our job helping the poor we fall dead and reach the "eternal dwellings"??

I've searched elsewhere with Google most popular interpretation says, "when we die" not "when we lose our money or lose our main means of income". They can't see it the way of losing money (influence of the false Prosperity Gospel me thinks). Yet, if I try see the context right after the Parable of the Shrewd Manager, the story about the rich young ruler, and the Greek transliteration, it clearly refers to money going gone, not our lives.

But still doesn't answer my question. If a real Christian loses all their money or lose their means of income + money from helping/saving the poor, are they going to die immediately OR it only means if they die broke, broke from helping the poor, they will be allowed into the Kingdom of Heaven? It doesn't mean they will die right after they lose all their money, they may die much much later after they become broke finanically. Is that what it means?? Thanks!

 

[FireDragon76]

It helps to understand the dynamics of an honor/shame culture. The unjust steward/shrewd manager brought honor to his employer because he made his employer look generous and magnanimous by cancelling the debts of the debtors.

"welcome you into eternal dwellings" means that you will be repaid for kindness from those who cannot repay you now, in the world to come.

There is no requirement that a Christian be broke financially. Being generous doesn't mean being broke, necessarily. A person can be broke for all sorts of reasons, not all of them good ones.

 

[honey badger]

first off there is no word they in the Greek text ...

the passage speaks to the same as when Jesus told the young man to go sell all he had, as it does when Jesus said "For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it."

wealth of unrighteousness relates to worldly knowledge as in knowledge gained by way of two fruits of a tree ...when this reasoning ceases as in comes to an end we are welcomed into the kingdom and this kingdom one and the same as the soul we find by losing it ...

 

[timewerx]

It helps to understand the dynamics of an honor/shame culture. The unjust steward/shrewd manager brought honor to his employer because he made his employer look generous and magnanimous by cancelling their debts.

Thanks.

Actually, the shrewd manager did it to save himself in Luke 16:3. The manager expected the worst to come - getting fired from his job and losing all his money so he tried to make friends with their clients by canceling some of their debts so they may welcome him into their dwellings when his money runs out.

Luke 16:9 is for all of us and instead of being welcomed into people's homes, we are welcomed to enter the Kingdom of Heaven to live with our Lord, the "Eternal dwellings"

There is no requirement that a Christian be broke financially. Being generous doesn't mean being broke, necessarily. A person can be broke for all sorts of reasons, not all of them good ones.

True, but what if you end up being broke for helping the poor?

The wisdom of investment is "invest in the winners" or invest in those who have the potential to win. If you're being extravagantly generous to the poor, to people who can't help themselves and the weak, the least, you are essentially investing in the losers. It's the opposite wisdom of good investment. You're investing to lose money, rather than to gain it.

You need money to make money. Even if all your income is coming from employment, you need some of the money from your income to meet your needs, for comfort, for leisure. All these things will make you an effective and efficient worker. Essentially to enable you handle greater workload or responsibilities.

But deprive yourself many of those things by not having enough money for yourself to afford those things by using your money to help the helpless then your work performance will suffer. Eventually, you won't look good to your employer and they may let you go.

If you do get broke, what then. "You will be welcomed into eternal dwellings"

Does this mean you die right there or it just means, "you are now welcome anytime in the eternal dwellings". You can die much much later and you'll still be received in the eternal dwellings.

Or does living among the helpless or the homeless is essentially the "eternal dwelling"? The "Kingdom of God" is in the midst of you. Was Jesus talking about the poor/helpless? Jesus may also be referring to Himself but since whatever we do to the least of our brothers and sisters, we do unto the Lord. How we treat the poor is also how we treat the Lord.

The small gate, the narrow road that leads to life??

 

[FireDragon76]

Thanks.

Actually, the shrewd manager did it to save himself in Luke 16:3. The manager expected the worst to come - getting fired from his job and losing all his money so he tried to make friends with their clients by canceling some of their debts so they may welcome him into their dwellings when his money runs out.

True, but he was still praised for his actions.

In Jesus basic teaching here and elsewhere, everyone owes a debt to God we cannot repay, just like in the case of the unjust steward, we are living off somebody else's good pleasure and are unprofitable servants. So the proper response to that, is to be generous ourselves, just as God is generous with us.

True, but what if you end up being broke for helping the poor?

As my pastor used to tell me, nobody can force you to be a martyr. If a religious figure tries to do that, then they are abusing their authority.

Beyond that, it's an issue of individual discernment.

You need money to make money. Even if all your income is coming from employment, you need some of the money from your income to meet your needs, for comfort, for leisure. All these things will make you an effective and efficient worker. Essentially to enable you handle greater workload or responsibilities.

It's not just about money as a unit of exchange, it's also about our time, talents and skills, and so on. All the resources available to us.

Does this mean you die right there or it just means, "you are now welcome anytime in the eternal dwellings". You can die much much later and you'll still be received in the eternal dwellings.

Yes.

Some look for extraordinary religious works, but often avoid doing the simple things that are right in front of them.

 

[timewerx]

first off there is no word they in the Greek text ...

the passage speaks to the same as when Jesus told the young man to go sell all he had, as it does when Jesus said "For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it."

wealth of unrighteousness relates to worldly knowledge as in knowledge gained by way of two fruits of a tree ...when this reasoning ceases as in comes to an end we are welcomed into the kingdom and this kingdom one and the same as the soul we find by losing it ...

I don't think the "wealth of unrighteousness" refers to worldly knowledge.

You don't run out of knowledge by using it to make friends. It just doesn't make sense.

The message is repeated elsewhere in the Gospel a few times in one form or another and every time it involves material wealth, literally.

 

[honey badger]

I don't think the "wealth of unrighteousness" refers to worldly knowledge.

You don't run out of knowledge by using it to make friends. It just doesn't make sense.

The message is repeated elsewhere in the Gospel a few times in one form or another and every time it involves material wealth, literally.

It wasn't the wealth of the rich young ruler but the perception that his wealth created in his mind which bound him.

F

 

[Maria Billingsley]

I have questions on this verse. Please patiently read to the end, thanks!

Luke 16:9
I tell you, use worldly wealth to gain friends for yourselves, so that when it is gone, you will be welcomed into eternal dwellings.

I understand the first part of that verse, "make friends" with money. Now it doesn't mean we "buy" worldly friends by giving them expensive gifts, inviting them to exclusive parties. Nope. It means we get ourselves REAL friends by helping the poor, those who could not help themselves or those who could not return the favor. The poor and the weak or helpless.

The 2nd part of the verse is a big mystery to me: so that when it is gone, you will be welcomed into eternal dwellings.

The verse Luke 16:9 comes after the Parable of the Shrewd Manager. Summing up this parable, the shrewd manager will soon lose his job. At the fear of losing his job and becoming homeless, the shrewd manager tried to gain favor from his boss's clients by canceling some of their debts so they may offer him a place to stay or live when he loses his job and his accommodation.

In essence, the shrewd manager tries to win friends by canceling their debts so that if he loses his home from losing his job, one them might give him place to stay instead of becoming homeless.

In Luke 16:9. you make real friends by helping the poor and the helpless/weak until you run out of money or until you lose your means of making money. But the poor will not be giving you eternal dwellings **THEY** will.

Who are **THEY**??

And we can't reach eternal dwellings until we die or at least that's how I think it works.

What gives?? If we lose all our money or lose our job helping the poor we fall dead and reach the "eternal dwellings"??

I've searched elsewhere with Google most popular interpretation says, "when we die" not "when we lose our money or lose our main means of income". They can't see it the way of losing money (influence of the false Prosperity Gospel me thinks). Yet, if I try see the context right after the Parable of the Shrewd Manager, the story about the rich young ruler, and the Greek transliteration, it clearly refers to money going gone, not our lives.

But still doesn't answer my question. If a real Christian loses all their money or lose their means of income + money from helping/saving the poor, are they going to die immediately OR it only means if they die broke, broke from helping the poor, they will be allowed into the Kingdom of Heaven? It doesn't mean they will die right after they lose all their money, they may die much much later after they become broke finanically. Is that what it means?? Thanks!

I could be all wrong about this and rightly so, it is a difficult parable to understand. But reading the entire passage helps and the final conclusion that Jesus Christ tells the Pharisees is this:

He said to them, “You are the ones who justify yourselves in the eyes of others, but God knows your hearts. What people value highly is detestable in God’s sight.

I do believe "eternal dwellings" are not the Kingdom of God but rather hell.

Blessings

 

[timewerx]

It wasn't the wealth of the rich young ruler but the perception that his wealth created in his mind which bound him.

F

Did you mean if the rich young ruler was in the right state of mind he would have done exactly what Jesus asked?

That is to sell his possessions, give the proceeds to the poor and then follow Jesus?

 

[timewerx]

He said to them, “You are the ones who justify yourselves in the eyes of others, but God knows your hearts. What people value highly is detestable in God’s sight.

I do believe "eternal dwellings" are not the Kingdom of God but rather hell.

Blessings

That's probably the strangest reply I read so far.

Why would Jesus tell us to do something that will send us to hell? Doesn't make sense.

Jesus was referring to money in that passage because He did mentioned in the previous verse that the Pharisees loved (highly valued) money. And the half of the chapter was about using money to "gain friends".

It was money that the Pharisees highly valued that would also be detestable in God's sight.

But what would happen if we get broke from helping the helpless and making disciples out of them. Do we fall dead and go to heaven as what Luke 16:9 sounded like? We pass the test and gain access to the Kingdom of God when we die later, like much much later, of very old age?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

That's probably the strangest reply I read so far.

Why would Jesus tell us to do something that will send us to hell? Doesn't make sense.

Jesus was referring to money in that passage because He did mentioned in the previous verse that the Pharisees loved (highly valued) money. And the half of the chapter was about using money to "gain friends".

It was money that the Pharisees highly valued that would also be detestable in God's sight.

But what would happen if we get broke from helping the helpless and making disciples out of them. Do we fall dead and go to heaven as what Luke 16:9 sounded like? We pass the test and gain access to the Kingdom of God when we die later, like much much later, of very old age?

He was talking to the Pharisees and the parable has to do with such people, unrighteous. Like I said, it is my humble opinion as strange as it may be to you.
Blessings

 

[honey badger]

Did you mean if the rich young ruler was in the right state of mind he would have done exactly what Jesus asked?

That is to sell his possessions, give the proceeds to the poor and then follow Jesus?

yes

as a side note ... we can do nothing of ours self ... much like our brother who accepted this even to his cross ...

 

[timewerx]

He was talking to the Pharisees and the parable has to do with such people, unrighteous. Like I said, it is my humble opinion as strange as it may be to you.
Blessings

Actually, Jesus was addressing His disciples with the parable. It's literally mentioned in Luke 16:1.

Although I don't entirely disagree with your understanding that Jesus also meant it for the Pharisees who happened to be nearby and heard everything which means Jesus is probably talking in a loud voice and did mean to have the Pharisees hear his preaching as well.

But Luke 16:8 which came after the parable, Jesus was criticizing the believers (not the Pharisees).

He said in that verse that worldly people (including the Pharisees) are "wiser" for working to gain favors from other people.

(While believers - "the people of the light" are not doing anything to gain any favors from the Lord by doing what He wants)

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Actually, Jesus was addressing His disciples with the parable. It's literally mentioned in Luke 16:1.

Though he was speaking to his disciples the Pharisees were the ones who were insulted by His parable. His disciples said nothing. It is not too far fetched that He was directing His parable directly to them as He did explain what it meant only to them and they expressed contempt. He even indicated that the parable was about them.

14 Now the Pharisees, who were lovers of money, also heard all these things, and they derided Him. 15 And He said to them, “You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is highly esteemed among men is an abomination in the sight of God."

We have to read the entire passage and identify hyperbolic language when Jesus Christ of Nazareth uses it.
Blessings.

I know I am in minority on this interpretation however I find it the most obvious.

 

[timewerx]

I know I am in minority on this interpretation however I find it the most obvious.

You probably just didn't know other verses /teachings are related to Luke 16:9.

For example, Jesus declared salvation to the house of Zacchaeus after he pledged giving away his "unrighteous wealth" (ill-gotten wealth) to the people he cheated and to the poor.

Obviously the poor won't be indifferent to extravagant acts of generosity, you'd have won them as friends.

 

[Diamond7]

Who are **THEY**??

They is anyone that can not repay us. Then our reward is with God. Even when people steal from me. I know God keeps accurate scales and He will return to me what they have taken. All things work together for GOOD for those who love God and are following HIs plan and purpose for them and their life.

Luke 6:38 "Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.”

 

[Diamond7]

after he pledged giving away his "unrighteous wealth" (ill-gotten wealth)

Most everyone gains wealth by hurting others. So most of it is "Ill-gotten". Look at people working in a convenience store. They sell junk food, cigarettes, alcohol. They are not doing any good. Look at the drug companies. They give people soda with corn sweeter, then when the people come down with diabetes, they sell them drugs to treat that so they keep drinking their soda.

They say if we did not do it, someone else would. Then let them do it and suffer the consequences for harming others. We need to do our best to be pure and clean before God. Starting with how we "earn" money.

I just saw where the CEO of GM is making $28,979,570. Everyone that buys a car from them is getting ripped off buying a substandard product so the CEO can stuff their pockets with money.

 

[Yekcidmij]

Most everyone gains wealth by hurting others.

An absurd claim.

Look at people working in a convenience store. They sell junk food, cigarettes, alcohol. They are not doing any good.

They also sell the things that allow people to travel to work (which is probably hurtful by your quantification) or to see family.

I just saw where the CEO of GM is making $28,979,570. Everyone that buys a car from them is getting ripped off buying a substandard product so the CEO can stuff their pockets with money.

Maybe the people buying GM vehicles actually want to buy them and don't think they're substandard or think they're getting appropriate value for the given price?

I'm just glad you don't get to decide for everyone else.

 

[timewerx]

They say if we did not do it, someone else would.

Do you know I actually used to look positively at that saying? As recently as only few years ago.

It's better that we Christians do it even if the job is not 100% honest because if unbelievers did it instead or the evil and corrupt did it instead, things will be a lot worse.

Sounds like a noble teaching at first right?? But then I realize the deceitfulness of wealth. Christians making greater pursuits about wealth ends up getting worse. Wealth ends up corrupting them and not even knowing it.

Prosperity preachers love to tell the stories of the wealth of King Solomon and King David but not giving enough emphasis how their wealth have massively corrupted them. Even David, a man after God's own heart got swayed by wealth. Yet Christians are over confident to think, they can better the man who is after God's own heart at resisting the influences of wealth. Or they've been listening to the prosperity gospel all along, not realizing their church is one.

It makes you wonder if God is actually blessing these people like King David or using wealth to test their character. Remember the scribes, the people who penned the scriptures. The Bible itself questions their righteousness. They may not be always writing the truth but merely their opinion as imperfect and corruptible human being. So did God really blessed Solomon with material wealth or was it simply the scribe's personal opinion? If somebody gave you 100 million dollars gift no strings attached. Everyone would think you're "#blessed". But if the wealth made you worldly, materialistic, start loving things more than God, look at the poor with contempt. Are you actually blessed?

Then let them do it and suffer the consequences for harming others

In the story of the "Rich man and Lazarus" Jesus said the rich man had a good and easy life despite living an unrighteous life.

"Karma" doesn't really work. Ok, sometimes it seems to work and then many occasions it doesn't. Maybe it's just luck and nothing more just like flipping a coin? We hear testimonies in church but what about the others who aren't giving testimonies?

We don't really get the real consequences until the end of our life and that makes being lazy at the Word very dangerous. Because having a "good and easy" life doesn't confirm God's favor but may possibly be the opposite. Scary right?

 

[timewerx]

We need to do our best to be pure and clean before God. Starting with how we "earn" money.

I think in this world when we earn money there's only two kinds of people. Either you're corrupt or you work for corrupt people.

Even if you own a business you have clients, therefore you still work for others and you cannot always choose nor know who you work for.

I think the Parable of the Sower is somewhat related. The vast majority of us belongs to the "Thorns". I myself included. Many would deny this yet it is the truth. If you're still part of the system then you're with the "thorns".