A simple convertion question.

[Brennos]

Im sorry by advance I really dont know where to put what is just a simple question. I find it to fit more in the phylosophy thread but it does not really fit here. Anyway.

Here's a question way less controversial than my other topics.
Simply, what leads someone to become a Christian, how do you go from one belief system to another... ?
And also what in your mind makes christianity a more plausible option than the ones who also claim there single god is the right one ?

Is it simply after all an inside belief, an inside compulsion that drives you to strongly believe, to be sure your god is the one and only ?
Is it based on objective evidence and not so much of a higher spiritual compulsion ?

What do you think leads you to be christian or whatever your belief is, and makes you keep to that belief ?

Tell me I'd be happy to know about all of that ^^.

 

[oi_antz]

Wow, you have asked great questions here, and I thought I understood all this quite well. You are pushing me to think further than I have, with these questions. Thanks!

Im sorry by advance I really dont know where to put what is just a simple question. I find it to fit more in the phylosophy thread but it does not really fit here. Anyway.

Here's a question way less controversial than my other topics.
Simply, what leads someone to become a Christian, how do you go from one belief system to another... ?

These are two different questions. I have seen different motives for choosing to pursue Christianity. It is the motivation that I question when I am involved by someone who is struggling with their faith. Not every motive will produce the same sincerity of faith. For instance, some people choose to be Christian because their friends and family already are, and to opt out would not produce the relationships they actually want to have with those people. Sometimes people will choose to be Christian for a similar reason, but they are already lonely and they are looking to belong to a group of friends. Sometimes people will be motivated by the fear of the unknown, of uncertainty of awareness after death, and where they wish to be sure they are settled with God. Sometimes people might just investigate the facts and find that it makes sense. Then there are those who believe God has actually interacted with them, and they have had a real experience with Him.

The second question is most interesting to me, and suited well to this subforum. I have understood and observed according to that understanding, that a belief is essentially committing to a given set of necessary decisions. So the beliefs we have will cause us to make biased decisions, to ensure that our decisions always support our beliefs. What this suggests is that to change a belief system, one has to become comfortable with choosing to make different decisions than what they presently choose to do. Obviously this is daunting, and when you see people converting and deconverting, you will always observe some process of progression toward making the definitive decision to change from one belief system to another.

And also what in your mind makes christianity a more plausible option than the ones who also claim there single god is the right one ?

Like what? Islam? The bible is a collection of statements which are presented as having been witnessed by human eyes (which does not prove that they were). In contrast, the Koran is presented as having been spoken by an angel to a man, who then shared the information with others, who eventually recorded it in written form. Obviously, if you consider the origins without doubting their reliability, I am inclined to believe a man when he says that he saw a demon possessed man be healed and the demons to cause a herd of pigs to drown themselves. I am not inclined to so easily believe that an angel who is claiming to have God's message, actually does have God's message. For one thing, I am not an angel, why would I presume to trust that their sense of honesty or interest in truth is the same as a human's sense of it?

If there are other single gods in your mind for this question, please list them because I can't just guess.

Is it simply after all an inside belief, an inside compulsion that drives you to strongly believe, to be sure your god is the one and only ?
Is it based on objective evidence and not so much of a higher spiritual compulsion ?

I have very little doubt that the ultimate God is who I revere and who has absolute control over my experiences with that regard. I also do not doubt any of Jesus' statements. He seems to have spoken truthfully every time I examine Him. My impression of The Holy Spirit is consistent with the impression of The Holy Spirit as documented in His activity in biblical records. I recognise other spirits that are not consistent with The Holy Spirit. There is a possibility I could be wrong, for example prone to make incorrect assumptions about these things, but it does not have any likelihood that I can consider it to be doubt (thank God).

What do you think leads you to be christian or whatever your belief is, and makes you keep to that belief ?

It is the right thing to do, based on what I know.

Tell me I'd be happy to know about all of that ^^.

Thank you, it was not as difficult as I expected!

 

[Brennos]

Wow, you have asked great questions here, and I thought I understood all this quite well. You are pushing me to think further than I have, with these questions. Thanks!

Well your welcome, Im happy if I can push people to think

These are two different questions. I have seen different motives for choosing to pursue Christianity. It is the motivation that I question when I am involved by someone who is struggling with their faith. Not every motive will produce the same sincerity of faith. For instance, some people choose to be Christian because their friends and family already are, and to opt out would not produce the relationships they actually want to have with those people. Sometimes people will choose to be Christian for a similar reason, but they are already lonely and they are looking to belong to a group of friends. Sometimes people will be motivated by the fear of the unknown, of uncertainty of awareness after death, and where they wish to be sure they are settled with God. Sometimes people might just investigate the facts and find that it makes sense. Then there are those who believe God has actually interacted with them, and they have had a real experience with Him.

The second question is most interesting to me, and suited well to this subforum. I have understood and observed according to that understanding, that a belief is essentially committing to a given set of necessary decisions. So the beliefs we have will cause us to make biased decisions, to ensure that our decisions always support our beliefs. What this suggests is that to change a belief system, one has to become comfortable with choosing to make different decisions than what they presently choose to do. Obviously this is daunting, and when you see people converting and deconverting, you will always observe some process of progression toward making the definitive decision to change from one belief system to another.

So there are different sincerit of faith, makes sense indeed. Changing a belief system is changing the way you react to the world infact. Interesting. But yes, if I was to become a christian I would have to acknowledge God (Unique as said in the bible) created me for a reason.
So this would definitely change something.

Like what? Islam? The bible is a collection of statements which are presented as having been witnessed by human eyes (which does not prove that they were). In contrast, the Koran is presented as having been spoken by an angel to a man, who then shared the information with others, who eventually recorded it in written form. Obviously, if you consider the origins without doubting their reliability, I am inclined to believe a man when he says that he saw a demon possessed man be healed and the demons to cause a herd of pigs to drown themselves. I am not inclined to so easily believe that an angel who is claiming to have God's message, actually does have God's message. For one thing, I am not an angel, why would I presume to trust that their sense of honesty or interest in truth is the same as a human's sense of it?

True about Islam clearly, given by God himself or his servant (angel) is less plausible then a human eye witness account (at least we are sure humans exist on a secular level).
Which by the way would really make me question the story of the ten commandements, where Moshe went alone (no eye witness) in the mountain and was given by god the laws. Cause here is strictly no eye witness.

If there are other single gods in your mind for this question, please list them because I can't just guess.

Of other single god religion that has still some form of folowing ill say, Zoroastrism, Sikhism, Yezidism (Kurd ancestral religion). I know you might not know as much about those.
The ancient ones are too numerous I wont list them. In them is Mithraism, Babylonian's religions and more...

I have very little doubt that the ultimate God is who I revere and who has absolute control over my experiences with that regard. I also do not doubt any of Jesus' statements. He seems to have spoken truthfully every time I examine Him. My impression of The Holy Spirit is consistent with the impression of The Holy Spirit as documented in His activity in biblical records. I recognise other spirits that are not consistent with The Holy Spirit. There is a possibility I could be wrong, for example prone to make incorrect assumptions about these things, but it does not have any likelihood that I can consider it to be doubt (thank God).

It is the right thing to do, based on what I know.

Thank you, it was not as difficult as I expected!

So you still acknowledge the possibility to be wrong, that's honest at least.
Well thank you for your honest answer ^^

 

[ChristCameBackFromTheDead]

There is a certain term that Jesus uses in the Gospel, that is "He who has ears let him hear". Basically meaning those who want to hear the truth will hear it, and those who do not and want to continue to believe what they believe, will not. This is the problem with many unbelievers today. They will not even consider believing in something that forces them to hold themselves accountable.

I believe this question needs to be answered asking a different question. It shouldn't be "what made you convert?", it should first be "Is there a god?". So let's consider our options with modern theories. The universe could be eternal in itself, having always been here with no creation. This would prove to be invalid due to evidence that space is expanding, so if it is expanding it has a starting point. Which leaves the big bang theory, stating that everything started from one specific point due to matter collision or particle reaction. So then we have to ask, where did the particles that collided come from? Something cannot come from nothing, it's the basic principle of science, cause and effect. In a repeating pattern of cause and effect there has to be an original cause. If we accept this then we must consider a creation point or a Creator. So this leads to God, but the disbelief stems from the question, "What created God?". This is "trump" card for many atheist but they themselves cannot logically explain our origins, let's consider our examinations thus far.

We have concluded that something coming from nothing is illogical, so this would eliminate the theory of the big bang. The universe being eternal is removed since there is strong evidence against it, so now we have to properly explain God or disprove God. If the universe was created at some central point then there must be the belief that there was once nothing, but what if God's presence being eternal and everlasting is the exact opposite of nothing. We cannot wrap our minds around either concept but on immediate findings it sure does explain our creation and coincide with our own logic.

We cannot explain God as a "man in the sky", that He is not. God would be the very back drop and source of everything that is in existence, let's compare this with DNA. DNA is the hidden element behind all life, it is the source and the reason for our very existence, so let's try to put this into better understanding by saying God is the universes DNA. Everything we see is from Him and needs His will to survive. The universe is merely a fish tank for a lack of better terms. Many scientists believe in multi universes, look in the bible for clues when Heaven is revealed, it is always "opened" rather than just looking up. This sure does sound a lot like some sort of black hole being opened showing the surroundings outside of our fish tank.

This thought process is what leaves me to believe in a god. If a god did create us and if He did love us it would be foolish to think He would not reveal Himself through divine doctrine. The creation holds watermarks of its creator, our capacity to love. In a similar way we love our children could be reflected upon Him as His characteristic. As a father, I want to be involved in every aspect of my children's lives. I want them to always know that I love them and I am there for them. If we are created by Him we are His children, He would surely reveal Himself.

Now onto the important question of "how would He reveal Himself and which is the right god?". Christianity is the only religion that is meant to serve. It calls to action a sense of servitude towards our brethren. There is no violence or hate that is found in the gospel, the very idea of it is to treat each other as we would our own flesh and blood. This is consistent with our nature towards family, which in turn would be consistent with our Creator. Christianity is also one of the only religions with extreme historical accuracy, from the perseverance of the text to the very life style of it's subjects. If you examine other religious documents, it would show quite clearly that it is foreign to human nature and has sporadically popped up on the worlds timeline. There was a quote I read from a historian, it was something like this. "If the bible did not have supernatural elements it would be considered infallible truth to any scholar due to its consistency and its overwhelming support from outside sources".

I think many atheist have a problem with Christianity due to it's widespread belief, it's an arrogant thought that so many people know something they do not. If God is a loving father why wouldn't He want the entire world to know? Any obscure truth would not fit in the nature of a Creator, now we could discuss how many Christians have absolutely no idea of what they believe and use Christianity to simply try to secure their own salvation, but that is another topic entirely.

The truth of God is so blatantly in our faces yet we rebel, trusting in our own understanding. Romans 1:20 "For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse." His majesty is right in front of us yet we refuse to see. God revealed Himself through Christ in the form of a human being to show us the way. Yet we still refuse to see Him, which is why He said "Those with ears let them hear".

God Bless you and may this fall upon ears that hear.

 

[Colter]

Im sorry by advance I really dont know where to put what is just a simple question. I find it to fit more in the phylosophy thread but it does not really fit here. Anyway.

Here's a question way less controversial than my other topics.
Simply, what leads someone to become a Christian, how do you go from one belief system to another... ?
And also what in your mind makes christianity a more plausible option than the ones who also claim there single god is the right one ?

Is it simply after all an inside belief, an inside compulsion that drives you to strongly believe, to be sure your god is the one and only ?
Is it based on objective evidence and not so much of a higher spiritual compulsion ?

What do you think leads you to be christian or whatever your belief is, and makes you keep to that belief ?

Tell me I'd be happy to know about all of that ^^.

I was born into the traditional Christian religion. I went to church as a kid but didn't like church, in fact I hated church! I didn't believe much of what they taught BUT I never had a problem with Jesus.

At 22 years old I had a spiritual rebirth brought on by a life crisis. I considered Jesus more deeply and was also drawn to the Urantia Book that my father quietly read since the 60's where I found the entire life of Jesus as well as a massive amount of background material about God the Father, the universe, evolution, religion, spirituality etc.

Jesus, who is in effect God and creator of our world, is a revelation of the Father. To know Jesus is to know the Father.


Thanks for asking

 

[ChristCameBackFromTheDead]

I was born into the traditional Christian religion. I went to church as a kid but didn't like church, in fact I hated church! I didn't believe much of what they taught BUT I never had a problem with Jesus.

At 22 years old I had a spiritual rebirth brought on by a life crisis. I considered Jesus more deeply and was also drawn to the Urantia Book that my father quietly read since the 60's where I found the entire life of Jesus as well as a massive amount of background material about God the Father, the universe, evolution, religion, spirituality etc.

Jesus, who is in effect God and creator of our world, is a revelation of the Father. To know Jesus is to know the Father.


Thanks for asking

Not being rude... but how do you justify the Urantia Book as truth?

 

[Colter]

Not being rude... but how do you justify the Urantia Book as truth?

Have you read the Urantia Book?

 

[ChristCameBackFromTheDead]

Have you read the Urantia Book?

Bits. Not supported by the bible at all.

 

[Colter]

Bits. Not supported by the bible at all.

Jesus wasn't supported by the Jewish Bible as their Messiah, just ask them and they will explain. Jesus is to Jews what Mormonism is to Christians.

What Bible supported Moses in authority in Egypt?

 

[ChristCameBackFromTheDead]

Jesus wasn't supported by the Jewish Bible as their Messiah, just ask them and they will explain. Jesus is to Jews what Mormonism is to Christians.

What Bible supported Moses in authority in Egypt?

....

The entire old testament supports Jesus. That's literally what the Old Testament is. The Jews in the New Testament didn't persecute Him for this but because He was threatening their power.

There was no bible when Moses did as God commanded him. Also, the OT speaks of the coming of Christ, the New Testament very clearly states that no other doctrine will contradict or add on to the bible. The scripture as we know it is to be used as a gauge of truth.

The book you are speaking of, is from a sleeping man. Could the communication not have been from a demon? Or perhaps a story developed by the very ones who were said to have heard it?

Regardless, the book you speak of is against our Holy Scripture.

 

[Colter]

....

The entire old testament supports Jesus. That's literally what the Old Testament is. The Jews in the New Testament didn't persecute Him for this but because He was threatening their power.

There was no bible when Moses did as God commanded him. Also, the OT speaks of the coming of Christ, the New Testament very clearly states that no other doctrine will contradict or add on to the bible. The scripture as we know it is to be used as a gauge of truth.

The book you are speaking of, is from a sleeping man. Could the communication not have been from a demon? Or perhaps a story developed by the very ones who were said to have heard it?

Regardless, the book you speak of is against our Holy Scripture.

When I asked if you had read the UB I meant more than Googling a synopsis.

Jesus is forced into parts of the OT books for validation by his Jewish converts. The OT books were all rewritten in Babylon anyway.

Jesus was more than a threat to the administration in his day, Judaism has had 2,000 years to compare, Jesus didn't do what the Messiah was supposed to do. The Jews still use the "scripture" to withstand Jesus.

They said Jesus was from Satan, he debunked that idea.

 

[Brennos]

Christ came back from the Dead:

"I've read other religions, it falls into the category that I have stated."

This simple statement to me discredits any simple thing you said. You litteraly stated all other religions but christianity do not aim to serve (god I guess ? ). While you cannot be sure of this. You cannot possibly have known all religions.

"He who has ear let him hear"

Or how to state if you do not believe in my theology you're to blame. How convenient. I hate agressive preachers like that.
Is there a God wasnt the question but ok...
Im a believer in Gods but Im gonna point out a lot of your logical fallacies.

Most atheist will state "they (and we) do not know of our universe origin" an obvious plausible answer. you state:
It is God.
Then if someone ask you where God comes from you state:

If the universe was created at some central point then there must be the belief that there was once nothing, but what if God's presence being eternal and everlasting is the exact opposite of nothing.
God would be the very back drop and source of everything that is in existence,

Which is not supported by any evidence. You do not add in your whole discourse any evidences for god.
It is easy to understand why an atheist wont follow you. All you do is treating them as fools, saying they are just unwilling to see. While you fail to see you do not support your theories with evidence.


Then on to why we should believe in your god (which was not the question either). Or as you say:

Now onto the important question of "how would He reveal Himself and which is the right god?".

Christianity is the only religion that is meant to serve.

Meant to serve God ?
Zoroastrism is meant to serve god (Ahura Mazda) , Mithraism is meant to serve God. Not to mention Islam... Where you are ONLY meant to serve god.

Meant to serve others ?
Sikhism, Jainism, Gaullo-Roman Paganism.

Meant to serve yourself all of the above + others.

There is no violence or hate that is found in the gospel

Ahem ... you forgot the old testament, which I remind you is acknowledged by the new one.
I mean for violence you just forgot ... THAT:

Cruelty and Violence

So please dont tell me there is no violence in the bible.

the only religions with extreme historical accuracy

Really ? ^^
Extreme historical accuracy ?

Like Noah's Ark ?
Like people living 900 years ?

A total eclipse after the crucifixion of Jesus that is only recorded in the bible ?


And so much more.
Science and History in the Bible

So dont tell me your book is scientifically or historically accurate. And who was this "historian scholar" who said such of the Bible ? No because most historian scholar ive heard of disagree of the existence of JC.
Like the Tel-Aviv archeologic institute. But they might be biased indeed.

PS : No book is ever considered infaillible truth by any scholars the one you quoted must be very sure of himself.


And finally what seems like the truth might be in your face, but many time our perceptions and understanding of the world is flawed it is why we rely on empirical (objective) proof. To be able to distinguish reality even if it happens to be counter intuitive.

But of course you are not going to believe what I said because:
"He who has ear let him hear"

I love this sentence of yours extremly convenient I'll use it more often.

 

[ChristCameBackFromTheDead]

When I asked if you had read the UB I meant more than Googling a synopsis.

Jesus is forced into parts of the OT books for validation by his Jewish converts. The OT books were all rewritten in Babylon anyway.

Jesus was more than a threat to the administration in his day, Judaism has had 2,000 years to compare, Jesus didn't do what the Messiah was supposed to do. The Jews still use the "scripture" to withstand Jesus.

They said Jesus was from Satan, he debunked that idea.

ookkkaaayyO

 

[oi_antz]

Well your welcome, Im happy if I can push people to think

Me too. Why do you suppose it is, that they tend to avoid it when it becomes necessary?

So there are different sincerit of faith, makes sense indeed. Changing a belief system is changing the way you react to the world infact. Interesting. But yes, if I was to become a christian I would have to acknowledge God (Unique as said in the bible) created me for a reason.
So this would definitely change something.

I expect you would need to change more than just your beliefs about that. I reckon those other things have to be the real reason you can't fully consider it.

True about Islam clearly, given by God himself or his servant (angel) is less plausible then a human eye witness account (at least we are sure humans exist on a secular level).

Not that as much as there is a clearly different spirit behind the Koran than behind the bible. Just because an angel claims to b speaking for God, does not cause me to believe it must be true. There is something very fishy going on there, and I just do not trust the spirit of the Koran.

Which by the way would really make me question the story of the ten commandements, where Moshe went alone (no eye witness) in the mountain and was given by god the laws. Cause here is strictly no eye witness.

You have that luxiory since we cannot study the tablets for verification of God's finger.

Of other single god religion that has still some form of folowing ill say, Zoroastrism, Sikhism, Yezidism (Kurd ancestral religion). I know you might not know as much about those.
The ancient ones are too numerous I wont list them. In them is Mithraism, Babylonian's religions and more...

Ok, so clearly I can only say that the reason for not believing aspects of those religions is a lack of education in them. But in saying this, I have found truths in other religious statements, for example The Buddha and Bhagavad-gita. But while I like to accept the truth that is true, I can also say that there are statements from the same sources which I cannot accept as true. Unjustified assumption, conclusions that rely on unjustified assumption. I cannot say this of Jesus. All I can say of Jesus' statements to this effect, is that His convictions rely on assumptions that His experiences were real and not delusion or hallucination. I think He clearly appears sane, I do not think it is likely that His experiences were not real.

After saying this, I am aware we have gone off track. Do you know how to bring us back to the declaration you are asking for? Perhaps you know enough of these other religions to think some of their claims are a serious challenge to Christian claims. If you can show me those concerns, I will look into it and tell you what thoughts I choose to consider about it.

So you still acknowledge the possibility to be wrong, that's honest at least.
Well thank you for your honest answer ^^

I am not sure if your words "at least" are a figure of speech, or whether they indicate that you think I have been a bit dishonest. I would like the opportunity to demonstrate the facts to you, if that is the case.

<Staff Edit>

 

[ChristCameBackFromTheDead]

Christ came back from the Dead:


This simple statement to me discredits any simple thing you said. You litteraly stated all other religions but christianity do not aim to serve (god I guess ? ). While you cannot be sure of this. You cannot possibly have known all religions.

Or how to state if you do not believe in my theology you're to blame. How convenient. I hate agressive preachers like that.
Is there a God wasnt the question but ok...
Im a believer in Gods but Im gonna point out a lot of your logical fallacies.

Most atheist will state "they (and we) do not know of our universe origin" an obvious plausible answer. you state:
It is God.
Then if someone ask you where God comes from you state:

Which is not supported by any evidence. You do not add in your whole discourse any evidences for god.
It is easy to understand why an atheist wont follow you. All you do is treating them as fools, saying they are just unwilling to see. While you fail to see you do not support your theories with evidence.


Then on to why we should believe in your god (which was not the question either). Or as you say:

Meant to serve God ?
Zoroastrism is meant to serve god (Ahura Mazda) , Mithraism is meant to serve God. Not to mention Islam... Where you are ONLY meant to serve god.

Meant to serve others ?
Sikhism, Jainism, Gaullo-Roman Paganism.

Meant to serve yourself all of the above + others.

Ahem ... you forgot the old testament, which I remind you is acknowledged by the new one.
I mean for violence you just forgot ... THAT:

Cruelty and Violence

So please dont tell me there is no violence in the bible.

Really ? ^^
Extreme historical accuracy ?

Like Noah's Ark ?
Like people living 900 years ?

A total eclipse after the crucifixion of Jesus that is only recorded in the bible ?


And so much more.
Science and History in the Bible

So dont tell me your book is scientifically or historically accurate. And who was this "historian scholar" who said such of the Bible ? No because most historian scholar ive heard of disagree of the existence of JC.
Like the Tel-Aviv archeologic institute. But they might be biased indeed.

PS : No book is ever considered infaillible truth by any scholars the one you quoted must be very sure of himself.


And finally what seems like the truth might be in your face, but many time our perceptions and understanding of the world is flawed it is why we rely on empirical (objective) proof. To be able to distinguish reality even if it happens to be counter intuitive.

But of course you are not going to believe what I said because:
"He who has ear let him hear"

I love this sentence of yours extremly convenient I'll use it more often.

Then let's start a formal debate?

Because everything you just put there is completely wrong.

Of course I would demand proper spelling, you say what I said discredits my opinion?

Good stuff.

 

[ChristCameBackFromTheDead]

Christ came back from the Dead:


This simple statement to me discredits any simple thing you said. You litteraly stated all other religions but christianity do not aim to serve (god I guess ? ). While you cannot be sure of this. You cannot possibly have known all religions.

Or how to state if you do not believe in my theology you're to blame. How convenient. I hate agressive preachers like that.
Is there a God wasnt the question but ok...
Im a believer in Gods but Im gonna point out a lot of your logical fallacies.

Most atheist will state "they (and we) do not know of our universe origin" an obvious plausible answer. you state:
It is God.
Then if someone ask you where God comes from you state:

Which is not supported by any evidence. You do not add in your whole discourse any evidences for god.
It is easy to understand why an atheist wont follow you. All you do is treating them as fools, saying they are just unwilling to see. While you fail to see you do not support your theories with evidence.


Then on to why we should believe in your god (which was not the question either). Or as you say:

Meant to serve God ?
Zoroastrism is meant to serve god (Ahura Mazda) , Mithraism is meant to serve God. Not to mention Islam... Where you are ONLY meant to serve god.

Meant to serve others ?
Sikhism, Jainism, Gaullo-Roman Paganism.

Meant to serve yourself all of the above + others.

Ahem ... you forgot the old testament, which I remind you is acknowledged by the new one.
I mean for violence you just forgot ... THAT:

Cruelty and Violence

So please dont tell me there is no violence in the bible.

Really ? ^^
Extreme historical accuracy ?

Like Noah's Ark ?
Like people living 900 years ?

A total eclipse after the crucifixion of Jesus that is only recorded in the bible ?


And so much more.
Science and History in the Bible

So dont tell me your book is scientifically or historically accurate. And who was this "historian scholar" who said such of the Bible ? No because most historian scholar ive heard of disagree of the existence of JC.
Like the Tel-Aviv archeologic institute. But they might be biased indeed.

PS : No book is ever considered infaillible truth by any scholars the one you quoted must be very sure of himself.


And finally what seems like the truth might be in your face, but many time our perceptions and understanding of the world is flawed it is why we rely on empirical (objective) proof. To be able to distinguish reality even if it happens to be counter intuitive.

But of course you are not going to believe what I said because:
"He who has ear let him hear"

I love this sentence of yours extremly convenient I'll use it more often.

If you want to start a formal debate, we can.

 

[FireDragon76]

The historiocity of the Bible and the potential ramifications of the incarnational theology of Christian tradition. Those make Christianity compelling in a way that many other religions I have studied have not been. I like the quote from C.S. Lewis, that Christianity is like a sun than illumines everything. And there is room for intellectual growth as well because the answers that Christianity gives are not simplistic. But at the core we can be sure that the narrative of our lives works for a greater good, for those that love God.

Spiritually, there is a plethora of different spiritualities and practices as compared to many other religions- that makes Christianity incredibly diverse. I believe that's another strength of the religion. One narrative can spawn so many different approaches to how that narrative impacts peoples lives.

 

[TillICollapse]

Im sorry by advance I really dont know where to put what is just a simple question. I find it to fit more in the phylosophy thread but it does not really fit here. Anyway.

Here's a question way less controversial than my other topics.
Simply, what leads someone to become a Christian, how do you go from one belief system to another... ?
And also what in your mind makes christianity a more plausible option than the ones who also claim there single god is the right one ?

Is it simply after all an inside belief, an inside compulsion that drives you to strongly believe, to be sure your god is the one and only ?
Is it based on objective evidence and not so much of a higher spiritual compulsion ?

What do you think leads you to be christian or whatever your belief is, and makes you keep to that belief ?

Tell me I'd be happy to know about all of that ^^.

Why do you want to know ?

Are you also curious about why certain people take to Star Trek and not Star Wars, or why certain teenage girls fall all over themselves for certain pop stars, or why people are fans of certain sports teams, etc ? What does a person prefer US Republicans verses US Democrats ? Why become a Nazi ? Why prefer some music and not others ? Why racism ?

I think the reasons people take sides with ANYTHING are not cut and dry, but almost personalized to each individual. Even someone born into a culture that is shoving one perspective down their throat, may not be able to point to that reason even though it may seem glaringly obvious.

I'd be curious why you are so curious about Christianity. What's the draw for you ? What's the pull ? If you want to answer.

ETA: Actually I started a thread asking in general these very questions. If you'd like to answer there, that's fine.

 

[oi_antz]

31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’

Luke 16:31

That isn't proof though. Proof always depends on the judge accepting evidence. Faith always has the opportunity to choose in or out. It always seems that He prefers it to be that way. Your apparent frustrations really belong to Him and not you, FWIW.

 

[ChristCameBackFromTheDead]

That isn't proof though. Proof always depends on the judge accepting evidence. Faith always has the opportunity to choose in or out. It always seems that He prefers it to be that way. Your apparent frustrations really belong to Him and not you, FWIW.

You're right, I am really quite bad at times conversing with non believers. It really makes you appreciate the parables Christ used...

I would really hate getting into a debate with Christ, talk about a deadly debater!

To Davian :

Mind if I ask you a question then? If God did reveal Himself, how would you respond? What if scientists explained it away? Maybe someone took credit for it by saying the staged the entire thing with a giant projector. What would be your immediate reaction to it?