A response to racism in American Orthodoxy

gzt

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~Anastasia~

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I'm not seeing any info relating to the incident at hand. If the photo is of something that happened (and sadly I can believe that folks out there make errors and go against Church teaching) then I would hope the Bishops might make an appropriate response, whatever that may be.

But I thought the Church had already spoken (and acted) quite clearly that we do not teach or support various forms of racism?
 
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mothcorrupteth

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(1) The Confederate Battle Flag is not a "white supremacy symbol." (Nor is the swastika, for that matter.) Both symbols are employed just as well by people who have no intention of shorting anyone because of their melanin levels. (Buddhists, in the case of the swastika.) The world is not black and white, and just as there were those who were and those who weren't motivated by slavery to fight the War of Secession (there were even differences between states), there are those who do and those who don't use the Flag as an element of racial ideology.

(2) I would imagine the use of the Orthodox cross has something to do with the media's constant drive to link white supremacy, Trump supporters, and Russian election conspiracies into a coherent narrative of alliance. It's not rare that when one's opponent makes tenuous links between your position and something else, one responds by seeing oneself in solidarity with the second thing. I mean, look at the absurdity of Bowe Bergdahl. His family was the very picture of socially conservative Presbyterians. But because it was Obama who was taking up Bowe's case, the family was unfairly caricatured by Fox News as Muslim.

(3) I always get a chuckle when I read op-ed articles with titles like, "Why your conservative friends choose not to accept facts." The Left enjoys portraying itself this way, as the guardians of rigid and unshakable truth, but it engages in the exact same patterns of cognitive bias that it notes in the Right. Nothing serves as a better example than the charge of "racism." It never matters how many "facts" you can militate--"I have plenty of Black friends," "My parents hosted a Black wedding in an all-white town, and those are the values they passed down to me," "I supported Ben Carson in the primaries"--it's never good enough. It's like Sigmund Freud; if you told Freud that you had no secret sexual attraction to your mother, he took your insistent denial as evidence that you really did. It is okay to generalize from a handful of photos and anecdotes to the conclusion that a person or group is "racist," but for some reason, it is never okay to generalize from another handful of exhibits to the opposite conclusion. Sure, it might be prudent, given media coverage, for Orthodoxy to disavow white supremacy publicly. What is not prudent, though, is jumping to the conclusion that white supremacy is now a problem in American Orthodoxy. That would take a lot more evidence and documentation.
 
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Hermit76

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I attend St. Anne's also. I was unaware of this, but it does not surprise me. There is a parish just south of us that is home to several white supremacists. I have been told that the priest there was communing Matthew Heimbach for some time before he was told to stop. As a seeker I visited this parish unaware of the issues. Near the end of coffee hour it hit me what I had stumbled into (multiple individuals with nazi tattoos). This is an open, defiant group that is constantly involved in stirring up white supremacy in East Tennessee and beyond. One of the communicants spent time in prison for hate crimes. He has since changed his name, but continues to remain connected to the movement. Can you imagine being a potential convert and walking into this atmosphere your second time in an Orthodox Church? This needs to be addressed.

This parish is a member of a canonical jurisdiction.

H
 
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Hermit76

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...What is not prudent, though, is jumping to the conclusion that white supremacy is now a problem in American Orthodoxy. That would take a lot more evidence and documentation.

No offense, my stumbling upon a parish that supports white supremacy almost kept me from the faith. I am thankful I had the balance of another parish. Otherwise I would have been Catholic today.
 
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Orthodoxjay1

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No offense, my stumbling upon a parish that supports white supremacy almost kept me from the faith. I am thankful I had the balance of another parish. Otherwise I would have been Catholic today.

What parish is this? You say canonical? What Jurisdiction? This is potentially damaging to our missionary efforts in America, if true.
 
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gzt

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(1) The Confederate Battle Flag is not a "white supremacy symbol." (Nor is the swastika, for that matter.) Both symbols are employed just as well by people who have no intention of shorting anyone because of their melanin levels. (Buddhists, in the case of the swastika.) The world is not black and white, and just as there were those who were and those who weren't motivated by slavery to fight the War of Secession (there were even differences between states), there are those who do and those who don't use the Flag as an element of racial ideology.
Well, it's debatable, but there's a very real point that , to many, it's a symbol of hatred and oppression.

(2) I would imagine the use of the Orthodox cross has something to do with the media's constant drive to link white supremacy, Trump supporters, and Russian election conspiracies into a coherent narrative of alliance. It's not rare that when one's opponent makes tenuous links between your position and something else, one responds by seeing oneself in solidarity with the second thing. I mean, look at the absurdity of Bowe Bergdahl. His family was the very picture of socially conservative Presbyterians. But because it was Obama who was taking up Bowe's case, the family was unfairly caricatured by Fox News as Muslim.
This is puzzling - the media doesn't care about or even recognize the three-bar cross symbol. It's also pretty easy to see the link between the people who did this and the symbol - TWP is obsessed with Orthodoxy.

(3) I always get a chuckle when I read op-ed articles with titles like, "Why your conservative friends choose not to accept facts." The Left enjoys portraying itself this way, as the guardians of rigid and unshakable truth, but it engages in the exact same patterns of cognitive bias that it notes in the Right. Nothing serves as a better example than the charge of "racism." It never matters how many "facts" you can militate--"I have plenty of Black friends," "My parents hosted a Black wedding in an all-white town, and those are the values they passed down to me," "I supported Ben Carson in the primaries"--it's never good enough. It's like Sigmund Freud; if you told Freud that you had no secret sexual attraction to your mother, he took your insistent denial as evidence that you really did. It is okay to generalize from a handful of photos and anecdotes to the conclusion that a person or group is "racist," but for some reason, it is never okay to generalize from another handful of exhibits to the opposite conclusion. Sure, it might be prudent, given media coverage, for Orthodoxy to disavow white supremacy publicly. What is not prudent, though, is jumping to the conclusion that white supremacy is now a problem in American Orthodoxy. That would take a lot more evidence and documentation.
I don't get the connection here at all.
 
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gzt

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The accusation against the seminarian is unfounded, thinly-veiled garbage.
I'm not particularly interested in that part, especially as the guy (whoever it is) is unnamed.
 
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gzt

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I attend St. Anne's also. I was unaware of this, but it does not surprise me. There is a parish just south of us that is home to several white supremacists. I have been told that the priest there was communing Matthew Heimbach for some time before he was told to stop. As a seeker I visited this parish unaware of the issues. Near the end of coffee hour it hit me what I had stumbled into (multiple individuals with nazi tattoos). This is an open, defiant group that is constantly involved in stirring up white supremacy in East Tennessee and beyond. One of the communicants spent time in prison for hate crimes. He has since changed his name, but continues to remain connected to the movement. Can you imagine being a potential convert and walking into this atmosphere your second time in an Orthodox Church? This needs to be addressed.

This parish is a member of a canonical jurisdiction.

H
Yes, this is not the first I've heard of this. It's why I take this kind of thing very seriously.
 
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Platina

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I'm not particularly interested in that part, especially as the guy (whoever it is) is unnamed.
Unfortunately, it has the potential to be a very bad situation for both the student and the school. This is not the first time this group of people (or at least some of the signees) has thrown around such false accusations against good people. There seems to be a serious lack of conscience here.
 
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Hermit76

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Unfortunately, it has the potential to be a very bad situation for both the student and the school. This is not the first time this group of people (or at least some of the signees) has thrown around such false accusations against good people. There seems to be a serious lack of conscience here.
And making racist statements online doesn't indicate a lack of conscience?
 
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~Anastasia~

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I attend St. Anne's also. I was unaware of this, but it does not surprise me. There is a parish just south of us that is home to several white supremacists. I have been told that the priest there was communing Matthew Heimbach for some time before he was told to stop. As a seeker I visited this parish unaware of the issues. Near the end of coffee hour it hit me what I had stumbled into (multiple individuals with nazi tattoos). This is an open, defiant group that is constantly involved in stirring up white supremacy in East Tennessee and beyond. One of the communicants spent time in prison for hate crimes. He has since changed his name, but continues to remain connected to the movement. Can you imagine being a potential convert and walking into this atmosphere your second time in an Orthodox Church? This needs to be addressed.

This parish is a member of a canonical jurisdiction.

H

I agree that would present a real problem for inquirers. I understand that priests have a particular sensitivity with regard to individuals, trying to restore them rather than cast them out. But if the atmosphere overall has become a problem, well ... I hope the bishop steps in. This really ought not to be.

Sometimes an individual in our parish puts forth not-quite-Orthodox ideas to whoever will listen, and Father has to deal with that. But a whole group putting forth something as problematic as a racist ideaology should definitely be dealt with, for the sake of everyone involved. Lord have mercy.
 
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