2nd Coming vs Rapture

[jayswife29]

Not that anyone cares, but in my opinion the rapture and the second coming are 2 different things. Ok, now I have to prepare for arguments, so be it, but this is my opinion. I dont know why people claim that the rapture is some big secret...I am sure more than 2 or 3 people have heard of it. Also, for those of you who claim that the term 'rapture' isnt in the bible, youre right, that word translates from the phrase "being caught up quickly". The word "Drugs" isnt in the bible, it to is translated, (from the word sorceries,) so wether a word is in the bibles original text isn't always something to base an argument on, the words are TRANSLATED. Also, the rapture is when Jesus comes back for His church, He meets us IN THE CLOUDS, the 2 coming is when He actually touches His feet on the mountain. Hmmmmm, meets us in the clouds, or touches the ground. Which is it? How can someone be in the sky AND on the ground at the same time?

 

[tov]

i would add to that
(what jayswife said)
how can he both appear like lightning
from the east to the west
everyone sees it
and also be like a thief in the night
I suggest these are two separate events.

"We shall not all sleep,
but we shall all be changed"

The timing elements are too good for it to be
a suprise after the desecration.
its an exact # of days
has anyone else read Revelation and Daniel?
Besides JaysWife & I
(ok maybe mr symes too---
but he's post trib, right mr symes?)

 

[Symes]

Also, the rapture is when Jesus comes back for His church, He meets us IN THE CLOUDS, the 2 coming is when He actually touches His feet on the mountain. Hmmmmm, meets us in the clouds, or touches the ground. Which is it? How can someone be in the sky AND on the ground at the same time?

Jesus does not touch the ground when He comes back the second time. He takes us back to heaven. Remember He is now preparing us a place to live in and when He returns He will take us back to heaven.

He will touch the mountain at the end of the 1,000 years.

i would add to that
(what jayswife said)
how can he both appear like lightning
from the east to the west
everyone sees it
and also be like a thief in the night
I suggest these are two separate events.

They are not different, but the same event. There is nothing said in the Bible to suggest anything else.

 

[jayswife29]

Well, in Matthew 24 Jesus says "But of the day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only" so I wonder, if no one knows, and Jesus raptures us after the tribulation, or even half way through it, then that means we WOULD know the day. Then in Revelation 20 it says" And I saw thrones, and they sat on them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years." This is the first resurrection. So if these saints are resurrected and will live and reign with Christ throughout the 1,000 year reign, why would He rapture us after the 1,000 years? If Jesus' second coming is actually the rapture, and that doesnt happen until after the 1,000 years, what is the purpose of the first resurrection?

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

Jesus does not touch the ground when He comes back the second time. He takes us back to heaven. Remember He is now preparing us a place to live in and when He returns He will take us back to heaven.

He will touch the mountain at the end of the 1,000 years.




They are not different, but the same event. There is nothing said in the Bible to suggest anything else.

That is correct Symes. You can't be in the air and on the mountain at the same time. We are coming back after the 1000 years.....BUT, people shouldn't get locked into the 1000 years being a literal 1000 years. Recall that one day is as a thousand years to the Lord ~ Psalms 90:4 - 2nd Peter 3:8 There was a reason that was added to the bible two different times. Can you feature a supper lasting 1000 years?

 

[Pacigoth13]

Well, it's pretty clear to me... there is a "second coming" (even though we misunderstand it) but there is no rapture. The idea of a rapture is totally bizarre and did not begin to surface about until the 1850's.... *sniff**cult**sniff*

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

Well, in Matthew 24 Jesus says "But of the day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only" so I wonder, if no one knows, and Jesus raptures us after the tribulation, or even half way through it, then that means we WOULD know the day. Then in Revelation 20 it says" And I saw thrones, and they sat on them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years." This is the first resurrection. So if these saints are resurrected and will live and reign with Christ throughout the 1,000 year reign, why would He rapture us after the 1,000 years? If Jesus' second coming is actually the rapture, and that doesnt happen until after the 1,000 years, what is the purpose of the first resurrection?

Hi. I am confused by your post. What I am reading is, you are saying that if we are raptured after the tribulation or during, that we would know the day. How do you arrive at that please? When we are raptured, we are still not going to know the day or the hour, if it is during or after the tribulation. The tribulation is 7 years. Half is 3-1/2 years. How could we know WHICH day on either one? We wouldn't. After the tribulation could mean a few days after, or one month, or a year. Remember, God doesn't go by the same "time" frame as we do, as I stated in the post to SYMES.
If this is the scripture that you are referring to about the folks not worshipping the beast, or receiving the mark in their foreheads, these folks if you will notice were beheaded for their testimony. Rev. 20:4 ~ And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshpped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. These are the people that accept Christ during the tribulation. We as the church are still here at this time also. If you will notice, we are still mentioned right up until Rev. chptr. 18, where the voice from heaven says, COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE, that ye be not partakers of her sins. Chptr. 19 is the marriage Supper.

 

[Symes]

Can you feature a supper lasting 1000 years?

Eating at the table of the Lord it masy last longer than a 1,000 years.

But we are told during this time we will be judging so we will not be eating and feasting all the time. There is a work to do and that is we will be judges.

 

[Symes]

Hi. I am confused by your post. What I am reading is, you are saying that if we are raptured after the tribulation or during, that we would know the day. How do you arrive at that please? When we are raptured, we are still not going to know the day or the hour, if it is during or after the tribulation. The tribulation is 7 years. Half is 3-1/2 years. How could we know WHICH day on either one? We wouldn't. After the tribulation could mean a few days after, or one month, or a year. Remember, God doesn't go by the same "time" frame as we do, as I stated in the post to SYMES.

No wonder you are confused. To start with there is no 7 year period of tribulation that at the end or before it begins that the saints are raptured away.

There is tribulation and it can be found in Rev 16. At the end of it the saints are taken away when Jesus returns. They live in heaven for 1,000 years and then return with Him and the New Jerusalem to earth. The second resurrection takes place and the devil and his supporters surround the Holy City. Then every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus is Lord. The wicked along with the devil and angels are consumed by fire never again to torment the inhabitants of this world or any other.

 

[Pacigoth13]

No, see, the problem is trying to fit a chronology to the book of Revelation when there isn't one. It is a series of timeless aoristic visions from the perspective of eternity reflecting back over history. Christians will never agree on a blue print for the end times because there isn't one. Get over it and consider seeing Revelation for what it is.

 

[armothe]

No, see, the problem is trying to fit a chronology to the book of Revelation when there isn't one. It is a series of timeless aoristic visions from the perspective of eternity reflecting back over history. Christians will never agree on a blue print for the end times because there isn't one. Get over it and consider seeing Revelation for what it is.

Awesome. Someone else "gets it".

-A

 

[Symes]

No, see, the problem is trying to fit a chronology to the book of Revelation when there isn't one. It is a series of timeless aoristic visions from the perspective of eternity reflecting back over history. Christians will never agree on a blue print for the end times because there isn't one. Get over it and consider seeing Revelation for what it is.

The book of Revelation is about Jesus Christ. Here is what it says it is about. Then if we think we can ignore what the book says and prosper under God's conditions we are just fooling ourselves.

[font=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]"The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: [font=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]1:2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. [/font][font=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein *: for the time is at hand."[/font][/font]

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

No wonder you are confused. To start with there is no 7 year period of tribulation that at the end or before it begins that the saints are raptured away.

There is tribulation and it can be found in Rev 16. At the end of it the saints are taken away when Jesus returns. They live in heaven for 1,000 years and then return with Him and the New Jerusalem to earth. The second resurrection takes place and the devil and his supporters surround the Holy City. Then every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus is Lord. The wicked along with the devil and angels are consumed by fire never again to torment the inhabitants of this world or any other.

Okay, I don't know why I said 7 years. I want to ask a question before I proceed further. Do you believe that the church is going to go through all of the tribulation, or just what Rev 16 is saying? I do not know if you are referring to my boo-boo regarding the 7 years, saying we won't go through either the beginning or the end of the tribulation. I hope you understand my confusion here by the statement in the first papragraph. Clarify please .