Greece becomes first Orthodox Christian country to legalize same-sex marriage

Ignatius the Kiwi said:

The Greeks always struck me as more liberal and willing to conform to immoral ideas of homosexuality. I can only hope the Church remains faithful and rejects the legitimacy of any so called homosexual marriage.

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The Church has no concern about how the secular state runs it's business, just like the secular state has no beef in the church's business. Separation of church and state, religionists should do well to understand the concept.

RileyG said:

They’ll demand approval for their lifestyle like they usually go. Anything less is seen as “hate.” I feel sad for Greece

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Currently the "hate" comes from the religionists .

trophy33 said:

Inquisitors, popes, radical reformers, various Christian kingdoms and rulers, who used violence against people who were not living according to their specific dogmatic flavors.

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Dan White wasn't any of these, yet the bullets he fired were very real - and christian.

trophy33 said:

What "the" warfare?

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Shooting people?
Calling for their mass exection?
https://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/1athdk4 So, that warfare.

linux.poet said:

Children with the two parents of the same sex as themselves struggle to relate to the opposite gender correctly. I remember watching a video of a girl raised by lesbian parents who was scared of men, for example, and she had to get over that.

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This can be said for all the single mothers raiseing kids too with no father at home. They'll get plenty of opposite gender in school and sexual preference, like I did.

linux.poet said:

2. Children with two parents of the opposite sex as themselves struggle to know who they are in terms of gender. I read a story in To My Trans Sisters about a biological male who turned trans because he was surrounded by women growing up with no male influence to show him who he was. Thus he assumed he was a girl too.

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Trans to me is a mental issue and trying to change your biological makeup because you think you are something else is dumb.

linux.poet said:

The other idea of a woman being raised by two dads creeps me out a bit because it’s similar to how I was raised, only much worse. As a woman being raised with my dad and brother, I was left with twice the amount of masculine influence, despite the fact that my mom was around. This means that I adopted a masculine temperament and was criticized by my female peer group for not performing as a woman. To this day it’s easier for me to get along with men and boys in my life and I still struggle with makeup and being female, getting along with women, and dealing with my significant quantity of masculine hobbies. I

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I was raised by my mom till 10 while my dad was at war but when the hormonal changes occured my sniffer was for the opposite sex. My first two kids were female I raised them to grow up (masculine) in a "man's world" They can compete or have something in common with boys in sports even hunting if they desire.

It's terrible to be criticized we've all been there. When I'm criticised I get defensive, sometimes angry, and judgment for my faith by other Christians used to cause fear. If I can feel these things in my circle how do you expect the other group thinks and feel when they are continually attacked and media to amplify our actions? We see their actions as hostilities and yet we haven't taken the plank out of our own eyes.

"criticized by my female peer group for nosometimesg as a woman"

Jesus commanded us to walk in this world with love for his creation, humankind. Loveing is not condoning but I have my salvation to work out instead of worrying about everyone else, and through prayer let the Holy Spirit work for the rest; or we can keep the warfare against flesh and blood going and never see peace.

Laodicean60 said:

It's terrible to be criticized we've all been there. When I'm criticised I get defensive, sometimes angry, and judgment for my faith by other Christians used to cause fear.

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It’s not terrible to be criticized.

Proverbs 9:8 said:

Do not rebuke a scoffer, or he will hate you;
Rebuke a wise person and he will love you.

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Proverbs 12:1 said:

One who loves discipline loves knowledge,
But one who hates rebuke is stupid.

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Leviticus 19:17 said:

You shall not hate your fellow countryman in your heart; you may certainly rebuke your neighbor, but you are not to incur sin because of him.

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The problem is that criticism of others can be just plain wrong. The criticism of an abuser is designed to destroy your self confidence and keep you under their control. The next time you object to some criticism, I would ask: How does this person want to damage me? What do they want me to do, say, or feel that is wrong? How do they wish to control me? What aspects of myself are they refusing to understand that should be obvious?

If I can’t answer any of these questions, I may need to ask this question: is this criticism true? What do I need to change and why? How can I better deal with this person?

The verse in Leviticus makes clear that there is a difference between rebuke (criticism) and hatred. If we brand all criticism as hatred, we sink to the level of our enemies who will not accept criticism for their sinful practices and label it as hatred. We must learn to accept Biblical criticism and rebuke as part of the sanctification process.

The rest of this post strikes me as defensive of single parent upbringing, so I don’t want to wade into those waters. Please note that some folks have more psychological resilience than others, and also waiting for your dad to come home from war is a LOT different from having no father at all. There’s no sense of abandonment and the torturous unknown for who your father is and why he left, was it your fault? and so on that kids with truly missing dads can go through.

driewerf said:

Currently the "hate" comes from the religionists .

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There is no hate. Just because you do not endorse or agree with someone’s lifestyle doesn’t mean you hate the person.

driewerf said:

The Church has no concern about how the secular state runs it's business, just like the secular state has no beef in the church's business. Separation of church and state, religionists should do well to understand the concept.

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The faithful have every right to say no to endorsing any same sex “wedding.” They have a right to follow their conscience.

RileyG said:

There is no hate. Just because you do not endorse or agree with someone’s lifestyle doesn’t mean you hate the person.

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Calling for mass executions of gay people - different examples above- is hate.
Deciding from the go that children will suffer is hate.
Using quotation marks at every mentioning of same sex marriage is hate.

RileyG said:

The faithful have every right to say no to endorsing any same sex “wedding.” They have a right to follow their conscience.

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The faithful - yes. And their voice will carry no more weight than that of every (in this case Greek) citizen. The church, no.

linux.poet said:

This means that I adopted a masculine temperament and was criticized by my female peer group for not performing as a woman. To this day it’s easier for me to get along with men and boys in my life and I still struggle with makeup and being female, getting along with women, and dealing with my significant quantity of masculine hobbies. I was fortunate that my mom taught me how to sew and how to read and how to study the Scriptures, at least. These are all things that Christian women are expected to do, in addition to cooking delicious baked goods (the latter of which I had to learn on my own).

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Your previous post tugged at my emotional heartstrings.

linux.poet said:

It’s not terrible to be criticized.

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Some can take criticism better than others and you might be one in a million. When I'm criticized I don't like it unless it's the constructive type.

linux.poet said:

The verse in Leviticus makes clear that there is a difference between rebuke (criticism) and hatred. If we brand all criticism as hatred, we sink to the level of our enemies who will not accept criticism for their sinful practices and label it as hatred. We must learn to accept Biblical criticism and rebuke as part of the sanctification process.

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I get you on the bible. Who did Jesus openly rebuke? Take the example of Jesus and the Samaritan woman taboo, Jesus gave the message of God, drinking the water to eternal life then Jesus mentioned her prior husbands with no rebuke, He truly knows we are all sinners. How can you say we are being Christ like?
John 4
25 The woman said, “I know that Messiah” (called Christ) “is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us.”

26 Then Jesus declared, “I, the one speaking to you—I am he.”

Why generate animosity through our rebukes to keep the warfare going? To put it plainly, Jesus's ministry was about interacting with sinners for the kingdom.

linux.poet said:

The rest of this post strikes me as defensive of single parent upbringing, so I don’t want to wade into those waters. Please note that some folks have more psychological resilience than others, and also waiting for your dad to come home from war is a LOT different from having no father at all. There’s no sense of abandonment and the torturous unknown for who your father is and why he left, was it your fault? and so on that kids with truly missing dads can go through.

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No just a little of my history. I hope you realize there are some comparable types for similar child victimization arguments. Looking outside the window you'll see that heterosexuals have traumatized children acting up also. Our kids need love and hope not the constant negative or tribal stuff. Since we know kids are being raised in homosexual families are we going to continue generational warfare on the kids by rebuking them or their parents?

driewerf said:

Calling for mass executions of gay people - different examples above- is hate.
Deciding from the go that children will suffer is hate.
Using quotation marks at every mentioning of same sex marriage is hate.

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Some people believe marriage is between one man and one woman only. Using quotation marks is NOT hate.

driewerf said:

The faithful - yes. And their voice will carry no more weight than that of every (in this case Greek) citizen. The church, no.

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If they are faithful to church teaching they have every right to say no. It’s their right.

driewerf said:

You should. For it is secular law that regulates our behaviour here on Earth. Brek it and you can be exposed to fines or even jail time. And these things are real.

Nonsense. Ignoring the fact that we are not created, male and female stay what they are and have always been. A change in matrimonial law doesn't change that. What changes is that Same Sex Couples can now register their relationship in the same way as "traditional" couples, with the same legal rights and protection.

No. Secularists - contrasting with religionists - understand the separation of church and state very well. You guys should do well to study and understand that difference too. It will avoid an embarrassing display of ignorance - and ignorance is the most charitable assessment - when discussing secular law.

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You seem to be concerned to what the Church preaches internally for its congregants’ faith and salvation. Does it pose a problem to you if a Christian obeys the secular law, renders unto Caesar and says to be Christian involves repentance & remission of sin that might be counter to what secularism enshrines?

Hans Blaster said:

"The West" basically started in Greece 2500 years ago or so.

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Maybe so, but just because something starts somewhere doesn't mean it's going to end up in the right place. For example, if I start my car in Seattle intending to drive to Texas, I could make bad decisions and wrong turns and end up in...God forbid...San Francisco.

RileyG said:

Some people believe marriage is between one man and one woman only. Using quotation marks is NOT hate.

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The Sacrament of Holy Matrimony is between one man and women. Civil marriage is a legal arrangement. That's why when Christians marry they get both. Gays only get civil marriage. The unqualified term "marriage" does not belong to Christians.

driewerf said:

Calling for mass executions of gay people - different examples above- is hate.
Deciding from the go that children will suffer is hate.
Using quotation marks at every mentioning of same sex marriage is hate.

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EVERYONE! MAY I HAVE YOUR ATTENTION PLEASE! THERE'S A NEW RULE! USING QUOTATION MARKS IS HATE!!!

BCP1928 said:

The Sacrament of Holy Matrimony is between one man and women. Civil marriage is a legal arrangement. That's why when Christians marry they get both. Gays only get civil marriage. The unqualified term "marriage" does not belong to Christians.

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Regardless, some people see marriage as a whole, between one man and one woman regardless if it’s a legal arrangement or not.

RileyG said:

Regardless, some people see marriage as a whole, between one man and one woman regardless if it’s a legal arrangement or not.

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That's right, they can see it however they want. Others are free to ignore them.

This is probably going to happen eventually across all of Europe, with the possible exception of nations that are fighting other, bigger problems (e.g., dictatorship), like Russia or Belarus. Wake me up in a few thousand years when it gets to some of the more western-looking MENA countries like Lebanon or Tunisia.