Lord, Lord, Didn't We. . .

Bible Highlighter · Feb 8, 2016

thatbrian said:
Strong words, but entirely true.

The glory of the gospel is that God makes a wretch like me, a scoffer like me, a failure like me. . . a son. A son that He will never disown. A son that He will give an inheritance to. A son that He will love forever.

He came for sinners. . .

He came for sinners so that they might repent of their sins, and not so that they would remain in their sins. You cannot make the word "repent" mean a change of mind or something else because Jesus already defined what repentance means for us. He said the Ninevites will rise up against this generation because they repented at the preaching of Jonah. If you were to turn to Jonah chapter 3, you would see that the King of Nineveh had proclaimed a fast, for them to be in sackcloth, ashes, and to call out to God (for forgiveness) (Sinner's Prayer - i.e. Repentance) and then they turned from their evil or wicked ways (i.e. the Fruits of Repentance or the other side of the coin of Repentance).

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jimmyjimmy · Feb 8, 2016

Jason0047 said:
He came for sinners so that they might repent of their sins, and not so that they would remain in their sins. You cannot make the word "repent" mean a change of mind or something else because Jesus already defined what repentance means for us. He said the Ninevites will rise up against this generation because they repented at the preaching of Jonah. If you were to turn to Jonah chapter 3, you would see that the King of Nineveh had proclaimed a fast, for them to be in sackcloth, ashes, and to call out to God (for forgiveness) (Sinner's Prayer - i.e. Repentance) and then they turned from their evil or wicked ways (i.e. the Fruits of Repentance or the other side of the coin of Repentance).

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Where are all of these people how upon turning live a perfectly sinless life? I don't see them in my church, and I don't see them in ANY new testament church. You are the only one, Jason.

Bible Highlighter · Feb 8, 2016

thatbrian said:
Where are all of these people how upon turning live a perfectly sinless life? I don't see them in my church, and I don't see them in ANY new testament church. You are the only one, Jason.

Narrow is the way that leads unto life and FEW be there that find it (And not many). So it is not going to be the MANY that you see around you but the FEW. For as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be in the coming of the Son of Man. Many are going to miss the boat because they wanted to live their life of sin or in having a little bit of their sin (While they did their good deeds). Graned, there will be more believers than during Noah's time at the coming of the next major Judgment upon this world, but the point is that the Flood was an example to all who should live ungodly there after and that it is the FEW and not the MANY that you will see around you who is living according to God's Word.

For in the last days, the love of many will wax cold. We are nearing closer and closer towards the end times. People are less and less loving. Many (not all) have their conscience seared with a hot iron. For they sin and think they can also be holy and serve God, too. But no man can serve two masters, though. It doesn't work like that. The Bible does not give believers no exemption on the Lake of Fire if they were to go back to murdering, raping, stealing, fornicating, etc. (Even if it was done on occasion with them confessing of such a sin). For confessing sin (Whereby one can be forgiven of sin) does not work if you plan on continuing in that sin.

Also, in the Parable of the Two Sons in Matthew 21:29-32, Jesus said that the one who did the will of the Father was the one who repented and did what his Lord said. In verse 32, Jesus talks to the chief priests and scribes (Matthew 21:14-16 NIV) about how they have not repented not after (meaning to turn away from one's wicked ways) as a part of their repentance (i.e. crying out to God for forgiveness). For repentance can refer to both the Sinner's Prayer and to turning from one's wicked ways. For they are two sides of the same coin.

...

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jimmyjimmy · Feb 8, 2016

Jason0047 said:
Narrow is the way that leads unto life and FEW be there that find it (And not many). So it is not going to be the MANY that you see around you but the FEW. For as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be in the coming of the Son of Man. Many are going to miss the boat because they wanted to live their life of sin or in having a little bit of their sin (While they did their good deeds). Graned, there will be more believers than during Noah's time at the coming of the next major Judgment upon this world, but the point is that the Flood was an example to all who should live ungodly there after and that it is the FEW and not the MANY that you will see around you who is living according to God's Word.

For in the last days, the love of many will wax cold. We are nearing closer and closer towards the end times. People are less and less loving. Many (not all) have their conscience seared with a hot iron. For they sin and think they can also be holy and serve God, too. But no man can serve two masters, though. It doesn't work like that. The Bible does not give believers no exemption on the Lake of Fire if they were to go back to murdering, raping, stealing, fornicating, etc. (Even if it was done on occasion with them confessing of such a sin). For confessing sin (Whereby one can be forgiven of sin) does not work if you plan on continuing in that sin.

Also, in the Parable of the Two Sons in Matthew 21:29-32, Jesus said that the one who did the will of the Father was the one who repented and did what his Lord said. In verse 32, Jesus talks to the chief priests and scribes (Matthew 21:14-16 NIV) about how they have not repented not after (meaning to turn away from one's wicked ways) as a part of their repentance (i.e. crying out to God for forgiveness). For repentance can refer to both the Sinner's Prayer and to turning from one's wicked ways. For they are two sides of the same coin.

...

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So, is it your assertion that most of the people in the church in Corinth were not believers or that they lost their salvation?

-57 · Feb 8, 2016

Jason0047 said:
He came for sinners so that they might repent of their sins, and not so that they would remain in their sins. You cannot make the word "repent" mean a change of mind or something else because Jesus already defined what repentance means for us. He said the Ninevites will rise up against this generation because they repented at the preaching of Jonah. If you were to turn to Jonah chapter 3, you would see that the King of Nineveh had proclaimed a fast, for them to be in sackcloth, ashes, and to call out to God (for forgiveness) (Sinner's Prayer - i.e. Repentance) and then they turned from their evil or wicked ways (i.e. the Fruits of Repentance or the other side of the coin of Repentance).

...

Jason, repenting is turning from your I have to not sin, be perfect...theology...to Gods way of receiving redemption.

One problem is that you still sin...so how will you enter in through the narrow gate?

jimmyjimmy · Feb 8, 2016

Christ is the narrow gate! Do you comprehend what that means, Jason?

Bible Highlighter · Feb 9, 2016

thatbrian said:
So, is it your assertion that most of the people in the church in Corinth were not believers or that they lost their salvation?

No. We are merely living in different times than during the time Paul wrote to the church of Corinth. For Scripture says,

1 "This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as their's also was."
(2 Timothy 3:1-9).

In mean, honestly. When you read this passage above, how do you not think it is not talking about those individuals who think they can sin and still be saved (i.e. Those who do various sins and yet have a form of Godliness)? For this clearly sounds like the Eternal Security Proponent (not all of them) who thinks they can do evil and still be saved.

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jimmyjimmy · Feb 9, 2016

Jason0047 said:
In mean, honestly. When you read this passage above, how do you not think it is not talking about those individuals who think they can sin and still be saved

I mean, honestly. When you read the passage above, how do you not think it's speaking of you?

Bible Highlighter · Feb 9, 2016

thatbrian said:
Christ is the narrow gate! Do you comprehend what that means, Jason?

Jesus is the narrow way. This is very true. For Jesus is the WAY, the truth, and the life. But if you are a follower of Jesus Christ, you will also DO what He says, too. Why? Because Matthew 7:14 is in context to Matthew 7:21 and Matthew 7:26-27. Jesus says not every one who says unto Him, Lord, Lord will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but he that does the will of the Father (Matthew 7:21). What is the will of the Father? 1 Thessalonians 4:3 says the will of the Father is to be "holy" or it is our "Sanctification" (Which is a process to make us holy). In fact, Hebrews 12:14 says, without holiness, no man shall see the Lord. Matthew 7:26-27 also says that he that does not what Jesus says is like a fool who built his house upon the sand whereby when the storm came, great was the fall of that house. Jesus says elsewhere in Scripture, why do you call me Lord, Lord, and do not what I say? This would be evident that the person who is not doing what Jesus says would mean that Jesus is not their Lord (But they have another master that they follow instead). So belief alone is not going to cut it according to the Scriptures. For the type of belief that you propose (i.e. belief alone in Jesus is enough to save) does not exist in God's Word.

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Steeno7 · Feb 9, 2016

Jason0047 said:
No. We are merely living in different times than during the time Paul wrote to the church of Corinth. For Scripture says,

1 "This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as their's also was."
(2 Timothy 3:1-9).

In mean, honestly. When you read this passage above, how do you not think it is not talking about those individuals who think they can sin and still be saved (i.e. Those who do various sins and yet have a form of Godliness)? For this clearly sounds like the Eternal Security Proponent (not all of them) who thinks they can do evil and still be saved.

And yet, you sin and still think you're saved. Ironic.

Bible Highlighter · Feb 9, 2016

thatbrian said:
I mean, honestly. When you read the passage above, how do you not think it's speaking of you?

Because Conditional Security Proponents fear God and they do not want to abide in unrepentant sin because they realize that will cause them to lose their own soul. Also, the Conditional Security Proponents teaching also leads people into holiness (and away from sin) and not into some kind of "foot loose and fancy free game with sin" like Eternal Security allows for. For those who abide in sin and also have a form of Godliness does not sound like the Conditional Security Proponent who is in the Sanctification process and who is leading others into that process, as well. But when I have talked with the Eternal Security Proponent, in many cases, they seem to make room or an allowance for sin (Which would no doubt lead one down the wrong path of darkness of other sins; Sins that would be described on that list in 2 Timothy 3:1-9).

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Bible Highlighter · Feb 9, 2016

Steeno7 said:
And yet, you sin and still think you're saved. Ironic.

Not at all. I am not sinning now. I am also not planning on sinning in the future. And there are days I have not sinned. Also, I do not sin and think I am saved while I am sinning. I also do not believe I am conquered by sin, either. Every day is the new hope in Christ that I will not sin ever again by His power. When that day comes, I will give glory to Christ for it. Of course, you would not believe me in that day and you will still say that I am still sinning (Which would be a false accusation).

For what is the better alternative? To give into sin? Apparently you think it is better to just keep on sinning because you can't help it. Right?
Why fight against it? Does not the Lord call us to be holy? Did not Jesus say to two people to: "Sin no more"? Apparently you think He was talking about something else (But that is simply not true).

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Steeno7 · Feb 9, 2016

Jason0047 said:
Because Conditional Security Proponents fear God and they do not want to abide in unrepentant sin because they realize that will cause them to lose their own soul. Also, the Conditional Security Proponents teaching also leads people into holiness (and away from sin) and not into some kind of "foot loose and fancy free game with sin" like Eternal Security allows for. For those who abide in sin and also have a form of Godliness does not sound like the Conditional Security Proponent who is in the Sanctification process and who is leading others into that process, as well. But when I have talked with the Eternal Security Proponent, in many cases, they seem to make room or an allowance for sin (Which would no doubt lead one down the wrong path of darkness of other sins; Sins that would be described on that list in 2 Timothy 3:1-9).

Ironic, you make allowance for your own sin, but condemn theoretical "others" for doing what you yourself are guilty of.

Steeno7 · Feb 9, 2016

Jason0047 said:
Not at all. I am not sinning now. I am also not planning on sinning in the future. And there are days I have not sinned. Also, I do not sin and think I am saved while I am sinning. I also do not believe I am conquered by sin, either. Every day is the new hope in Christ that I will not sin ever again by His power. When that day comes, I will give glory to Christ for it. Of course, you would not believe me in that day and you will still say that I am still sinning (Which would be a false accusation).

For what is the better alternative? To give into sin? Apparently you think it is better to just keep on sinning because you can't help it. Right?
Why fight against it? Does not the Lord call us to be holy? Did not Jesus say to two people to: "Sin no more"? Apparently you think He was talking about something else (But that is simply not true).

So you claim to be without sin. Got it.

Bible Highlighter · Feb 9, 2016

-57 said:
Jason, repenting is turning from your I have to not sin, be perfect...theology...to Gods way of receiving redemption.

In the Parable of the Two Sons (Matthew 21:28-32), Jesus says to the chief priests and scribes (Matthew 21:14-15) that they did not repent afterwards (See Matthew 21:32) as a parallel to the parable he told about how the one son who did not the will of his father said he would go but did not go. The other son had repented and went and did the work in his father's vinyard. Meaning, this son had done the will of his father. For he obeyed him. This does not sound like Eternal Security but it sounds like the exact opposite of that. It also does not sound like a mental turning away from sin with no actual change in one's life, either. The one son had actually did what his father told him to do. The New Living Translation says this in regards to verse 32,

"For John the Baptist came and showed you the right way to live, but you didn’t believe him, while tax collectors and prostitutes did. And even when you saw this happening, you refused to believe him and repent of your sins." (Matthew 21:32) (New Living Translation).

One problem is that you still sin...so how will you enter in through the narrow gate?

How do you know what I will do tomorrow or the next day? Do you know there are days I do not sin? Can you say the same? Do you seek to put away sin out of your life or do you just give into it thinking it is impossible to overcome? Well, Scripture says,

"There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." (1 Corinthians 10:13).

So you have to choose. Either choose to believe this passage above, or continue to believe the lie Eternal Security has been feeding you, my friend. I choose God's Word instead.

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Bible Highlighter · Feb 9, 2016

Steeno7 said:
So you claim to be without sin. Got it.

I do not believe I am sinning now. Are you sinning now? Can you be without sin for 5 minutes? How about 10 minutes? How about a day? Can you get thru a day without sinning?

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Bible Highlighter · Feb 9, 2016

Steeno7 said:
Ironic, you make allowance for your own sin, but condemn theoretical "others" for doing what you yourself are guilty of.

All Eternal Security Proponents falsely interpret 1 John 1:8 to mean that they will always sin. So I do not see how you can claim that the Eternal Security Proponent can think that they can stop sinning (When they do not really believe that).

How do we understand 1 John 1:8? Well, 1 John 1:8 must be read in context to 1 John 2:4. He that says he knows him and does not keep his commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him (1 John 2:4). 1 John 3:8 says sin is transgression of the Law (i.e. Commandment). So for a believer who says he knows God will always sin or break God's Commandments would be a liar according to 1 John 2:4.

Actually, 1 John 1:8 is talking about those who are saying they have no sin even if they are sinning presently. This would be a warning against the Eternal Security Proponent who thinks all their present future sin are paid for. Meaning, they can say they are without sin on a spiritual level because Jesus paid for all their sins. So they can sin and still be saved. But they would be viiolating both 1 John 1:8 and 1 John 1:9. For 1 John 1:9 is saying that we are actually FORGIVEN .... if.... if.... we confess our sins.

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Bible Highlighter · Feb 9, 2016

thatbrian said:
I didn't say that. I don't know what dead faith is.

We are told to repent of having both a dead faith and in having dead works towards God in Hebrews 6:1. Repentance is something Jesus Christ commanded of people so as to get their hearts right with God.

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Steeno7 · Feb 9, 2016

Jason0047 said:
I do not believe I am sinning now. Are you sinning now? Can you be without sin for 5 minutes? How about 10 minutes? How about a day? Can you get thru a day without sinning?

That you do not believe you are sinning, is exactly the problem.

Steeno7 · Feb 9, 2016

Jason0047 said:
All Eternal Security Proponents falsely interpret 1 John 1:8 to mean that they will always sin. So I do not see how you can claim that the Eternal Security Proponent can think that they can stop sinning (When they do not really believe that).

How do we understand 1 John 1:8? Well, 1 John 1:8 must be read in context to 1 John 2:4. He that says he knows him and does not keep his commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him (1 John 2:4). 1 John 3:8 says sin is transgression of the Law (i.e. Commandment). So for a believer who says he knows God will always sin or break God's Commandments would be a liar according to 1 John 2:4.

Actually, 1 John 1:8 is talking about those who are saying they have no sin even if they are sinning presently. This would be a warning against the Eternal Security Proponent who thinks all their present future sin are paid for. Meaning, they can say they are without sin on a spiritual level because Jesus paid for all their sins. So they can sin and still be saved. But they would be viiolating both 1 John 1:8 and 1 John 1:9. For 1 John 1:9 is saying that we are actually FORGIVEN .... if.... if.... we confess our sins.

Actually no, 1 John 1:8 is speaking about you. And 1 John 1:9 isn't going to help you when you are in denial about what sin is and just how sinful you really are.

Lord, Lord, Didn't We. . .

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Pardoned Rebel

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Not I...but Christ

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Not I...but Christ

Not I...but Christ

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Not I...but Christ

Not I...but Christ

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