Which flag offends you more?
- Thread starter KarateCowboy
- Start date
No, I am judging them based upon their actions. The segregationists put that up as a symbol of defiance.
They are free to have the symbol mean whatever it means to them, but, it says a lot about someone when they willingly co-opt a symbol such as a battle flag of a secessionist movement that did so to keep a great many people enslaved.
To do so and not recognize the shameful history of what it stands for is what is at issue here.
The south should be ashamed of the iconography civil war and segregation, not reveling in it.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
The institution of slavery and segregation were hateful, the south rebelled to protect slavery, then they spent the next hundred years resisting equality, hate may not be strong enough a word.
Russians can be proud to be Russians without adopting iconography of the U.S.S.R. ,Germans can be proud to be Germans without reveling in the iconography of the third Reich, and Southerners can be proud to be Southerners without reveling in the history of the Civil War.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
By Jim Brown;
It looks like it's time to get out the soap powder.. Numerous elected officials are jumping all over themselves to call for the banishment of whatever tattered remnants are left from the aftermath of the Civil War. Not just flags, but monuments, names, Dukes of Hazzard, Aunt Jemima syrup, Uncle Ben's rice, Gone with the Wind, they all gotta go. The cultural cleansing in the Bayou state has begun.
The current focus of obliterating the past is on the Confederate flag flying about the South Carolina state capitol. Of course the flag should come down, and should have been lowered years ago. But the question is, just how far should government bodies go to pacify those who feel offended by tax dollars being used to maintain past symbols; reminders of a once divisive nation that are an affront to many black Americans.
Actually, despite newspaper accounts otherwise, the Confederate flag never flew above the state capitol in Baton Rouge, both during the time of the Civil War, and in the years afterword. Louisiana adopted its own flag of secession, comprised of a yellow star on a red background. What to see what it looked like? Check out the present flag of Viet Nam.
So what happens now? Do reasonable voices want to open up a discussion to learn from history, or will there be an emotional reaction to determine and shape history? Do we purge symbols and inscriptions of the past that causes discomfort to some? Isn't that what ISIS is doing in the Middle East right now; wiping out monuments that commemorate both the good and the bad of a region's history?
If there is an effort to wash away memorials that defined the state's mindset of slave ownership at a certain time in its past, then just how far does the "cleansing" go? There is a call in New Orleans to take down the statute of General Robert E. Lee since he led the war effort for the South. Lee never owned a slave. The leader of the Union Army and future president General Ulysses S. Grant was a slave owner. Go figure.
Do we change the name of Grant Parish in my home state of Louisiana to dishonor the Union president who himself was the owner of slaves? For that matter, what about the nation's first president George Washington, who owned 316 slaves? Should folks in Washington Parish start searching for a new name? How about Jefferson Parish, whose presidential namesake owned 171 slaves and fathered several children by one? The same concerns are now front and center for those who live in Madison and Jackson Parishes, both named after slaveholding presidents. In fact, eleven presidents were slave owners.
Jefferson Davis Parish is certainly at risk along with Ft. Polk, named after Confederate General Leonidas Polk. And families in Lafayette may witness an assault on the statute of Louisiana Governor, U.S. Senator and Confederate General Alexandre Mouton who was president of the state's secession convention to leave the union 1861.
Now, for a real shocker! The LSU Tigers were named after a Confederate Army unit called the Louisiana Fighting Tigers that fought in a number of Civil War encounters, often joined in battle with another Louisiana unit call the Pelican Brigade. So if some within the state's leadership feel pressure to demonize the past, then could we see a name change from the LSU Fightin Tigers in favor of a name more politically correct? The same goes for Tom Benson's New Orleans basketball Pelicans, right?
And let's not even get started on the plight of the American Indian, whose tribes were assaulted, sometimes massacred and eradicated as America expanded to the West, all under the red, white and blue. Not a Confederate flag, but the American flag. Is what's good for the goose, good for the gander, or do we ignore this wretched period of American history?
A cultural purge of historical monuments, as ISIS continues to carry out throughout the Middle East, opens old wounds, and stands in the way of meaningful understanding of a new generation living in a new South. Political grandstanding can do little more than widen an already growing racial divide. Learning from history should be the bellwether, not a doleful attempt to rewrite the colorful and often controversial highs and lows of our nation's past.
"The most effective way to destroy people is to deny and obliterate their own understanding of their history."
- George Orwell
Peace and Justice
Jim Brown - columnist
It looks like it's time to get out the soap powder.. Numerous elected officials are jumping all over themselves to call for the banishment of whatever tattered remnants are left from the aftermath of the Civil War. Not just flags, but monuments, names, Dukes of Hazzard, Aunt Jemima syrup, Uncle Ben's rice, Gone with the Wind, they all gotta go. The cultural cleansing in the Bayou state has begun.
The current focus of obliterating the past is on the Confederate flag flying about the South Carolina state capitol. Of course the flag should come down, and should have been lowered years ago. But the question is, just how far should government bodies go to pacify those who feel offended by tax dollars being used to maintain past symbols; reminders of a once divisive nation that are an affront to many black Americans.
Actually, despite newspaper accounts otherwise, the Confederate flag never flew above the state capitol in Baton Rouge, both during the time of the Civil War, and in the years afterword. Louisiana adopted its own flag of secession, comprised of a yellow star on a red background. What to see what it looked like? Check out the present flag of Viet Nam.
So what happens now? Do reasonable voices want to open up a discussion to learn from history, or will there be an emotional reaction to determine and shape history? Do we purge symbols and inscriptions of the past that causes discomfort to some? Isn't that what ISIS is doing in the Middle East right now; wiping out monuments that commemorate both the good and the bad of a region's history?
If there is an effort to wash away memorials that defined the state's mindset of slave ownership at a certain time in its past, then just how far does the "cleansing" go? There is a call in New Orleans to take down the statute of General Robert E. Lee since he led the war effort for the South. Lee never owned a slave. The leader of the Union Army and future president General Ulysses S. Grant was a slave owner. Go figure.
Do we change the name of Grant Parish in my home state of Louisiana to dishonor the Union president who himself was the owner of slaves? For that matter, what about the nation's first president George Washington, who owned 316 slaves? Should folks in Washington Parish start searching for a new name? How about Jefferson Parish, whose presidential namesake owned 171 slaves and fathered several children by one? The same concerns are now front and center for those who live in Madison and Jackson Parishes, both named after slaveholding presidents. In fact, eleven presidents were slave owners.
Jefferson Davis Parish is certainly at risk along with Ft. Polk, named after Confederate General Leonidas Polk. And families in Lafayette may witness an assault on the statute of Louisiana Governor, U.S. Senator and Confederate General Alexandre Mouton who was president of the state's secession convention to leave the union 1861.
Now, for a real shocker! The LSU Tigers were named after a Confederate Army unit called the Louisiana Fighting Tigers that fought in a number of Civil War encounters, often joined in battle with another Louisiana unit call the Pelican Brigade. So if some within the state's leadership feel pressure to demonize the past, then could we see a name change from the LSU Fightin Tigers in favor of a name more politically correct? The same goes for Tom Benson's New Orleans basketball Pelicans, right?
And let's not even get started on the plight of the American Indian, whose tribes were assaulted, sometimes massacred and eradicated as America expanded to the West, all under the red, white and blue. Not a Confederate flag, but the American flag. Is what's good for the goose, good for the gander, or do we ignore this wretched period of American history?
A cultural purge of historical monuments, as ISIS continues to carry out throughout the Middle East, opens old wounds, and stands in the way of meaningful understanding of a new generation living in a new South. Political grandstanding can do little more than widen an already growing racial divide. Learning from history should be the bellwether, not a doleful attempt to rewrite the colorful and often controversial highs and lows of our nation's past.
"The most effective way to destroy people is to deny and obliterate their own understanding of their history."
- George Orwell
Peace and Justice
Jim Brown - columnist
Upvote
0
Um no.
ISIS is in no way democratically debating whether or not to fly the symbol of the confederacy on the state house grounds. They are tipping over monuments that offend their religion.
We should have more history, actually teaching kids what the civil war entailed, why it was fought, every gritty detail, instead of the white washing that went on after the Civil War ended.
Upvote
0
AHH who-stole-my-name
in accordance with Christ
How do you know every one of them had the same mindset as far as anything? You make blanket statements about these people based on nothing more than your own feelings.
It says nothing to anyone except yourself because to you that is the only issue.
I'm happy you feel that way. It's consistent with everything you've said and why you are prejudice about the subject. You assume your understanding of things is theirs and condemn them for that.
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
Actions. We can judge that the white supremacists and segregationists were in control of the South Carolina legislature at the time.
It doesn't matter if they all agreed to a man.
You can hoist a flag and say you did so for only the reasons that make you feel good, but it is just ignorant to say it indeed only means those things when, history says differn't.
No I am assuming they either understand what I am saying or are ignorant.
The very shameful history of the southern confederacy is there for everyone to see.
Upvote
0
AHH who-stole-my-name
in accordance with Christ
Yes it does. It matters to a person, since individuals vote and it is individuals who change the world by speaking their minds and bringing reason closer to reality every day. Change does not happen quickly and never has when dealing with ideology. How many great men have changed the world from inside a cesspool. I would wager all of them. You would just throw them into the small category and dismiss them. How many opportunities have been lost by driving people away through bigotry and prejudice. I'd wager a good many and those people might just be the people who have the answers society needs to hear.
Again you are doing others thinking for them. History speaks only through the eyes of those who see it. The rest are only interpretations of interpretations.
only if you stand in a mirror with blinders on.
Upvote
0
Look you want to live in a dream world where the confederate flag has nothing to do with the secessionist and segregationist who flew the darned thing, go right ahead.
It's going to come down, if not now then soon, and it's going to come down for all the right reasons. Mainly that the current generation in the south is repudiating the mistakes of the past.
And if you don't like it tough.
Upvote
0
Avid
A Pilgrim and a Sojourner...
It seems to be that on the surface, but it is alarming to hear the number of suggestions that the US Flag, also, be removed from display. That is an ulterior motive of those pushing the idea of banning display of certain things some people hold dear.
The fact is that regardless of how offensive it is, if it isn't used to smother anyone, it is not so dangerous as people like to think. A determined mass murderer may attach himself to a plain white flag if he has some idea do such a thing. He would not need a hundred-fifty year old symbol.
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
TLK Valentine
I've already read the books you want burned.
- Apr 15, 2012
- 64,493
- 30,319
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Agnostic
- Marital Status
- Single
Upvote
0
I know that that secession was mainly over the issue of the south wanting to protect the institution of slavery. You can either believe me or you can believe them, as they wrote out their reasons for seceding...
Last edited:
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
And the issue at hand is whether or not the government should be displaying it not individual censorship.
If it didn't mean anything we wouldn't be having the argument.
Upvote
0
Similar threads
- Poll
