Accountability in the Church

[Gentle Lamb]

How can accountability in the church be encouraged to help keep both the shepherds and the sheep on the straight and narrow path of salvation? How did the modern day church even evolve to the point where Pastors are seen as untouchable authoritarian figures who are allowed to do whatever they want to the sheep? The bible says that if a man cannot manage his own household then he should not lead the household of God. The bible also details that the man leading the church should also have a good, self-controlled character that is not violent, lacks love of money, etc.

1 Timothy 3
1This is a trustworthy saying: “If someone aspires to be a church leader,a he desires an honorable position.” 2So a church leader must be a man whose life is above reproach. He must be faithful to his wife.b He must exercise self-control, live wisely, and have a good reputation. He must enjoy having guests in his home, and he must be able to teach. 3He must not be a heavy drinkerc or be violent. He must be gentle, not quarrelsome, and not love money. 4He must manage his own family well, having children who respect and obey him. 5For if a man cannot manage his own household, how can he take care of God’s church?

There are many examples where the households of Pastors are in shambles, and it eventually brings down the whole ministry of the Pastor. Scandals such as violent tempers, sexual immorality among the members of the household, incredible greed, disrespectful, wayward, lost, at times addicted, and even suicidal children bent on self destruction who are casualties of their parents ministry, etc. How can these things be addressed? What is the best way to keep the shepherds accountable to the sheep and vice versa so that all can continue to exhort each other to Godliness and holiness according to Hebrews 10:25 (25Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.)? Many discouraging things are happening in churches to the point where some people are being completely turned off to church forever and do not want to have fellowship in church anymore due to the levels of scandals taking place.

 

[Carl Emerson]

How can accountability in the church be encouraged to help keep both the shepherds and the sheep on the straight and narrow path of salvation? How did the modern day church even evolve to the point where Pastors are seen as untouchable authoritarian figures who are allowed to do whatever they want to the sheep? The bible says that if a man cannot manage his own household then he should not lead the household of God. The bible also details that the man leading the church should also have a good, self-controlled character that is not violent, lacks love of money, etc.

1 Timothy 3
1This is a trustworthy saying: “If someone aspires to be a church leader,a he desires an honorable position.” 2So a church leader must be a man whose life is above reproach. He must be faithful to his wife.b He must exercise self-control, live wisely, and have a good reputation. He must enjoy having guests in his home, and he must be able to teach. 3He must not be a heavy drinkerc or be violent. He must be gentle, not quarrelsome, and not love money. 4He must manage his own family well, having children who respect and obey him. 5For if a man cannot manage his own household, how can he take care of God’s church?

There are many examples where the households of Pastors are in shambles, and it eventually brings down the whole ministry of the Pastor. Scandals such as violent tempers, sexual immorality among the members of the household, incredible greed, disrespectful, wayward, lost, at times addicted, and even suicidal children bent on self destruction who are casualties of their parents ministry, etc. How can these things be addressed? What is the best way to keep the shepherds accountable to the sheep and vice versa so that all can continue to exhort each other to Godliness and holiness according to Hebrews 10:25 (25Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.)? Many discouraging things are happening in churches to the point where some people are being completely turned off to church forever and do not want to have fellowship in church anymore due to the levels of scandals taking place.

I think one of the reasons is that the first 5 chapters of Acts are not taken seriously.

Unity among believers should be foundational and love the glue that holds everthing together.

The least should be heard.

There needs to be a return to first love as the early church experienced it.

Theologians have steered Christian thought away from this possibility.

Christian family should be fostered to show the world the Love of Jesus as He prayed in John 17.

We have to depart from the business model of church.

My first few thoughts.

 

[St_Worm2]

Hello @Gentle Lamb, I believe that what you speak of is far more problematic in churches/denominations (and cults) where the church polity is "episcopalian" in nature.

On the other hand, churches/denominations where the governing authority rests in the hands of an elected board of presbyters/elders ("presbyterian government") and/or with the congregation itself ("congregational government") means that the pastorate is accountable to them (to the elder board and/or to the congregation).

I'm formerly Presbyterian but am now part of the Evangelical Free Church of America, a denomination which established a congregational style government for each of our local congregations. So, we have monthly "business" meetings where the congregation votes (among other things) to elect a body of elders (every three years) and deacons (every two years) to represent us in our everyday/ongoing matters. The monthly business meeting is also where we vote on any major changes to our church that our church needs (especially if it requires a change to the established budget to accomplish), as well the hiring and/or firing of our pastors and any other employees. In fact, it was at our last business meeting that we voted to install a new senior pastor, as well voted to make our former senior pastor (of 40+ years, who wanted to begin to move towards retirement) pastor "emeritus" (a change which was made official in church two days ago).

So, if a pastor becomes problematic for whatever reason in our church, we, as a congregation, have the authority to keep him on or to let him go (and we have done both over the years).

God bless you!!

--David
p.s. - our pastorate is also held accountable by a local group of Evangelical Free pastors from other churches in our area, and likewise they (this local group of pastors) by our denomination.

 

[timothyu]

How can accountability in the church be encouraged to help keep both the shepherds and the sheep on the straight and narrow path of salvation?

Remember that in the beginning Christianity was not an institution but a movement of people which grew beyond the borders of the Hebrew people. It was never meant to become a government or organisation as the large numbers would lead to it's fall by turning it into another human kingdom such as the Sanhedrin. Again, it was meant to be a movement of people caring for people and really nothing more other than telling the good news God had put in motion a plan to take away authority from adversarial spirits, both elohim and return Himself as the sole will to be followed. There as no need for anything else as God was in control and not man, so it was a simple matter for local communities to follow this under an elder, a role model and keeper of the movement/faith, rather than of the people or an institution.

How did the modern day church even evolve to the point where Pastors are seen as untouchable authoritarian figures who are allowed to do whatever they want to the sheep?

Man did as man has always done and sought control and power. Even though we had explicit orders from God to care for each other and tell of the good news God was returning, the adversarial man took it as an opportunity to setup their own kingdoms and joined these mini kingdoms to the adversarial world of man by whoring itself to the Roman Empire. This grew until the final slap in God's face where they took it upon themselves to make Christianity about ourselves rather than God's will, what was in it for us rather than being happy for Him. They abandoned God's will and thus became just another government of mankind. Just another institution that could control the people rather than care for them and serve them. The people ended up serving them like with any other human government. The blind have led the blind ever since following a worldly government using God as it's platform. Jesus said His church (people) would follow God's truth alone. Quite the difference. The religion became one where man followed man. Few follow the original movement. We are of the same adversarial flesh as the fallen elohim and have no problem going along with any lies that keep us serving ourselves.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

How can accountability in the church be encouraged to help keep both the shepherds and the sheep on the straight and narrow path of salvation? How did the modern day church even evolve to the point where Pastors are seen as untouchable authoritarian figures who are allowed to do whatever they want to the sheep? The bible says that if a man cannot manage his own household then he should not lead the household of God. The bible also details that the man leading the church should also have a good, self-controlled character that is not violent, lacks love of money, etc.

1 Timothy 3
1This is a trustworthy saying: “If someone aspires to be a church leader,a he desires an honorable position.” 2So a church leader must be a man whose life is above reproach. He must be faithful to his wife.b He must exercise self-control, live wisely, and have a good reputation. He must enjoy having guests in his home, and he must be able to teach. 3He must not be a heavy drinkerc or be violent. He must be gentle, not quarrelsome, and not love money. 4He must manage his own family well, having children who respect and obey him. 5For if a man cannot manage his own household, how can he take care of God’s church?

There are many examples where the households of Pastors are in shambles, and it eventually brings down the whole ministry of the Pastor. Scandals such as violent tempers, sexual immorality among the members of the household, incredible greed, disrespectful, wayward, lost, at times addicted, and even suicidal children bent on self destruction who are casualties of their parents ministry, etc. How can these things be addressed? What is the best way to keep the shepherds accountable to the sheep and vice versa so that all can continue to exhort each other to Godliness and holiness according to Hebrews 10:25 (25Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.)? Many discouraging things are happening in churches to the point where some people are being completely turned off to church forever and do not want to have fellowship in church anymore due to the levels of scandals taking place.

The Bible is the standard for determining what is and what is not God's will. If there is an issue that requires judgment and sound decision making, one has to search the Scriptures for God's answer to it.

 

[Carl Emerson]

The Bible is the standard for determining what is and what is not God's will. If there is an issue that requires judgment and sound decision making, one has to search the Scriptures for God's answer to it.

So seeking God for guidance wont cut it ? Prayerfully waiting on Him for insight is a waste of time ? Fasting together for confirmation ? Nope not that either...

I guess if you only have the book and not the Holy Spirit there is no other choice.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

So seeking God for guidance wont cut it ? Prayerfully waiting on Him for insight is a waste of time ? Fasting together for confirmation ? Nope not that either...

I guess if you only have the book and not the Holy Spirit there is no other choice.

When I first became a Christian in the Lower Hutt AOG in 1966, the popular teaching was that the written Scriptures were the dead letter, and only the voice of the Spirit was the true Word of God. What I learned as I matured was that this was false teaching, and that the "dead letter" was the Mosaic Law, and that the written Scriptures were inspired by the Holy Spirit and He spoke clearly through them. The made the Bible and the Holy Spirit symbiotic therefore inseparable.

When Paul preached in the synagogue at Berea, the Bereans didn't spend time waiting on God for a voice confirming what Paul preached was the truth. They searched the Scriptures daily. They actually got hold of the book and looked it all up in there. These days many discard the book and seek for some kind of inner voice to guide them, and often that inner voice leads them up the wrong path into trouble because it in most cases ain't no Holy Spirit that is guiding them. When an aircraft develops a fault in mid flight, the pilots don't go into some kind a meditation to get an inner voice or impression to find out how to deal with the fault. They get the flight manual out and search the pages for the answer. When I had to assemble my desk from the flat pack, if I had gone to wait on God for a mental impression of how to do it, I wonder what sort of an aberration would have resulted? No. I consulted the instructions.

Also, there were many years when Israel was getting into all sorts of trouble is idolatry and sinful behaviour, because they were doing what seemed right for them. They were getting inner voices and impressions which mainly led them into idol worship and immorality. Then, I think it was King Josiah, found an old dusty book in the Temple. It was a copy of the Law. When he read it, he was shocked to see what God was saying in that book and what everyone was doing was contradictory, and what the people were doing was totally godless and causing the nation to fall into ruin and disaster. It was only when Josiah read the book to the people that a revival occurred and people got right with God. Without the book, they would not have been alerted to their godless ways.

 

[Carl Emerson]

When I first became a Christian in the Lower Hutt AOG in 1966, the popular teaching was that the written Scriptures were the dead letter, and only the voice of the Spirit was the true Word of God. What I learned as I matured was that this was false teaching, and that the "dead letter" was the Mosaic Law, and that the written Scriptures were inspired by the Holy Spirit and He spoke clearly through them. The made the Bible and the Holy Spirit symbiotic therefore inseparable.

When Paul preached in the synagogue at Berea, the Bereans didn't spend time waiting on God for a voice confirming what Paul preached was the truth. They searched the Scriptures daily. They actually got hold of the book and looked it all up in there. These days many discard the book and seek for some kind of inner voice to guide them, and often that inner voice leads them up the wrong path into trouble because it in most cases ain't no Holy Spirit that is guiding them. When an aircraft develops a fault in mid flight, the pilots don't go into some kind a meditation to get an inner voice or impression to find out how to deal with the fault. They get the flight manual out and search the pages for the answer. When I had to assemble my desk from the flat pack, if I had gone to wait on God for a mental impression of how to do it, I wonder what sort of an aberration would have resulted? No. I consulted the instructions.

Also, there were many years when Israel was getting into all sorts of trouble is idolatry and sinful behaviour, because they were doing what seemed right for them. They were getting inner voices and impressions which mainly led them into idol worship and immorality. Then, I think it was King Josiah, found an old dusty book in the Temple. It was a copy of the Law. When he read it, he was shocked to see what God was saying in that book and what everyone was doing was contradictory, and what the people were doing was totally godless and causing the nation to fall into ruin and disaster. It was only when Josiah read the book to the people that a revival occurred and people got right with God. Without the book, they would not have been alerted to their godless ways.

Friend, you subtly changed the subject - state one thing then debunk another.

You said "The Bible is the standard for determining what is and what is not God's will. If there is an issue that requires judgment and sound decision making, one has to search the Scriptures for God's answer to it."

So this was not a theological matter being checked.

Then you answer as if it was a theological matter.

Please let's not confuse the two.

Yes - be a Berean when it comes to theology - which only works mind you if the Holy Spirit gives understanding.

But let's not dismiss the central role of the third person of the trinity when it comes to which way forward in personal or church life.

The Pharisees has a lifetime of studying Scripture and got the fundamentals wrong.

 

[ARBITER01]

I guess if you only have the book and not the Holy Spirit there is no other choice.

That statement right there is the answer to a lot of the reasons for the arguments about the gifts and such on here. Some folks think all they need is their bibles and they are good, they refuse The Holy Spirit.

They will find out later that was a mistake.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Friend, you subtly changed the subject - state one thing then debunk another.

You said "The Bible is the standard for determining what is and what is not God's will. If there is an issue that requires judgment and sound decision making, one has to search the Scriptures for God's answer to it."

So this was not a theological matter being checked.

Then you answer as if it was a theological matter.

Please let's not confuse the two.

Yes - be a Berean when it comes to theology - which only works mind you if the Holy Spirit gives understanding.

But let's not dismiss the central role of the third person of the trinity when it comes to which way forward in personal or church life.

The Pharisees has a lifetime of studying Scripture and got the fundamentals wrong.

The Pharisees were not true priests and Levites. They were a cult that developed after the Maccabean period. They did not follow the Torah. They added to the Torah which evolved into the Tamud. They put their Tamud before the Scriptures and inserted their non-Biblical traditions and enforced them on to the people. If they did search the Scriptures, they would have twisted them to suit their own heretical ideas. They also sucked up to the Romans to keep them in the latter's good graces.

I give my opinion for what it is worth and leave others to check it out.

 

[Rose_bud]

No person or board is should be the authoritative ruler in the Church of Christ, only Christ is the Head of his Body. He calls the shots, exercising His rule through the local body, surrendered to His Spirit.

A good book on church government. Perspectives on Church Government: Five Views of Church Polity by Brand, Akin and Norman each provide scriptural support for there view.

For me the congregation-led government was more persuasive.

 

[Carl Emerson]

The Pharisees were not true priests and Levites. They were a cult that developed after the Maccabean period. They did not follow the Torah. They added to the Torah which evolved into the Tamud. They put their Tamud before the Scriptures and inserted their non-Biblical traditions and enforced them on to the people. If they did search the Scriptures, they would have twisted them to suit their own heretical ideas. They also sucked up to the Romans to keep them in the latter's good graces.

I give my opinion for what it is worth and leave others to check it out.

39 You examine the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is those very Scriptures that testify about Me; 40 and yet you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

39 You examine the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is those very Scriptures that testify about Me; 40 and yet you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.

Jesus said that to the Pharisees. Because they were godless cultish hypocrites they would have been blinded be the god of this world so that they would not have seen the glorious Gospel of Christ. But for genuinely converted believers filled with the Holy Spirit, the Bible is a living book, and according to what Paul said to Timothy that Scripture is breathed out by God and suitable for reproof, exhortation, and training in sound doctrine (my paraphrase).

In other words, the Scripture is sufficient for all we need, and any spirit that tells us the contrary ain't no Holy Spirit!

 

[Carl Emerson]

In other words, the Scripture is sufficient for all we need, and any spirit that tells us the contrary ain't no Holy Spirit!

They are your words.

Seriously you dismiss the role of the Holy Spirit within believers to led them into ALL TRUTH...

This is true whether they happen to be reading the Bible or not.

The Bible is our first port of call when considering matters of doctrine and life principle.

Seeking the right timing of a Godly action however will likely require prayer and intercession, maybe fasting depending on how serious the matter is.

To dismiss these activities and say folks should only read their bibles sounds off.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

They are your words.

Seriously you dismiss the role of the Holy Spirit within believers to led them into ALL TRUTH...

This is true whether they happen to be reading the Bible or not.

The Bible is our first port of call when considering matters of doctrine and life principle.

Seeking the right timing of a Godly action however will likely require prayer and intercession, maybe fasting depending on how serious the matter is.

To dismiss these activities and say folks should only read their bibles sounds off.

I am not sure that I have made myself perfectly clear about how I go about my daily routine life. I don't ask for guidance about what I should be doing at any time. Because I have the indwelling Holy Spirit, he is there to guide my steps according to His will at any time. But I don't have to be aware of it unless He alerts me that I should do something or go somewhere. This does not come as a voice, but as a red light in my "waters". There are times when I will be an amber light as a caution that the direction may not be right and that I should check it out. But usually, I use my own brain and make decisions that seem appropriate to me.

Once I asked the Lord about guidance and immediately the verse came back to me, "Don't be like a horse or a mule that has to be led around with a bit and bridle." What this told me was that I did not have to get the Lord's permission for things concerning my routine life. I asked Him how I can know that what I am doing is His will. Another verse came to me, "A man may plan his way, but the Lord guides his steps." Ah! I thought. This means that I can make my own decisions and the Holy Spirit will guide my steps without me having to worry about it, but just to trust Him that He will guide me aright.

I asked him how I am going to know whether I am going astray. He gave me a mental picture of a road with electric fences on each side, and so if I strayed of the straight and narrow I would get a zap that put me on track. This has happened on a number of occasions.

Then the Lord gave me another verse: “Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make straight your paths.” (Proverbs 3:5-6). This means that I can trust in God, rest in Christ, make wise decisions, and the Lord will sort out the rest without me having to continually checking up on Him to make sure that I am doing everything right.

I have found that when the Holy Spirit has spoken to me, it has been a verse of Scripture that totally matches what He wants me to know. I don't need to have the Holy Spirit as a "spirit guide" in the same way that New Age people have. If I get some "word" from supposedly from the Spirit, I use the Scripture, "Do not believe every spirit but test the spirits whether they are from God or not". The way I do that is to search the Scriptures to see if what is being told to me is consistent with God has already said in the Bible. If I can't find anything, I totally reject what that spirit has said to me.

I remember back around 2012 I was asked to be the keynote speaker in the annual pastor's conference for East Waikato to be held in Matamata. When the time came closer, we had a family emergency that meant that I wouldn't be available that weekend. At the time I was disappointed, but found out later by my friend who took over the role, that they spent so much time having a worship session at the start of the conference, that there wasn't enough time to do justice to the opportunity. My friend said that the conference was a disappointment to him. I realised that my family emergency meant that I had dodged a bullet and saved me from travelling from Auckland to Matamata and spending money for overnight accommodation for nothing of value. That is a good example of the Holy Spirit intervening. Furthermore, the subject I was going to speak on turned out to be not supported in Scripture, and so I was prevented from making a serious error of doctrine for those people.

 

[Carl Emerson]

He alerts me that I should do something or go somewhere. This does not come as a voice, but as a red light in my "waters".

What does that mean ???

 

[Carl Emerson]

But I don't have to be aware of it unless He alerts me that I should do something or go somewhere.

That is exactly what I am trying to say.

Some of us are called to bring the gospel to folk at critical times, we had an elder driving with his family to the beach and the Lord indicated he was to stop and drive to his brother house immediately and found him on his knees on the floor ready to receive Jesus.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Anyway this is rather off topic so to respect the OP we should discuss this elsewhere.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

What does that mean ???

The Pentecostal terminology is "a check in the Spirit".

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

That is exactly what I am trying to say.

Some of us are called to bring the gospel to folk at critical times, we had an elder driving with his family to the beach and the Lord indicated he was to stop and drive to his brother house immediately and found him on his knees on the floor ready to receive Jesus.

The elder would have realised it was the Lord after the event, not before. He would have suddenly got a thought to do it and it was strong enough for him to obey it, and when he got to his brother's house and found him like that he knew that the thought really did come from the Lord.