What if it's just not a witch hunt?

[Ana the Ist]

He may no longer be coherent, but if you see tapes of him from the 80s or 90s he can complete a sentence and express an idea. He had a certain kind of charm suitable to sales and glad handing that works for some people, but not others. (He frankly reminds me of a car salesman. To me the worst part of buying a car was encountering salesmen like Trump.)

I don't know if I heard this from you before...but I have seen posters say something similar in the past.

Still, I don't see what this has to do with why anyone voted for him. You don't think anyone was voting for him based on how he sounded when talking about real estate markets in the past....do you?

 

[Hans Blaster]

I don't know if I heard this from you before...but I have seen posters say something similar in the past.

Still, I don't see what this has to do with why anyone voted for him. You don't think anyone was voting for him based on how he sounded when talking about real estate markets in the past....do you?

It's certainly not why I voted against him 3 times (2016 primary, both generals).

Like most threads this one has drifted a bit. My first impressions of Trump from the 80s were not favorable (I think the most accurate words are not permitted here) and my first reaction to his TV show was "why did they give that washed up businessman a TV show. Eventually, I realized the only the washed up would waste their time on a reality TV show. His "ideas" in politics were disturbing and his experiences were inadequate. (It turns out he's also very lazy, but we didn't realize that before he was elected.)

 

[Halbhh]

Do you really think that? I've seen clips of him speaking (never a whole speech) and I've read transcripts....

I wouldn't describe him as a good speaker. He seems to struggle to communicate effectively, stumbles over words and ideas, and often is just making "I can't tell you about it now, but trust me, I know what I'm doing" type claims.

In many ways, he's the antithesis of the liberal "intellectual" that the right sees on the left (even if it's not true). He's not talking down to the right....he's an idiot in a suit, but he sounds earnest to them.

Yes, and -- talking in a way some groups of people relate to is one key part of being a good talker/salesman. Biden is less consistently able to do so, though he has his moments when he does well at communicating.

But Trump is also very good at creating illusion.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Yes, and -- talking in a way some groups of people relate to is one key part of being a good talker/salesman. Biden is less consistently able to do so, though he has his moments when he does well at communicating.

But Trump is also very good at creating illusion.

I think that fundamentally, Americans hold some pretty serious illusions about politics. Our system encourages participation....but that is always from an outsider perspective. The result is either a state of ignorance about the difficulty of being a Senator, Congressman, or President...or a bit of self deception.

One side imagines those jobs as difficult....but they are smart enough to do them....and the vast majority of them (particularly the loudest) aren't remotely capable.

The other side doesn't think the government is very necessary, that they should be allowed to live as they wish, and as a result....sees it as a job that any with some common sense and a moral backbone can do....which is also wrong.

Given this crude generalization....it's not hard to see why one side has come to view government as the problem, all politicians as liars, and they have come to prefer as they described Bush "someone you can have a beer with". They like to see their politicians as alike to them...they want to see them hunting, going to church, and grilling out with the family. They don't want to hear about complex problems with complex answers by someone who thinks they are smart.

The other side runs into a completely different set of problems with incompetence. It's because they primarily believe their problems are in society itself...they tend to see government as the solution. If they can nail down the problem...they believe they can figure out the answer. In reality, complex societal problems are rarely simple....and in some cases, the results of being wrong in this way can be catastrophic.

It plays out in the garbage they feed their base. One side plays to fear....telling the base that if the other side gains control for too long, they will create a government so controlling that their nation and lives will become miserable and unrecognizable. That's why this side constantly conjures up Marxism...it's a perfect representation of fools gaining power and changing things to a ruinous effect.

The other side says it's their political opponents who are the problem in society and the solution is to keep them from having any control. They tell a story of resentment....of past grievances and what they believe should have been....and what could be if they finally get all the power. It's a strange story where they imagine the other side as both poor and ignorant and religious....and fabulously wealthy and powerful. There's always an explanation for the obvious contradiction....and it usually amounts to the fabulously wealthy somehow cheating, or gaming the "system" in some way, but the bottom line appears to be that whatever they have they didn't come by honestly and it should rightly be yours. That is essentially how they create resentment to play to their base.

 

[disciple Clint]

of course it wasn't. If it was you'd have to have an excuse for it...

fact.

But what if Trump is actually doingb things? . How Many Lawsuits Against Trump? [The 2020 Illustrated History]


https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...e-more-than-20000-false-or-misleading-claims/
my favourite thing about this is that the critics of this claim say this number is inflated because he told some lies multiple times (as though that somehow some makes the lie excusable) or are just because of his personality... Which is the problem.

Donald Trump: the 45th US President - and only third to be impeached

Donald Trump: textbook narcissist


no quotes available...maybe this one from some golf buddies
How Donald Trump cheats at golf even when playing against Tiger Woods

numerous threads with examples...simply too many to list here.

So Trump received 90% negative coverage from the MSM, what have you got in the way of facts? Donald Trump

 

[KCfromNC]

So Trump received 90% negative coverage from the MSM

Yeah, I'm disappointed they sugar coated the reality of his administration.

 

[rambot]

So Trump received 90% negative coverage from the MSM, what have you got in the way of facts? Donald Trump

this actually proves my point from a different thread. Trump used crisis after crisis so he never had to deal with the crisis he just had. Msm are obliged to cover it because it's news.
They can't let sharpiegate get away; They can't just let him pervert John McCain's memory.
But if Trump has another crisis two days later boom; we can forget this one. Naomi Kleine wrote a whole Book on this strategy ("The Shock Doctrine", I think)

What if 90% of the time he was a crap president? I mean, an here's the telling part of the lack of reason in your rebuttal;
NONE OF THAT 90 PERCENT WAS LIES OR MADE UP! And even if you start at best you'll find about 5 stories that got retractions.

It's like getting angry at a teacher for not passing you on a test when all your answers are wrong.

They can only read through 25 per episode. Here is the first section of them. And this won't even be all of them;. Just the Top 100.

Freakin....100!!!!!

And I guarantee his supporters will remember about 5 of these and couldn't bear to sit through all 100 as the cognitive dissonance would shake their core.

 

[Bobber]

What if all the allegations against Joe Biden are true?

You do know to have them believe that would be the equivalent to have them depart from believing in a geocentric model of the universe that the Sun revolves around the Earth. Doubting that just can't be, just can't be, because it can't! After all CNN factor checkers have confirmed the Earth is at the centre and any thought to the contrary has been thoroughly debunked.

 

[Ana the Ist]

And I guarantee his supporters will remember about 5 of these and couldn't bear to sit through all 100 as the cognitive dissonance would shake their core.

If liberals based their beliefs on facts, their concerns about the truthiness of Trump would be concerning.

However, they've openly abandoned any intellectual integrity they used to have. They've admitted they no longer want to engage in honest discussion with people who believe differently....and it's pretty obvious from the way the attack and shame liberals who might be described as moderate or hold a different view....it's pretty obvious they aren't interested in honest discussion amongst themselves.

That makes it entirely possible that the predominant liberal narrative is entirely dogmatic, paper thin, and falls apart under any real scrutiny.

What if everything you believe is mostly assumption with no real basis in fact apart from perhaps some personal anecdotes?

Has your party told you to shut up and just believe a group of people or acknowledge/accept concepts uncritically in the past 4 years?

Of course they have....

 

[timothyu]

Which party is nationalistic and which has a global agenda which follows unelected but rich and powerful leaders? That might be a clue in maintaining stability and avoiding the great reset..

 

[disciple Clint]

Yeah, I'm disappointed they sugar coated the reality of his administration.

We had the right to expect the MSM to tell the truth and they have failed over and over.

 

[disciple Clint]

this actually proves my point from a different thread. Trump used crisis after crisis so he never had to deal with the crisis he just had. Msm are obliged to cover it because it's news.
They can't let sharpiegate get away; They can't just let him pervert John McCain's memory.
But if Trump has another crisis two days later boom; we can forget this one. Naomi Kleine wrote a whole Book on this strategy ("The Shock Doctrine", I think)

What if 90% of the time he was a crap president? I mean, an here's the telling part of the lack of reason in your rebuttal;
NONE OF THAT 90 PERCENT WAS LIES OR MADE UP! And even if you start at best you'll find about 5 stories that got retractions.

It's like getting angry at a teacher for not passing you on a test when all your answers are wrong.

They can only read through 25 per episode. Here is the first section of them. And this won't even be all of them;. Just the Top 100.

Freakin....100!!!!!

And I guarantee his supporters will remember about 5 of these and couldn't bear to sit through all 100 as the cognitive dissonance would shake their core.

I have no idea where you have been getting your news but for the last 3 years the MSM has told one lie after another after another. Where is the Russian Collusion? What laws has Trump or his family been convicted of breaking? Time after time MSM stories based on nothing but anonymous sources have proven to be false.

 

[KCfromNC]

We had the right to expect the MSM to tell the truth and they have failed over and over.

I'm not a big fan of Fox News either, but no one is forcing you to stick with them.

 

[Kentonio]

You do know to have them believe that would be the equivalent to have them depart from believing in a geocentric model of the universe that the Sun revolves around the Earth. Doubting that just can't be, just can't be, because it can't! After all CNN factor checkers have confirmed the Earth is at the centre and any thought to the contrary has been thoroughly debunked.

No, it’s you guys who have decided the sun revolves around the earth. You've decided that ALL the previously legitimate sources of information are all now wrong and twisted and that only this one man is telling you the truth. Which is why when you’re given a hundred scandals you can’t actually disprove any of them, you just bundle them together as some big conspiracy, because it’s easier to ignore that way.

 

[Danthemailman]

Which party is nationalistic and which has a global agenda which follows unelected but rich and powerful leaders? That might be a clue in maintaining stability and avoiding the great reset..

It's obvious which party has a global agenda and is ready to sell out America, which is why I'm not voting for that radical party!

 

[rambot]

I have no idea where you have been getting your news but for the last 3 years the MSM has told one lie after another after another.

No, they haven't. Tell me which of those first 25 were lies? I'm SUPER curious; especially about the proof you have to show that they are all lies.

Where is the Russian Collusion? What laws has Trump or his family been convicted of breaking? Time after time MSM stories based on nothing but anonymous sources have proven to be false.

1) All over the place. If there was NO innappropriate behaviour with the russians they would even have grounds for indictments. How many of those charges have been dropped?
2)HATCH Act, Immoluments Clause. Trump often spoke about flaunting or breaking laws; withholding evidence/materials during the impeachment trial and limiting testimony (not legal; but not trustworthy).

I have watched the news and not bought Trump's lines.

 

[KCfromNC]

It's obvious which party has a global agenda and is ready to sell out America

The one whose leader publicly sided with a dictator against out own intelligence services? Yeah, I remember Donald doing that. Good times, good times.

 

[rambot]

The one whose leader publicly sided with a dictator against out own intelligence services? Yeah, I remember Donald doing that. Good times, good times.

See...there's just SO many scandals they can't respond to them all other than just to say they are always lieing. Even when it's talking about words trump said. Somehow they still lie.

 

[disciple Clint]

I'm not a big fan of Fox News either, but no one is forcing you to stick with them.

Happy to see that you watch a real news network that is not an agent of the left, keep watching fox.

 

[timothyu]

When did news become a team sport where fans chose sides? Has everything been dumbed down to the jock mentality? No wonder a nation is divided. Do you have tailgate parties before the evening news?