IS The CHURCH The FULFILLMENT of ISRAEL? Replacement Theology

[Choose Wisely]

Hi I love your post but cant get behind the purple bold text. Your post would have equal merit in normal text.

Lol. Years ago there was no way to keep up with your post. There was not alerts and such. To find your post you had to scan through all the posts. Best way to find them was to use a special color or font. I just never changed when things improved.

 

[Pedra]

Unless you have a video you insist people watch... then you wish people would put down their bibles and watch youtube...

This thread is based upon the Video in the OP.
You've been requested many times politely, to please watch the video by Pastor Jack Hibbs & Dr. David Wilkinson and comment based upon the video discussion-- but you continue to refuse.

 

[Pedra]

Lol. Years ago there was no way to keep up with your post. There was not alerts and such. To find your post you had to scan through all the posts. Best way to find them was to use a special color or font. I just never changed when things improved.

Hey Lol! don't change it, I appreciated your posts sticking out above the ones that want to write reams & reams of false teachings.

 

[Pedra]

What is replacement theology / supersessionism?

Question: "What is replacement theology / supersessionism?"

Answer: Replacement theology (also known as supersessionism) essentially teaches that the church has replaced Israel in God’s plan. Adherents of replacement theology believe the Jews are no longer God’s chosen people, and God does not have specific future plans for the nation of Israel. Among the different views of the relationship between the church and Israel are the church has replaced Israel (replacement theology), the church is an expansion of Israel (covenant theology), or the church is completely different and distinct from Israel (dispensationalism/premillennialism).

Replacement theology teaches that the church is the replacement for Israel and that the many promises made to Israel in the Bible are fulfilled in the Christian church, not in Israel. The prophecies in Scripture concerning the blessing and restoration of Israel to the Promised Land are spiritualized or allegorized into promises of God’s blessing for the church. Major problems exist with this view, such as the continuing existence of the Jewish people throughout the centuries and especially with the revival of the modern state of Israel. If Israel has been condemned by God and there is no future for the Jewish nation, how do we explain the supernatural survival of the Jewish people over the past 2,000 years despite the many attempts to destroy them? How do we explain why and how Israel reappeared as a nation in the 20th century after not existing for 1,900 years?

The view that Israel and the church are different is clearly taught in the New Testament. Biblically speaking, the church is distinct from Israel, and the terms church and Israel are never to be confused or used interchangeably. We are taught from Scripture that the church is an entirely new creation that came into being on the day of Pentecost and will continue until it is taken to heaven at the rapture (Ephesians 1:9–11; 1 Thessalonians 4:13–17). The church has no relationship to the curses and blessings for Israel. The covenants, promises, and warnings of the Mosaic Covenant were valid only for Israel. Israel has been temporarily set aside in God’s program during these past 2,000 years of dispersion (see Romans 11).

Contrary to replacement theology, dispensationalism teaches that, after the rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:13–18), God will restore Israel as the primary focus of His plan. The first event at this time is the tribulation (Revelation chapters 6–19). The world will be judged for rejecting Christ, while Israel is prepared through the trials of the great tribulation for the second coming of the Messiah. Then, when Christ does return to the earth at the end of the tribulation, Israel will be ready to receive Him. The remnant of Israel who survive the tribulation will be saved, and the Lord will establish His kingdom on this earth with Jerusalem as its capital. With Christ reigning as King, Israel will be the leading nation, and representatives from all nations will come to Jerusalem to honor and worship the King—Jesus Christ. The church will return with Christ and will reign with Him for a literal thousand years (Revelation 20:1–5).

Both the Old Testament and the New Testament support a premillennial/dispensational understanding of God’s plan for Israel. The strongest support for premillennialism is found in the clear teaching of Revelation 20:1–7, where it says six times that Christ’s kingdom will last 1,000 years. After the tribulation the Lord will return and establish His kingdom with the nation of Israel, Christ will reign over the whole earth, and Israel will be the leader of the nations. The church will reign with Him for a literal thousand years. The church has not replaced Israel in God's plan. While God may be focusing His attention primarily on the church in this dispensation of grace, God has not forgotten Israel and will one day restore Israel to His intended role as the nation He has chosen (Romans 11).

Recommended Resource: Bible Answers for Almost all Your Questions by Elmer Towns

 

[parousia70]

What is replacement theology / supersessionism?

Question: "What is replacement theology / supersessionism?"

Answer: Replacement theology (also known as supersessionism) essentially teaches that the church has replaced Israel in God’s plan. Adherents of replacement theology believe the Jews are no longer God’s chosen people, and God does not have specific future plans for the nation of Israel. Among the different views of the relationship between the church and Israel are the church has replaced Israel (replacement theology), the church is an expansion of Israel (covenant theology), or the church is completely different and distinct from Israel (dispensationalism/premillennialism).

Replacement theology teaches that the church is the replacement for Israel and that the many promises made to Israel in the Bible are fulfilled in the Christian church, not in Israel.

Again, who are these 3000 people?
Are they The Church?
Are they Israel?
Are they Both?
Are they Neither?

Acts 2:41
So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.

You could clear a lot of this up by answering this one simple question.

Can you?

The Video NEVER addresses them.

You apparently Hold some sort of "separation theology" that claims once these 3000 people were Baptised and added to the "Church" they somehow, at that moment, STOPPED being Israelites and Heirs to the Covenant promises to National Israel, but this is nowhere taught in scripture! Indeed the Opposite is taught... Paul, after His conversion into the Church, still identifies himself as an Israelite.

You separation theologians claim Paul was Wrong to make such a claim... that instead of remaining an Israelite as Paul claimed, Paul rather CEASED being an Israelite upon his conversion to Christianity.

Such a belief would be unrecognizable to the Apostles and therefore must be rejected by the Honest Bible expositor.

 

[parousia70]

You've been requested many times politely, to please watch the video .. but you continue to refuse.

I watched it in it's entirety, and I have soundly refuted the claims made therein.

That you dislike my refutation does not = me not watching the video.

 

[parousia70]

The remnant of Israel who survive the tribulation will be saved, and the Lord will establish His kingdom on this earth with Jerusalem as its capital.

This, ladies and gentlemen, is Anti-Semitism at it's ugly core.

Calling for the wholsale slaughter of MOST of Israel's citizens in our future is sick, twisted and morally reprehensible.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

What is replacement theology / supersessionism?

Contrary to replacement theology, dispensationalism teaches that, after the rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:13–18),

Both the Old Testament and the New Testament support a premillennial/dispensational understanding of God’s plan for Israel. The strongest support for premillennialism is found in the clear teaching of Revelation 20:1–7, where it says six times that Christ’s kingdom will last 1,000 years.

Recommended Resource: Bible Answers for Almost all Your Questions by Elmer Towns

Everything one wants to know about Dispensationalism but was afraid to ask.....and for good reason!
I call it the "spider web" doctrine.........

Dispensationalism – Grace Online Library

.........Dispensationalism has a pervasive influence not only extensively, but also intensively. It is usually the case that those who embrace its teachings as a system are affected in almost every area of their theological thinking.
So pervasive is its effect on those who have become its pupils, that even those who have come to see the error of its basic presuppositions testify that dispensational cobwebs have remained in their thinking for a long time after the initial sweeping took place.

No evaluation of Dispensational Premillennialism may ignore its teaching of a two-phased return of Christ, the first phase of which is commonly known as the rapture. This feature is its…

So, What Do You Believe About Revelation 20?
By GOL | Amillennialsm, Blog, Dispensationalism, Eschatology, Revelation 20
As an Amillennialist it never fails – any time I have a conversation with a Dispensationalist within the first 3 minutes I get the same question, “So, what do you…

Dispensationalism: A Return to Biblical Theology or Pseudo Christian Cult – Part I by Gospel Plow
By GOL | Dispensationalism
1. Why Argue about Doctrine? Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they…

Dispensationalism: Part I – Millennial Views Prior to the Rise of Dispensationalism by Mark Sarver
By GOL | Dispensationalism
Introduction It is scarcely possible that those who labor in the gospel will be able to escape the necessity of ministering to those who have been influenced by modern dispensationalism….

 

[BABerean2]

How do we explain why and how Israel reappeared as a nation in the 20th century after not existing for 1,900 years?

The answer to your question is found below.

How many times does the man in this video give the credit to God?

.

 

[NeedyFollower]

What is replacement theology / supersessionism?

Question: "What is replacement theology / supersessionism?"

Answer: Replacement theology (also known as supersessionism) essentially teaches that the church has replaced Israel in God’s plan. Adherents of replacement theology believe the Jews are no longer God’s chosen people, and God does not have specific future plans for the nation of Israel. Among the different views of the relationship between the church and Israel are the church has replaced Israel (replacement theology), the church is an expansion of Israel (covenant theology), or the church is completely different and distinct from Israel (dispensationalism/premillennialism).

Replacement theology teaches that the church is the replacement for Israel and that the many promises made to Israel in the Bible are fulfilled in the Christian church, not in Israel. The prophecies in Scripture concerning the blessing and restoration of Israel to the Promised Land are spiritualized or allegorized into promises of God’s blessing for the church. Major problems exist with this view, such as the continuing existence of the Jewish people throughout the centuries and especially with the revival of the modern state of Israel. If Israel has been condemned by God and there is no future for the Jewish nation, how do we explain the supernatural survival of the Jewish people over the past 2,000 years despite the many attempts to destroy them? How do we explain why and how Israel reappeared as a nation in the 20th century after not existing for 1,900 years?

The view that Israel and the church are different is clearly taught in the New Testament. Biblically speaking, the church is distinct from Israel, and the terms church and Israel are never to be confused or used interchangeably. We are taught from Scripture that the church is an entirely new creation that came into being on the day of Pentecost and will continue until it is taken to heaven at the rapture (Ephesians 1:9–11; 1 Thessalonians 4:13–17). The church has no relationship to the curses and blessings for Israel. The covenants, promises, and warnings of the Mosaic Covenant were valid only for Israel. Israel has been temporarily set aside in God’s program during these past 2,000 years of dispersion (see Romans 11).

Contrary to replacement theology, dispensationalism teaches that, after the rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:13–18), God will restore Israel as the primary focus of His plan. The first event at this time is the tribulation (Revelation chapters 6–19). The world will be judged for rejecting Christ, while Israel is prepared through the trials of the great tribulation for the second coming of the Messiah. Then, when Christ does return to the earth at the end of the tribulation, Israel will be ready to receive Him. The remnant of Israel who survive the tribulation will be saved, and the Lord will establish His kingdom on this earth with Jerusalem as its capital. With Christ reigning as King, Israel will be the leading nation, and representatives from all nations will come to Jerusalem to honor and worship the King—Jesus Christ. The church will return with Christ and will reign with Him for a literal thousand years (Revelation 20:1–5).

Both the Old Testament and the New Testament support a premillennial/dispensational understanding of God’s plan for Israel. The strongest support for premillennialism is found in the clear teaching of Revelation 20:1–7, where it says six times that Christ’s kingdom will last 1,000 years. After the tribulation the Lord will return and establish His kingdom with the nation of Israel, Christ will reign over the whole earth, and Israel will be the leader of the nations. The church will reign with Him for a literal thousand years. The church has not replaced Israel in God's plan. While God may be focusing His attention primarily on the church in this dispensation of grace, God has not forgotten Israel and will one day restore Israel to His intended role as the nation He has chosen (Romans 11).

Recommended Resource: Bible Answers for Almost all Your Questions by Elmer Towns

Well I am not big on videos ...exciting and dramatic music , etc. though I did watch some of this . I try to do truth brother as Jesus says I am the way the life and the Truth . Prior to being found by the Messiah of the whole world , Jesus Christ , I made my living in advertising ...in speaking truth in lies . I am very sensitive to spin . I am, by God's grace also a student of history . My hope , just like anyone with a living hope , is Jesus Christ . I am well aware of antisemitism throughout the history of the church. I am also well aware that many of the founders of secular Israel and the zionist movement were atheist. This is a historical fact. Satan would have us shed blood for an old covenant which gives Israel a piece of dirt instead of eternity . The US-Israel coalition and the idea that the old covenant ( which Israel broke so that in God's wisdom , He could give them MORE ) still stands , I believe is born of pride and denies the very teaching of our saviour to love our enemies . This is what we who have received grace were supposed to teach the Jews according to the words of Jesus ..Go make disciples of me , teaching them to observe all that I commanded you . Man is wicked ...man needs a saviour . Do you remember the story of the prodigal son ? What did the Father say to the angry son who stayed home ? " Son ALL that I have has ever been yours . " ALL ..everything ...the universe ...The Jewish nation has been cheated by well meaning but deceived Christians who understand war , patriotism ,honor and glory but nothing of grace . I am saddened that many in the world think we in the USA represent Jesus . We do not . By our actions we deny Him . Whosoever is ashamed of me AND MY WORDS , him will I deny on that day . Brother ..I believe you are being sold a basket of rotten figs .

 

[Pedra]

The Bible settles it. Replacement theology is a heresy, it is blatantly obviously when a person reads & study the Bible as it is given to us. It is simple, the Bible scripture read without adding to it , or misrepresenting texts refutes Supersessionism. Israel will exist as a nation until the sun and moon cease to exist. The people who follow the heresy are missing a lot of amazing signs of God which have been awesome in recent times since 1948 when Israel was declared a Nation. So obvious GOD is watching over His people.
God did not reject His people whom HE Fore knew. Everlasting means everlasting.

 

[Pedra]

Dr. David Hocking refutes the Heresy of Replacement Theology.

 

[parousia70]

Israel will exist as a nation until the sun and moon cease to exist.

Nevermind the 1900 years it didn't exist as a nation, even though both the Sun and Moon existed for the whole time..... pay no attention to that.

The Scriptures are indeed quite clear.
Israel survived *exclusively* in the sect of the Nazarenes. They received with joy their promised New Covenant and obediently rejected all former biases against the non-Abrahamic families of earth so that Genesis 12:3 might finally be attained (Gal 3:7-9/Rom 4:13-18)---via the work of the Jewish Messiah. This sole surviving form of covenant Judaism is known worldwide as Christianity, the Jewish church gone global. The church always was the covenanted Israel, the church continues to be the covenanted Israel.

Modern Israel is a Secular, Multi-Ethnic, Democratic Nation-state and has ZERO verifiable relationship to the pre desolation Hebrew Theocracy.
Not Genetically, Not religiously and not politically.

Stick to Scripture friend.
As another poster said, you've been sold a bowl of rotten figs.

Time to throw it out with the trash that is antisemitic dispenSENsationalism.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

P

edra said: ↑
The remnant of Israel who survive the tribulation will be saved, and the Lord will establish His kingdom on this earth with Jerusalem as its capital.

This, ladies and gentlemen, is Anti-Semitism at it's ugly core.
Calling for the wholsale slaughter of MOST of Israel's citizens in our future is sick, twisted and morally reprehensible.

Did you and/or others read this announcement by the P M of Israel concerning the holocaust?

NTEB: God's Prophetical Promise To Return The Jews To Israel

In a stunning and remarkable moment, Netanyahu also declared to the people of Europe and the world that the prophecies of Ezekiel 37 have been fulfilled.

The Holocaust, he said, represented the "dry bones" and "graves" of the Jewish people, and out of that horror the State of Israel was resurrected, just as the Lord said would happen through the Hebrew Prophet Ezekiel.
Rarely has any world leader given a major address on an international stage declaring End Times prophecies from the Bible have come true.
But that is exactly what Netanyahu did. - Joel Rosenberg

He brings up 70ad:

Roman legions surrounded the city, set it on fire, and destroyed the holy Temple which was the center of Jewish life in Israel. Thousands of Jews were killed, and then thousands more taken into Roman slave and work camps. Roman historian Josephus
Sporadic fighting continued for a few more years, and then it was all over, Israel lay beseiged and beaten to a pulp. Years went by, then decades which gave way to centuries. Nearly two Millenia passed by. During that period various groups moved in and out, but the city lay barren and quite fruitless. It looked like God's Promise to return the Jews to Israel would be impossible to come true.
Yet, when you read Scrupture, God's Promise is sure and confident:
=========

I felt Ezekiel 22 was fulfilled in THE HOLOCAUST of 70ad

EZEKIEL 22 "GATHER HOUSE OF ISRAEL INTO JERUSALEM TO MELT IN FURNACE/GEHENNA"

Ezekiel 22:
17 word of Yahweh unto me, saying, ‘Son of adam!
18 The House of Israel hath been to Me for dross, All of them [are] brass, and tin, and iron, and lead, In the midst of a furnace — dross hath silver been,
19 Therefore, thus said Adonay Yahweh: Because of your all becoming dross, Therefore, behold!
I am gathering you unto the midst of Jerusalem,
20 A gathering of silver, and brass, and iron, and lead, and tin, Unto the midst of a furnace — to blow on it fire, to melt it,
So do I gather in Mine anger and in My fury, And I have let rest, and have melted you.
21 And I have heaped you up, And blown on you in the fire of My wrath<5678>, And ye have been melted<5413> in its midst.
22 As the melting of silver in the midst of a furnace, So are ye melted in its midst, And ye have known that I, Yahweh, I have poured out My fury<2534> upon you.’
=========================

The only event I can think of that was fulfilled in that passage was 70ad.
How did Yahweh gather the Jews into Jerusalem?
The feast of the Passover!
=====================
The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

History records few events more generally interesting than the destruction of Jerusalem, and the subversion of the Jewish state, by the arms of the Romans. -- Their intimate connexion with the dissolution of the Levitical economy, and the establishment of Christianity in the world ; the striking verification which they afford of so many of the prophecies, both of the Old and New Testament, and the powerful arguments of the divine authority of the Scriptures which are thence derived..........

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover ; and it is deserving of the very particular attention of the reader, that this was the anniversary of that memorable period in which the Jews crucified their Messiah !
At this season multitudes came up from all the surrounding country, and from distant parts, to keep the festival. How suitable and how kind, then, was the prophetic admonition of our LORD, and how clearly he into futurity when he said "Let not them that are in the countries enter into Jerusalem." Luke xxi. 21.

Nevertheless, the city was at this time crowded with Jewish strangers, and foreigners from all parts, so that the whole nation may be considered as having been shut up in one prison, preparatory to the execution of the Divine vengeance...........................

. This memorable siege terminated on the eighth day of the ninth month, A. D. 70 : its duration was nearly five months, the Romans having invested the city on the fourteenth day of the fourth month, preceeding.
==========================================
Exo 12:
11 'And thus ye do eat it: your loins girded, your sandals on your feet, and your staff in your hand, and ye have eaten it in haste; it is Jehovah's passover,

23 “For the LORD will pass through to strike the Egyptians; and when He sees the blood on the lintel and on the two doorposts, the LORD will pass over the door and not allow the destroyer to come into your houses to strike you.
[Equivalent to the Christian Jews escaping to Pella during the Jewish wars in the 1st century]


.

 

[Pedra]

Heresy of Replacement theology attacks the Word of God, God's people and God's Character & the Truth.

 

[jgr]

Any Sunday School kindergartner could answer the question below correctly.

Every dispensationalist pleads the 5th.

How does God identify His Chosen People?

1. By their DNA
2. By their religion
3. By their culture
4. By their faith in, and obedience to, His Son

?

 

[TribulationSigns]

The Bible settles it. Replacement theology is a heresy,

Agreed!

the Bible scripture read without adding to it , or misrepresenting texts refutes Supersessionism.

I don't like such labels, but honestly, "What's in a name? That which we call a rose by any other name would smell as sweet." I think so. You can call it whatever you like, but the message that God's Word puts forth will still shine through to any objective reader like you:

Mrk 11:13-14

• "And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet.
• And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever. And his disciples heard it."

Mark 11:20-21

• "And in the morning, as they passed by, they saw the fig tree dried up from the roots.
• And Peter calling to remembrance saith unto him, Master, behold, the fig tree which thou cursedst is withered away."

And didn't you also read the Scripture as Christ said:

Matthew 21:42-44

• "Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
• Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
• And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder."

The builders were the Jews, the people of the old testament congregation. God has removed the kingdom representative from old testament congregation (Israel) and gave it to the New Testament Congregation (Israel) that brings forth fruits! Selah!

But you do not like it, yet you are all over us calling us with labels. You can call it whatever you want, but the message God gives is clear. God's visible Kingdom or congregation upon earth up to this time was represented by the nation of Israel. But after the Cross, Christ is now making it clear that that kingdom of God representation shall be taken from the Nation of Israel and given to a nation that will bring forth the fruits thereof. Namely, the congregation that is the church would now hold that distinction. And let's be clear, these words are neither polysemous, subtle, abstruse or difficult. They're not subject to your or your favorite teachers' interpretations or out of context revisions. The Messiah and Kingdom of Israel that prophesy foretold was rejected by them, and therefore they were cursed with blindness (in part) to never bear fruit as a nation again, as they would no longer be the representatives of God's Kingdom on earth. Christ clearly taught that the Kingdom has been taken from them, and given to the church, who will bring forth the fruit of the Spirit, rather than the flesh. He of course context reveals as the foundation stone of this restoration of the Kingdom of Christ. Again, use whatever word you choose, call it whatever you want, the Biblical facts of Scripture are without ambiguity concerning their judgment, what that concerned, and who are the children of God and who are not. For example, anyone who rejects Christ, by definition cannot be the children of the Kingdom.

Acts 4:10-12

• "Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
• This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
• Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."

Israel cannot be saved as a nation by still rejecting Christ, cannot be the kingdom, cannot be the children of God or the election. Not every again! Neither is there salvation in any other person, place or thing. There is none other names under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved. So while you talk about a miracle of the birth of a nation of 1949 that you also say could never have been un-birthed or not a nation in the first place, the Bible says differently! Period! Biblical facts, versus visions and delusions of grandeur. You can call it "Supersessionism", You can call it "Restoration Theology", you can call it "Replacement Theology", you can call it "Antisemitism", but God calls it biblical fact. And that is a biblical fact that refutes your video!

Israel will exist as a nation until the sun and moon cease to exist.

The question is. Which Israel? National Israel in the Middle East or the Covenant Israel making up of all people from old and new testament in Christ. You tell me!

Everlasting means everlasting.

If it is with Covenant Israel, then yes. But not national Israel in the Middle East.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Any Sunday School kindergartner could answer the question below correctly.

Every dispensationalist pleads the 5th.

How does God identify His Chosen People?

1. By their DNA
2. By their religion
3. By their culture
4. By their faith in, and obedience to, His Son

?

I think he is too indoctrinated into the doctrine of Dispensatinalism to understand that......

 

[TribulationSigns]

Heresy of Replacement theology attacks the Word of God, God's people and God's Character & the Truth.

Red Herring Alert! ​

 

[Pedra]

This, ladies and gentlemen, is Anti-Semitism at it's ugly core.

Calling for the wholsale slaughter of MOST of Israel's citizens in our future is sick, twisted and morally reprehensible.

That was bogus attempt at a false accusation. My post was referring to during the time of the Tribulation.

Matt 24:21,22 "
21 For then there will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now, no, nor will occur again. 22 In fact, unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved; but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short"