IS The CHURCH The FULFILLMENT of ISRAEL? Replacement Theology

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Choose Wisely

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Thank You!! Your post is the truth and it is a refreshing a word of encouragement. This forum is depressing and shows that the majority here are under false teachings rather then following the literal TRUTH of the Scriptures. Thank You Bro for posting! God Bless You!
You are correct. It's all about their theology and not about the truth. They pump out the same old tired falsehood.......The pretribulation rapture started in the 1800's....blah, blah, blah........John Nelson Darby ...blah, blah, blah. Since this has been proven incorrect by historical documents, it's hard to comprehend why they keep spouting this nonsense. Is there no desire for truth?
Then they like to list a bunch of scriptures about the new covenant....like that proves their point. We all understand there is a new covenant and there will come a day....soon......that God will deal with the 12 tribes and the scales will fall from their eyes.

Rom 11
10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

God tells us what he is going to do. And He will do it.

Rom 11
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.


Their method is to twist scripture to hide the truth. For instance they ignore the truth about the blindness of Israel continues until the fulness of the Gentiles comes in. They will twist in the scripture about the times of the Gentiles to try to confuse the truth about what God has promised to do.

Bottom line is, it's just another attack on God's people, God's word, and the truth.
 
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Pedra

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I listened to the dialogue intently, waiting to hear two words.
Faith and obedience.
I never heard them.
There was no reference to the two indispensable criteria that God applies to identify His Chosen People.
I waited to hear at least some acknowledgment that God's covenants have nothing to do with DNA or genetics, but are entirely dependent on the foregoing criteria. (Acts 10:34,35)
I heard the opposite instead -- a racialized Scripture and an apartheid God.
But God's seminal covenant command at the beginning of covenant history reveals otherwise:
Genesis 17:12
And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.
God's nonethnic nonracial covenant applied equally to those who were of Abraham's seed, and to those who were not of his seed.
God's covenant conditions from the beginning have been faith and obedience exclusively.
He has never changed His mind.

I hear Anti-Semitism under your words, & apartheid claims is a satanic inspired accusation. Even cloaked Anti-Semitism is from Satan.

"Our Faith and Obedience is to be to God's Word which is clear as The Word of God declares that the LORD GOD of Israel never changes, never goes back upon His word. The LORD GOD Has declared in His Word that the Jews & nation of Israel are set apart for Himself , for the fulfillment of His Word, & through His Son Christ Jesus , the LORD shall save a remnant for Himself & Lord Yeshua Christ's Throne shall be in JERUSALEM during His Millenial reign & He shall rule with a rod of iron.

"Replacement Theology" i.e "New covenant theology" that subtracts Israel from God's Promises , is purely a demonic teaching as Dr. Wilkinson & Pastor Jack Hibbs state. That false doctrine that casts off Israel & the Jewish people is Satanic and it has corrupted churches & believers who follow it. You cannot steal God's Provisions declared for Israel & please the GOD who chose them.


Do not follow that demonic doctrine of Replacement Theology/new covenant theology that cherry-picks scriptures , spiritualizes the term "Israel" instead of submitting to the literal contextual , instructional Word of God which states clearly God's plan for he state of Israel& the Jewish people.
Man cannot oppose GOD's Plan , Promises & Purposes for the Jewish people & Israel and think they will please the the GOD who calls Himself the GOD of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob , who scripture states He chose the Jewish people to be HIS people & formed the Nation of Israel & declared for them their land.

IT is the LORD GOD Almighty the BIBLE declares whose Eye is upon ISRAEL constantly, Psalm 121: He Who Watches Israel Never Slumbers or Sleeps, The LORD GOD Who declared this people be set apart & this nation, that Israel IS forever the Apple of His eye, and they belong to the LORD and it SHALL BE as Long as the Sun & the moon exist and the Lord Jesus Christ is their SAVIOR.
God will Save HIS Remnant out of Israel For Himself as His Word states. Hallelujah! Glory & Praise to the LORD God,Yeshua & the Holy Spirit for evermore! & may HE allow the scales to drop from your eyes to see His wonderful grace filled plan at work in these end times.



 
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LittleLambofJesus

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jgr said:
I listened to the dialogue intently, waiting to hear two words.
Faith and obedience.
I never heard them.
I hear Anti-Semitism under your words, & apartheid claims is a satanic inspired accusation.
Even cloaked Anti-Semitism is from Satan.
You are correct. It's all about their theology and not about the truth. They pump out the same old tired falsehood......

Bottom line is, it's just another attack on God's people, God's word, and the truth.
The last time someone accused members of antisemitism, a whole thread got shut down.
[This thread shouldn't even be on the Eschatology board in the first place]
A Challenge to Christian Zionists

Pedra said:
ISRAEL & the Jews & the Nation of Israel is GOD's business Not yours, He WILL fulfill the plan He has for them.
Seems you have been listening to Jew- hating teachers & are being anti-Semitic and trying to blame the Bible to justify that anti-Semitic attitude is like what the KKK or any cult does misusing scripture.


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Brian Mcnamee

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You are correct. It's all about their theology and not about the truth. They pump out the same old tired falsehood.......The pretribulation rapture started in the 1800's....blah, blah, blah........John Nelson Darby ...blah, blah, blah. Since this has been proven incorrect by historical documents, it's hard to comprehend why they keep spouting this nonsense. Is there no desire for truth?
Then they like to list a bunch of scriptures about the new covenant....like that proves their point. We all understand there is a new covenant and there will come a day....soon......that God will deal with the 12 tribes and the scales will fall from their eyes.

Rom 11
10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

God tells us what he is going to do. And He will do it.
Rom 11

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Their method is to twist scripture to hide the truth. For instance they ignore the truth about the blindness of Israel continues until the fulness of the Gentiles comes in. They will twist in the scripture about the times of the Gentiles to try to confuse the truth about what God has promised to do.


Bottom line is, it's just another attack on God's people, God's word, and the truth.
Hi I love your post but cant get behind the purple bold text. Your post would have equal merit in normal text.
 
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jgr

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Bottom line is, it's just another attack on God's people, God's word, and the truth.

How does God identify His People?

1. By their DNA
2. By their religion
3. By their culture
4. By their faith in, and obedience to, His Son

?
 
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RACarvalho

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These two men are promoting the Two Peoples of God doctrine that John Nelson Darby brought to America about the time of the Civil War.
Darby and later Scofield where two of the more instrumental men in making the counter reformation successful in America.
Not even the Jesuits of the 17th and 18th centuries and their wars were able to accomplish what Darby and Scofield did, making the protestant church believe in Futurism, hiding the antichrist in plain sight and killing the Protestant opposition ...
 
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LastSeven

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Thank You!! Your post is the truth and it is a refreshing a word of encouragement. This forum is depressing and shows that the majority here are under false teachings rather then following the literal TRUTH of the Scriptures. Thank You Bro for posting! God Bless You!
:) Because he agrees with you, his post is the truth?
 
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LastSeven

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I wish people would read their bibles and stick to the Word of God instead of following the "replacement theology false teachings of men, aw....but that's how many people are lead astray.
I would say the exact same thing about you. How do you know you're not missing something?
 
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I hear Anti-Semitism under your words, & apartheid claims is a satanic inspired accusation. Even cloaked Anti-Semitism is from Satan.
Seriously? You're throwing out the anti-Semitism card? So lame.
 
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LastSeven

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Replacement /New Covenant Theology which they call a Satanic doctrine that is not taught by scripture but is a man-made teaching that is not biblically inspired, since it opposes the Truth written for us in scriptures.

Alright, let's get into the heart of the matter.

Is it Satanic doctrine to say that the promises were made to one seed, which is Christ? Is it Satanic doctrine to say that not all who are descended from Israel are Israel? Is it Satanic doctrine to say that we who were once far away are now members of the body with Christ and citizens in Israel? Is it Satanic doctrine to say that those who have faith are children of Abraham?

If you answered no to all of those questions, then what are you arguing against?
 
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parousia70

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If the Church and Israel are Separate, When did these 3000 people STOP being Israel?:
Acts 2:41
So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.
 
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parousia70

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In the Old Testament era, Israel was that nation of men that descended from Abraham through his sons, Isaac and Jacob (Gen 17:19; 21:9-12). Jacob was renamed "Israel" (Gen 32:28), and from Jacob came twelve sons who became patriarchs of twelve tribes, or families, of Abraham's descendants. These families famously became known as the Twelve Tribes of Israel.

Though the most visible component of Israel's identity was familial and marked in the flesh with the mark of circumcision (Gen 17:10-11), from the earliest times certain foreigners sojourned among the Hebrew tribes and began following the Hebrew religion and way of life. These gentile migrants lacked the ancestral link to Abraham that the natural-born descendants possssed, but they nevertheless were permitted to be circumcised (Gen 17:11-13) and assimilated fully into the native-born people of God by way of conversion:

"If a man from another country is living with you, and has a desire to keep the Passover to the Lord, let all the males of his family undergo circumcision, and then let him come near and keep it; for he will then be as one of your people; but no one without circumcision may keep it. The law is the same for him who is an Israelite by birth and for the man from a strange country who is living with you." (Ex 12:48-49)

Gentiles who converted to the Hebrew religion in this way and sojourned among the tribes of Israel were grafted into the people of God and given full status as true Israelites. Many such naturalized citizens existed among the members of Israel, though the natural-born sons of Abraham always comprised a majority of the citizenry.

While racial descent from Abraham (through Isaac and Jacob, "Israel") was central to identifying the members of Israel in Old Testament times, God made it clear that all Israelites who disobeyed His covenant would be "cut off" from among the true people of God:
"He who is born in your house...must be circumcised. My covenant will be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. The uncircumcised male who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin, that soul shall be cut off from his people. He has broken my covenant." (Gen 17:13-14)

Soon it became clear that other violations of the covenant also served to "cut off" individuals from among the people of God (Lev 18:29; Num 15:30-31; Ex 12:15,19; Ex 31:14; Lev 7:20-27; Lev 23:28-30). Such a person was at that point considered a heathen and not a child of Abraham. This practice of exclusion from the covenant society continued down to Ezra's time (Ezra 10:8) and even to Christ's day (Jn 9:22; Jn 12:42; Mt. 18:15-17; 1 Cor 5:1-2,5,11-13).

In reality, conformity to God's covenantal commands, above all else, determined one's status as a member of Israel. Put another way, a person's identity with Israel was derived from and maintained by obedience----for the natural-born citizen's privilege as Israel could be nullified through disobedience, and the foreigner's status as an alien of Israel could be removed through obedience.

At times the issue of obedience became paramount for the nation of Israel. Scripture records numerous apostasies by--and subsequent excommunications of--seditious sons of Abraham. Examples may be multipled: God struck down thousands of rebellious Israelites in the wilderness (Num 14:26-45; Num 21:5-9; Num 16:1-50), though the church was preserved and led to the Promised Land (Acts 7:38-45); In Isaiah's day, apostasy became so rampant that Israel continued to exist through a small but faithful remnant (Isa 10:22-23; Isa 1:7-9; Rom 9:27-29); In Elijah's era, the multitude of Israelites who worshiped the false god Baal was so great that faithful Israel narrowed to a mere seven thousand men (1 Kings 19:1-18; Rom 11:2-4). Lastly, at the close of the Old Testamental age, Israel was again reduced to a small remnant of faithful elect ones (Rom 11:5). The Jewish Pharisees and temple rulers grew wicked to the point of killing God's holy Messiah and apostles (1 Thess 2:14-16), and throngs wanted Caesar as king instead of Messiah, the son of David (Jn 19:15). Then as in times past, true Israel survived and continued on through the faithful sons, while the unfaithful apostates were "cut off" from among the people.

The severe sedition and schism that took place in Christ's generation between the faithful sons and the disobedient brothers was not without warning. As St. Peter testified to his contemporary Jewish brethren:
"For Moses said: A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me: him you shall hear according to all things whatsoever he shall speak to you. And it shall be, that every soul which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.And all the prophets, from Samuel and afterwards, who have spoken, have told of these days." (Acts 3:22-24)

THIS is exactly what happened in the first century.

As Moses and St. Peter had forewarned, the wicked sons of Israel of that generation were dramatically cut off at the destruction of Jerusalem, at AD 66-70. The disobedient sons received many dire warnings from Jesus the Messiah:
"Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites...you are the sons of them that killed the prophets. Fill up then the measure of your fathers. You serpents, generation of vipers, how will you flee from the judgment of hell? Therefore behold I send to you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them you will put to death and crucify, and some you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city: That upon you may come all the just blood that hath been shed upon the earth, from the blood of Abel the just, even unto the blood of Zacharias the son of Barachias, whom you killed between the temple and the altar. Amen I say to you, all these things shall come upon this generation. Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered together thy children, as the hen doth gather her chickens under her wings, and thou wouldest not? Behold, you house shall be left to you, desolate" (Matt 23:29,33-38)

Again the Messiah predicted the imminent destruction of the rebellious sons:
When He approached Jerusalem, He saw the city and wept over it, saying, "If you had known in this day, even you, the things which make for peace! But now they have been hidden from your eyes. For the days will come upon you when your enemies will throw up a barricade against you, and surround you and hem you in on every side, and they will level you to the ground and your children within you, and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not recognize the time of your visitation." (Luke 19:41-44)

As a testimony to God's providential care for his faithful remnant, the obedient sons of Abraham were miraculously spared and protected while the wicked sons were judged and destroyed from among the people. Addresing his beloved apostles and followers, Jesus said:
"When you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near. Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are in the midst of the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city; because these are days of vengeance, so that all things which are written will be fulfilled. Woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days; for there will be great distress upon the land and wrath to this people; and they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled under foot by the Gentiles" (Luke 21:20-22).

Once the faithful nation of God's elect were miraculously protected, the doom predicted for wicked brothers would commence. As Jesus forewarned:
"When therefore the Lord therefore of the vineyard comes, what will he do unto those vine-growers? They said unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will rent out his vineyard unto other vine-growers, who shall render him the fruits in their seasons. Jesus said unto them, Did you never read in the scriptures, 'The stone which the builders rejected, this became the chief corner stone: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?' Therefore say I unto you, the kingdom of God shall be taken away from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits of it. And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder. And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they understood that He was speaking about them." (Mt 21:40-45)

And so true Israel---the sons of Abraham who followed the Messiah, as manifested by Providence and by history---was again preserved during a time of national apostasy and tribulation. As was the case in former times with Moses, Elijah, and Isaiah, countless apostates were cut off from among the people. But God's elect Israel, the faithful remnant, triumphed and continued on, spreading the good news of the Kingdom of God to the entire world, in and through the Jewish Church.

Israel survived *exclusively* in the sect of the Nazarenes. They received with joy their promised New Covenant and obediently rejected all former biases against the non-Abrahamic families of earth so that Genesis 12:3 might finally be attained (Gal 3:7-9/Rom 4:13-18)---via the work of the Jewish Messiah. This sole surviving form of covenant Judaism is known worldwide as Christianity, the Jewish church gone global. The church always was the covenanted Israel, the church continues to be the covenanted Israel. The only difference is that the NEW covenant of Israel enabled Jewish fullness to be bestowed upon gentile people groups (Gen 12:3).
 
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Pedra

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Do you believe the bible scripture is God-breathed as it says it is? 2Tim 3:16?
Are there wolves in sheep's clothing as the bible asserts? Matt 7:15
Can men be deceived by devil as the Bible asserts? Genesis 3
Does the Bible warn about falling victim to the doctrines of demons? 1 Tim 4:1
Are we as believers to exercise spiritual discernment & judge by righteous judgment using scripture?
How do we show love for one another by not warning or reproving false teachings? 2Tim 3:16
It is not the Love of GOD to leave some to be over taken in deceptive teachings.
Titus 1:9-16 (Amplified Bible)
"9 He must hold fast to the sure and trustworthy Word of God as he was taught it, so that he may be able both to give stimulating instruction and encouragement in sound (wholesome) doctrine and to refute and convict those who contradict and oppose it...." [showing the wayward their error]."
 
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jgr

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Do you believe the bible scripture is God-breathed as it says it is? 2Tim 3:16?
Are there wolves in sheep's clothing as the bible asserts? Matt 7:15
Can men be deceived by devil as the Bible asserts? Genesis 3
Does the Bible warn about falling victim to the doctrines of demons? 1 Tim 4:1
Are we as believers to exercise spiritual discernment & judge by righteous judgment using scripture?
How do we show love for one another by not warning or reproving false teachings? 2Tim 3:16
It is not the Love of GOD to leave some to be over taken in deceptive teachings.
Titus 1:9-16 (Amplified Bible)
"9 He must hold fast to the sure and trustworthy Word of God as he was taught it, so that he may be able both to give stimulating instruction and encouragement in sound (wholesome) doctrine and to refute and convict those who contradict and oppose it...." [showing the wayward their error]."
How does God identify His Chosen People?

1. By their DNA
2. By their religion
3. By their culture
4. By their faith in, and obedience to, His Son

?
 
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parousia70

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It is not the Love of GOD to leave some to be over taken in deceptive teachings.
Titus 1:9-16 (Amplified Bible)
"9 He must hold fast to the sure and trustworthy Word of God as he was taught it, so that he may be able both to give stimulating instruction and encouragement in sound (wholesome) doctrine and to refute and convict those who contradict and oppose it...." [showing the wayward their error]."

My exact reason for my post #36 Above.

Teaching that the Nazarene sect of Judaism is NOT Jewish and NOT Israel (the way you do) is an opposition to scripture that must be refuted, and I'm here to provide the stimulating instruction, encouragement and sound doctrine to refute those who hold such erroneous views, and warn the truth seekers to steer clear of falling into such error.
 
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parousia70

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I wish people would read their bibles and stick to the Word of God

Unless you have a video you insist people watch... then you wish people would put down their bibles and watch youtube...

I guess you are the lone exception to your own rule, eh?

Which is it you really want me to do? Stick to the word of God and my bible or watch youtube videos?

You seem to be all over the map on this...

I listed plenty of scripture in my Post #36.
You are more than welcome to attempt to show our readers why those scriptures do not mean what I contend they do.
Otherwise, my assertions will stand unrefuted in this thread for all to see.

Which is fine with me :)
 
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