Flat Earth V.S Round Earth? (Also helio/geocentrism)

[LordDuncanBurneWilke]

Hate to break it to you, but you're participating on this thread as well. If I'm guilty, then so are you.

Glad you agree.

 

[Colter]

Well, yes, Jesus did confirm the entirety of the Old Testament as the Wisdom of God. I will believe that over any dissenting opinion.

Jesus did no such thing! In fact the Jews have solid, scripture based reason for rejecting Jesus as the Jewish Messiah. The problem wasn't Jesus, the problem was taking the scriptures and themselves too seriously. Jesus didn't come to fix the errors of Judaism and it's heavily exaggerated, biased claims. When he quoted scripture he selected the true portions and left the rest to die on the vine.

 

[Colter]

So, if you see someone being scammed and try to talk to them about it, would you be on a 'high horse', or just someone with better understanding of the situation?

I would try to help you. Preachers are leading you to feel guilty if you question the claims of the Hebrew priest who were simply writing pseudo-biographical story of origins for the scattered Israelites.

 

[Rigatoni]

I'm open to the idea of a flat earth; I mean, how awesome would it be if this is what the world really looked like from space:

However, I highly doubt the concept, and find it very hard to believe. As a student of architecture, I often look for precedence when adding an element to the design of a building I'm not familiar with, or when trying to figure out a solution to a problem - basically seeing how another architect was able to incorporate something similar into their design.

Patterns of spherical planets are replete throughout creation. Also, there is the concept of gravity; matter particles attract other matter particles, and they clump together to form a larger mass. Well, in theory, what shape would that mass naturally form? A sphere (or at least something close to it). Therefore, it would make more sense to assume the earth is spherical. Just my opinion. =)

 

[SeventyOne]

Jesus did no such thing! In fact the Jews have solid, scripture based reason for rejecting Jesus as the Jewish Messiah. The problem wasn't Jesus, the problem was taking the scriptures and themselves too seriously. Jesus didn't come to fix the errors of Judaism and it's heavily exaggerated, biased claims. When he quoted scripture he selected the true portions and left the rest to die on the vine.

Actually, He did. It's mentioned twice, once in Matthew and the other in Luke. I'll let you search it out.

 

[Weaser999]

I disagree, I think holy men wrote the scriptures, some more holy than others.

We have to take into consideration that God has to speak to us in ways that we can comprehend. In revelation John sees strange looking creatures and gives them animal descriptions because he doesnt comprehend what they actually are. If an alien came up to me and described the earth to me in purely quantum physics terms or in terms ive never heard of before, I eould stand there with a dumb look on my face unable to comprehend. God had to communicate with us through His word in ways we could understand 4 thousand years ago. Im sure in revelation God could have used longitude and latitude coordinates to describe where the Angels were standing and everyone reading it would have been scratching their heads. God uses metaphors for our benefit so that we can understand what He is saying at the time.

 

[JackRT]

Why does the Moon orbit Earth at 2,288 miles per hour while man made satellites orbit Earth at 17,500 miles per hour? A difference in speed of around 15,212mph.

The force of gravity diminishes as the inverse square of the distance between the centres of gravity of the objects --- Newton made that discovery 400 years ago. A satellite in low earth orbit is about 4000 miles from the centre of the earth whereas the moon is about 240,000 miles. The force of gravity is dramatically less meaning that much less speed is required to maintain the orbit.

Why is magnetism so much stronger than Gravity?

Excellent question. Einstein spent most of his adult life trying to figure that one out.

Why hasn't Saturn's rings formed moons?

The rings are made up of moons that were broken up by the force of Saturn's gravity because they were too close.

 

[SeventyOne]

I would try to help you. Preachers are leading you to feel guilty if you question the claims of the Hebrew priest who were simply writing pseudo-biographical story of origins for the scattered Israelites.

Nice, unfounded opinion about me you got there.

 

[Historical Christianity]

That's precisely the case! It's how Galileo got into so much trouble with the church when he rejected the geocentric universe. Few Christians are so willfully ignorant of science that they cling to a flat-earth paradigm. But many still do, as they reject the overwhelming evidence for evolution or an old earth. In other domains, they easily see how the ancients had no clue about what science has allowed us to learn in the last few centuries. But if someone has told them that an idea conflicts with their religion, the knee-jerk reaction is denial.

We don't hold it against an ancient people because they didn't know that most matter consists of atoms, and atoms consist of protons, electrons, and neutrons, and that neutrons consist of quarks. They had no access to any technology that would allow them to confirm or even discover this. An intelligent cave man might create a philosophical hypothesis that half a cup of water was still water, so there might be a fundamental 'water' particle. But he had no way to test it, so it remained philosophy. It should be no surprise, then, when an ancient philosophical idea fails a test of modern science.

 

[Colter]

Nice, unfounded opinion about me you got there.

If religion is the Belief that the Bible was written by God and it's horribly inconsistent internal story is a fact, then I don't believe it. If religion is a faith-trust in the goodness of God, then I'm religious. I will go where the truth leads me.

 

[SeventyOne]

If religion is the Belief that the Bible was written by God and it's horribly inconsistent internal story is a fact, then I don't believe it. If religion is a faith-trust in the goodness of God, then I'm religious. I will go where the truth leads me.

If the scriptures are horribly inconsistent, then on what basis are you trusting in the goodness of God or truth you claim to be following. What is your foundation? Are you just picking and choosing the scriptures that feel right to you and declaring those as truth, while rejecting all else?

 

[JacksBratt]

Here's the problem: Even discussing such an absurd issue gives the erroneous impression that this matter has not been settled. It has been settled. The flat-earthers are in need of a good shunning, to use an out-dated term. Yes, they are free to express their views, but we are also free to ignore them.

So, ignore them then.

The irrational distrust of science is getting out of hand. It's one thing to believe that the earth is flat - that hurts no one. But the same irrational thinking is responsible for climate change denial.

The distrust is of scientists, not science. Not only that, but, from what I see, science is a bullet train with a destination that does one thing........ remove God from the picture.

Scientists have an agenda that is bold and obvious.... It is to constantly rule out a superior being.

At this point in time we should be vigilant in testing and questioning anything that is presented to us, by the scientific groups, as a truth..... We should trust nothing we are told.

And that can be a disaster for the human race.

The disaster for the human race would be to blindly follow the words and teachings of men. Especially if it contradicts the word of God.

 

[PuerAzaelis]

I am afraid you will have to answer for your worldy concerns about trivial nonsense that lead to strife within the faith and leading many away from even exploring it. but the Father is merciful, so you have that.

 

[Colter]

If the scriptures are horribly inconsistent, then on what basis are you trusting in the goodness of God or truth you claim to be following. What is your foundation? Are you just picking and choosing the scriptures that feel right to you and declaring those as truth, while rejecting all else?

My foundation is the rock that Jesus established his kingdom on. It was the same foundation that the apostles had unconsciously used to realize the identity of the Son. They were perhaps unaware of the rock until Jesus pointed it out.

 

[PuerAzaelis]

Job 12
16 He is strong, and sound wisdom belongs to Him:
whether one deceives or is deceived, he is under God’s control.
17 He leads the counselors off as captives, barefoot and stripped;
He makes a mockery of judges.
18 He strips off the royal sashes of kings
and ties them at the waist, making them slaves as well.
19 He leads the priests away barefoot
and defeats the long-incumbent men of power.
20 He robs trusted advisors of speech;
He steals discretion from elders.

This thread is apparently for real.

No wonder Christians are viewed as a joke.

 

[2consider]

I have always (and still do) believe that the Earth is indeed spherical.

But I've noticed lately that there are a surprising number of Christians who hold to the flat earth/geocentric model. And so I was wondering which model people here subscribed to. I'm really interested in creating some discussion about this.

Do you believe the Earth is round or flat? What is your evidence?

Here's some of my evidence to start off:

• The night sky in the northern hemisphere appears to rotate around polaris. It appears to rotate the opposite direction in the southern hemisphere around the southern cross. This can't happen on the flat earth model.
  
• On the flat earth model, someone in Canada and someone in Argentina could potentially be looking at different sides of the moon, but everyone always sees the same side.
  
• Gps systems are created with a spherical earth in mind. They wouldn't work otherwise.
  
• Ships disappear over the horizon bottom first.
  
• This video shows how snipers have to take in to account the rotation of the Earth when shooting.

 

[christianpessimist]

I hope I haven't come off as mean spiritted so far. But I want to ask some things just to clarify the position of flat earthers here.

Was the moon landing a hoax? Do you believe we have satellites and probes? Do we have a vehicle on mars? Did we recently get pictures of Pluto? Why DO we see a completely different night sky in the southern hemisphere than in the north? If the 'dome' model is correct, then Polaris could be seen from anywhere on earth.

 

[CalPastor]

Here is my economic proof for a spherical earth...

The airlines count every penny! They are about economy to the fullest. They do not waste money.

Well, here is the test:

Put a flat map on table. Get some string. First, draw a straight line - using a ruler - from Seattle, Washington to Hannover, Germany. Cut a piece of string that length. Second, trace the path that airlines fly when they fly non-stop from Seattle to Hannover (you can see it on Flight Aware). You will notice that the path takes you over northern Canada, over Ireland, over London, en route to central Germany. Cut a piece of string that traces that path.

On the flat map - the "direct line" string is the shortest string. If the earth were indeed flat - that would be the route the airlines would take for sure. They are not into wasting money on anything. They would not fly a longer route to be part of a round earth conspiracy.

But, that is not the shortest route. If you take a globe - and do the same test - you will find that the shortest route is the polar route. The only reason this is true is because the earth was created by God as sphere.

I know Christian airline pilots. Men who love the word of God. One, in particular retired pilot who flew for Delta Airlines speaks in terms of the shorter nautical mile difference in flying - due to the earth's shape. It is a no-brainer. It is not a conspiracy that airlines want to fly the shortest routes possible.

I hope this humble submission is helpful in your thinking.

 

[SeventyOne]

My foundation is the rock that Jesus established his kingdom on. It was the same foundation that the apostles had unconsciously used to realize the identity of the Son. They were perhaps unaware of the rock until Jesus pointed it out.

Good. The rock is the truth Peter confessed, that Jesus was the Christ and the Son of the living God.

But the question remains, how do you even know that conversation took place? If scripture can't be trusted as accurate, and the men who wrote it as potentially untrustworthy, why do you even think Matthew was accurate with that account?

 

[expos4ever]

The disaster for the human race would be to blindly follow the words and teachings of men. Especially if it contradicts the word of God.

Oh please. Are you seriously expecting us to believe that the world is flat?