Women becoming pastors?

[SkyWriting]

Is gender an assumption most of the time? I think it is pretty easy to tell a male from a female myself.

Most of the time, it is. But a known percentage of all births
result in a baby that is, in some cases, not either gender.
And there are millions of cases that are difficult to determine.
Often the parents decide the gender and doctors alter the baby.

 

[SkyWriting]

Your choice, but I disagree.

Choose the lives of others, just as you would have them choose yours.

 

[Strong in Him]

People dispute that the rules exists, but no one has said he didn't break it.

He didn't break it.

 

[SkyWriting]

He didn't break it.

My neighbor happens to be a woman, (perhaps called to be a minister.) Read how I should treat my neighbor. Some of my neighbors are gay by the way.

34 Bible Verses about the Neighbor

Matthew 7:12 - Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

Luke 6:31 - And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

Galatians 5:14 - For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

James 2:8 - If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Mark 12:31 - And the second [is] like, [namely] this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

1 Peter 3:9 - Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing.

Matthew 7:1-5 - Judge not, that ye be not judged.


Now, take your rules about women, or gays, or whomever, and filter
them through each of these 34 passages, then justify your actions.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

yes but thats old thinking. Weve moved on - and theres lots of female pastors thank goodness. Biblical thinking will just have to catch up

No, I disagree. The Word of God like God is timeless and eternal. If we apply this sort of criticism to Scripture taking a "that was then, this is now" approach, we cheapen god's word, and we are questioning truths that have been revealed to us.

Biblical thinking has to catch up? I don't think so; rather I think that when praxis and doctrine are at odds with Scripture, then it becomes "non Biblical" or even "anti-biblical" thinking.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

My neighbor happens to be a woman, (perhaps called to be a minister.) Read how I should treat my neighbor.

34 Bible Verses about the Neighbor

Matthew 7:12 - Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

Luke 6:31 - And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

Galatians 5:14 - For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

James 2:8 - If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Mark 12:31 - And the second [is] like, [namely] this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

1 Peter 3:9 - Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing.

Matthew 7:1-5 - Judge not, that ye be not judged.

You treat her with respect. It is not by my Church's authority that women are ordained, however if their Church chooses to do so, I might question or circularize why they choose to do so; but since I'm not under their authority or the authority of their pastors, I don't have a dog in that hunt. So, I would treat her with respect and kindness.

 

[Zoii]

No, I disagree. The Word of God like God is timeless and eternal. If we apply this sort of criticism to Scripture taking a "that was then, this is now" approach, we cheapen god's word, and we are questioning truths that have been revealed to us.

Biblical thinking has to catch up? I don't think so; rather I think that when praxis and doctrine are at odds with Scripture, then it becomes "non Biblical" or even "anti-biblical" thinking.

Not at all - we have to acknowledge that some of the sentiment was relevant then but not now. There are lots of laws and mores littered through OT and NT that were based on a society that was uneducated with little connection to today's society. To suggest we should adapt the philosophy espoused from the bible to today's time just isn't realistic. That women cant be leaders or a pastor is one such issue that is irrelevant in today's society.

 

[Zoii]

Well it's my choice to go to the church, but it was not my choice that they would ordain women. That was taken by clergy, bishops, ministers at their Synod, Conference or whatever they call it. And I know that in the Anglican church, (which I used to belong to) it took years of debate, prayer and discussion to come to that point. In the CofE synod there are 3 "houses"; bishops, clergy and laity - and any motion has to have 2/3 majority in each before it can be passed.
I know some would still say that this doesn't make it right; I'm just trying to show that, in the CofE at least, the decision was never a quick or easy one, taken on a whim or without a good deal of prayer and discussion.

If you want to talk about human authority, it is mostly men who are involved in these decisions and discussions, mostly men who are involved in the training and ordination process and most of the time a female curate, or probationer minister, will have a male vicar, bishop or Superintendent over her. God gives authority, men recognise it, and allow, and equip, women to carry out their calling.
This being the case, how can a woman who teaches/leads a congregation be snatching authority away from men?

Havent you observed that women are "snatching" leadership in all walks of life. in 21st century the line of thinking that women dont have god's authority to lead is just outdated thinking IMO.

 

[SkyWriting]

You treat her with respect. It is not by my Church's authority that women are ordained, however if their Church chooses to do so, I might question or circularize why they choose to do so; but since I'm not under their authority or the authority of their pastors, I don't have a dog in that hunt. So, I would treat her with respect and kindness.

Treat her just as you would wish her to treat you.
Make up gender based church rules?
Not allowed by God.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Not at all - we have to acknowledge that some of the sentiment was relevant then but not now. There are lots of laws and mores littered through OT and NT that were based on a society that was uneducated with little connection to today's society. To suggest we shouldn't adopt the philosophy espoused from the bible to today's time just isn't realistic. That women cant be leaders or a pastor is one such issue that is irrelevant in today's society.

Maybe it is society that is no longer relevant to Biblical authority; it seems every aspect of society is rejecting that authority of late. What is not realistic is to expect the whole of society to accept that authority. Even in the old Testament, God did not impose or enforce laws until they were needed. My take on society is that we Christians need the guidance of Scripture more now than ever, as licence is taken with every single part of law and Gospel virtually everywhere we look.

 

[Zoii]

Maybe it is society that is no longer relevant to Biblical authority; it seems every aspect of society is rejecting that authority of late. What is not realistic is to expect the whole of society to accept that authority. Even in the old Testament, God did not impose or enforce laws until they were needed. My take on society is that we Christians need the guidance of Scripture more now than ever, as licence is taken with every single part of law and Gospel virtually everywhere we look.

I disagree. I dont accept that there is anything against god in having female pastors. I for one feel much more comfortable with one and a statement that was applied to uneducated women 2000 years ago no longer has relevance

 

[ToBeLoved]

yes but thats old thinking. Weve moved on - and theres lots of female pastors thank goodness. Biblical thinking will just have to catch up

The Bible is truth. The truth does not become outdated. God doesn't change His thinking so I will not.

Saying it is outdated IMHO an excuse and is not valid.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Scripture does not allow for it. Paul mis-taught.

Sure. Paul was wrong. Ok. Whatever.

 

[Strong in Him]

Havent you observed that women are "snatching" leadership in all walks of life.

Non christians who "snatch leadership" by ruthless behaviour, ambition or whatever are not the same as Christians who believe this is God's will for them.
And I didn't say "snatching leadership"; I said "snatching authority". How does one snatch what is freely given?

 

[Zoii]

The Bible is truth. The truth does not become outdated. God doesn't change His thinking so I will not.

Saying it is outdated IMHO an excuse and is not valid.

By outdated i mean that you cant apply laws that were focussed on an ignorant tribal society. Why would we... and indeed we dont. We dont stone people, we eat pork, we dont let minors marry, society works on Sundays.... and now women are educated n some are pastors... now our world n christianity hasnt collapsed as a result

 

[Zoii]

Non christians who "snatch leadership" by ruthless behaviour, ambition or whatever are not the same as Christians who believe this is God's will for them.
And I didn't say "snatching leadership"; I said "snatching authority". How does one snatch what is freely given?

Nonsense... women gain leadership and authority because they have the requisite skills and attributes

 

[2Timothy2:15]

My neighbor happens to be a woman, (perhaps called to be a minister.) Read how I should treat my neighbor. Some of my neighbors are gay by the way.

34 Bible Verses about the Neighbor

Matthew 7:12 - Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

Luke 6:31 - And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

Galatians 5:14 - For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

James 2:8 - If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Mark 12:31 - And the second [is] like, [namely] this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

1 Peter 3:9 - Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing.

Matthew 7:1-5 - Judge not, that ye be not judged.


Now, take your rules about women, or gays, or whomever, and filter
them through each of these 34 passages, then justify your actions.

And isn't telling people the truth in LOVE actually real love? If my neighbor is living a sinful lifestyle love is not turning a blind eye and agreeing with their sin. But loving them by giving them the gospel in truth is real love. This is the problem, many people have a twisted sense of love. Somehow the devil has convinced people that not saying any truth is being "nice" or "loving your neighbor". In reality, you are loving them straight to hell.

 

[2Timothy2:15]

Nonsense... women gain leadership and authority because they have the requisite skills and attributes

Where does it say in the bible that we identify leaders by "skills" and "attributes"?

 

[2Timothy2:15]

I disagree. I dont accept that there is anything against god in having female pastors. I for one feel much more comfortable with one and a statement that was applied to uneducated women 2000 years ago no longer has relevance

Right, because a pastor's role is making people feel "comfortable"...

 

[Strong in Him]

And isn't telling people the truth in LOVE actually real love? If my neighbor is living a sinful lifestyle love is not turning a blind eye and agreeing with their sin.

It depends.
If the lady isn't a Christian, she may not care that God regards the things that she might call small mistakes, as sins and needs to do anything about them.

If you are implying that a woman who is considering a call to the Christian Ministry is sinning; that is a matter for debate - as obviously we are doing here. But if her church, and those who have authority over, and pastoral responsibility for, her agree that she has a call from God and are supporting her in it - rushing in to say "you're sinning and need to repent" won't be very helpful.