Women becoming pastors?

[Strong in Him]

Nonsense... women gain leadership and authority because they have the requisite skills and attributes

The discussion was about women who become ordained Ministers and by doing so, and teaching and preaching, "snatch authority" from men.
I was asking how someone can "snatch authority", by force, because that is what the word usurp implies, from anyone, when authority is given by God and recognised by men.

If your answer is, they can't; they gain authority by their skills and attributes, then you are in fact agreeing with me. Women, or anyone, cannot SNATCH authority, we gain, earn or receive it.

To answer my question "how?" with the word "nonsense", doesn't itself make sense.

 

[2Timothy2:15]

It depends.
If the lady isn't a Christian, she may not care that God regards the things that she might call small mistakes, as sins and needs to do anything about them.

If you are implying that a woman who is considering a call to the Christian Ministry is sinning; that is a matter for debate - as obviously we are doing here. But if her church, and those who have authority over, and pastoral responsibility for, her agree that she has a call from God and are supporting her in it - rushing in to say "you're sinning and need to repent" won't be very helpful.

If the lady isn't a Christian isn't it more the reason to tell her the truth? Man or woman as for this gender is not the concern, sin is.

I am not implying anything. There is a difference between being called to "ministry" and called to shepherd. BTW - we are all called to ministry, to minister the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Now, my statement about telling the love in truth is in reference to sin in general. I hear people say love love, but they do not know what love is. So when Jesus told the rich young ruler to sell all that he has was he doing this in love or in a mean spirit? Today, people would say you were judging, or not loving....but what JESUS was doing was pointing out his IDOL..his sin.....if you go to a doctor and he tells you that your sick and you need medicine is he being mean because he says your sick? NO, he is doing his job, he is identifying the root issue and giving you the cure. The cure for sin, is the cross, it is JESUS and the gospel alone...

 

[2Timothy2:15]

It depends.
If the lady isn't a Christian, she may not care that God regards the things that she might call small mistakes, as sins and needs to do anything about them.

If you are implying that a woman who is considering a call to the Christian Ministry is sinning; that is a matter for debate - as obviously we are doing here. But if her church, and those who have authority over, and pastoral responsibility for, her agree that she has a call from God and are supporting her in it - rushing in to say "you're sinning and need to repent" won't be very helpful.

If the lady isn't a Christian isn't it more the reason to tell her the truth? Man or woman as for this gender is not the concern, sin is.

I am not implying anything. There is a difference between being called to "ministry" and called to shepherd. BTW - we are all called to ministry, to minister the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Now, my statement about telling the love in truth is in reference to sin in general. I hear people say love love, but they do not know what love is. So when Jesus told the rich young ruler to sell all that he has was he doing this in love or in a mean spirit? Today, people would say you were judging, or not loving....but what JESUS was doing was pointing out his IDOL..his sin.....if you go to a doctor and he tells you that your sick and you need medicine is he being mean because he says your sick? NO, he is doing his job, he is identifying the root issue and giving you the cure. The cure for sin, is the cross, it is JESUS and the gospel alone...

 

[2Timothy2:15]

It depends.
If the lady isn't a Christian, she may not care that God regards the things that she might call small mistakes, as sins and needs to do anything about them.

If you are implying that a woman who is considering a call to the Christian Ministry is sinning; that is a matter for debate - as obviously we are doing here. But if her church, and those who have authority over, and pastoral responsibility for, her agree that she has a call from God and are supporting her in it - rushing in to say "you're sinning and need to repent" won't be very helpful.

If the lady isn't a Christian isn't it more the reason to tell her the truth? Man or woman as for this gender is not the concern, sin is.

I am not implying anything. There is a difference between being called to "ministry" and called to shepherd. BTW - we are all called to ministry, to minister the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Now, my statement about telling the love in truth is in reference to sin in general. I hear people say love love, but they do not know what love is. So when Jesus told the rich young ruler to sell all that he has was he doing this in love or in a mean spirit? Today, people would say you were judging, or not loving....but what JESUS was doing was pointing out his IDOL..his sin.....if you go to a doctor and he tells you that your sick and you need medicine is he being mean because he says your sick? NO, he is doing his job, he is identifying the root issue and giving you the cure. The cure for sin, is the cross, it is JESUS and the gospel alone...

 

[2Timothy2:15]

It depends.
If the lady isn't a Christian, she may not care that God regards the things that she might call small mistakes, as sins and needs to do anything about them.

If you are implying that a woman who is considering a call to the Christian Ministry is sinning; that is a matter for debate - as obviously we are doing here. But if her church, and those who have authority over, and pastoral responsibility for, her agree that she has a call from God and are supporting her in it - rushing in to say "you're sinning and need to repent" won't be very helpful.

If the lady isn't a Christian isn't it more the reason to tell her the truth? Man or woman as for this gender is not the concern, sin is.

I am not implying anything. There is a difference between being called to "ministry" and called to shepherd. BTW - we are all called to ministry, to minister the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Now, my statement about telling the love in truth is in reference to sin in general. I hear people say love love, but they do not know what love is. So when Jesus told the rich young ruler to sell all that he has was he doing this in love or in a mean spirit? Today, people would say you were judging, or not loving....but what JESUS was doing was pointing out his IDOL..his sin.....if you go to a doctor and he tells you that your sick and you need medicine is he being mean because he says your sick? NO, he is doing his job, he is identifying the root issue and giving you the cure. The cure for sin, is the cross, it is JESUS and the gospel alone...

 

[DrBubbaLove]

The discussion was about women who become ordained Ministers and by doing so, and teaching and preaching, "snatch authority" from men.
I was asking how someone can "snatch authority", by force, because that is what the word usurp implies, from anyone, when authority is given by God and recognised by men.

If your answer is, they can't; they gain authority by their skills and attributes, then you are in fact agreeing with me. Women, or anyone, cannot SNATCH authority, we gain, earn or receive it.

To answer my question "how?" with the word "nonsense", doesn't itself make sense.

Without reading 400+ replies has anyone suggested allowing woman as pastors to lead a congregation of believers (men and women) goes against our current fallen nature?
I could see and many Christian faiths do have women leaders and leadership within the Church, but not as Pastors. Such women can and do gain our respect, many have been made Saints. But there are fundamental reasons for objecting to them as leaders of a flock that includes both sexes. So unless the leadership position is one over only females, like a Mother Superior, then there are strong arguments against it.

 

[Zoii]

Where does it say in the bible that we identify leaders by "skills

The discussion was about women who become ordained Ministers and by doing so, and teaching and preaching, "snatch authority" from men.
I was asking how someone can "snatch authority", by force, because that is what the word usurp implies, from anyone, when authority is given by God and recognised by men.

If your answer is, they can't; they gain authority by their skills and attributes, then you are in fact agreeing with me. Women, or anyone, cannot SNATCH authority, we gain, earn or receive it.

To answer my question "how?" with the word "nonsense", doesn't itself make sense.

But they have. Goodness look around you - please open your eyes. Women are in leadership around western nations. This isn't new. And they are there because of their capacity to do the job. If they do any "snatching" from men its because they out competed their male counterpart proving that they could do the job with greater outcomes. That includes positions within Christianity.

So by virtue of the fact they ARE pastors, they therefore do have the authority to preach to a congregation. I'm sorry but this is NOT year 20 AD. Weve moved on and your particular interpretation of some verses in the bible changes nothing in that regard. They still exist as pastors whether you like it or not.

 

[Zoii]

Right, because a pastor's role is making people feel "comfortable"...

Thats certainly an important component yes. I know all about pastors that have a history. So yes a pastor that can make its congregation comfortable, are approachable, can counsel...need I go on...Im surprised you'd challenge the concept actually.

 

[2Timothy2:15]

But they have. Goodness look around you - please open your eyes. Women are in leadership around western nations. This isn't new. And they are there because of their capacity to do the job. If they do any "snatching" from men its because they out competed their male counterpart proving that they could do the job with greater outcomes. That includes positions within Christianity.

So by virtue of the fact they ARE pastors, they therefore do have the authority to preach to a congregation. I'm sorry but this is NOT year 20 AD. Weve moved on and your particular interpretation of some verses in the bible changes nothing in that regard. They still exist as pastors whether you like it or not.

Yes, they are pastors, that does not make it correct either.

 

[2Timothy2:15]

Thats certainly an important component yes. I know all about pastors that have a history. So yes a pastor that can make its congregation comfortable, are approachable, can counsel...need I go on...Im surprised you'd challenge the concept actually.

Because often a good pastor is not about making you comfortable but rather being the shepherd he is suppose to be which often involves telling people things they do not want to hear. Now, with that being said, of course a good shepherd loves people, but making them comfortable is not priority number one....frankly I am weary of any pastor who wants me comfortable......

 

[Cimorene]

My cousin is majoring in religion & planning on divinity school. I'm really proud of her & think she'll do great.

 

[samir]

Women ARE pastors

Not in Christian churches.

 

[Philip_B]

Not in Christian churches.

I respect your right to have a different opinion. I do not think the statement in this post is helpful or true. The inference the post contains is that a Church which authorises women in particular ministries ceases to be part of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. You may regard women's ministry heterodox, or heteropraxy, however that does not make it un-Christian. I strongly hold the view that you should rethink the post in it's current format.

 

[Zoii]

Because often a good pastor is not about making you comfortable but rather being the shepherd he is suppose to be which often involves telling people things they do not want to hear. Now, with that being said, of course a good shepherd loves people, but making them comfortable is not priority number one....frankly I am weary of any pastor who wants me comfortable......

OK I guess we have both made our points and understand each others position - you obviously think my view is unbiblical and my view of yours has been clearly stated I hope. Regardless though of what either of our views are, more and more pastors will be female. Im happy about it, and I guess its up to you how you embrace it [or not]

 

[Zoii]

Not in Christian churches.

Well thats not true. Perhaps you should google because your misinformed.

 

[timothygrae]

Because often a good pastor is not about making you comfortable but rather being the shepherd he is suppose to be which often involves telling people things they do not want to hear. Now, with that being said, of course a good shepherd loves people, but making them comfortable is not priority number one....frankly I am weary of any pastor who wants me comfortable......

I feel this has come down to personal preference now. Besides, different people have different roles and giftings (1 Corinthians 12). Hence why several churches have several pastors, such as Youth pastors, music pastors etc. And to keep it relevant to the topic, I feel that a woman can have any of these giftings, hence be a pastor...

 

[Strong in Him]

They still exist as pastors whether you like it or not.

I DO like it, and agree with it.
If you read my posts, I'm arguing that women have callings to be Pastors and should be allowed to test that calling.

I was asking those who say that a woman should not snatch the spiritual authority given to men, how can that happen when God, and the men, bestow and recognise that authority on her?

GOD gives authority, and men are recognising that a woman has a calling from God and train and ordaining them. So if that is that case, and a female pastor has the blessing, agreement, permission and co-operation of the whole church, as well as God; how can she be said to have usurped, or snatched by force, the authority of men?

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

I feel this has come down to personal preference now. Besides, different people have different roles and giftings (1 Corinthians 12). Hence why several churches have several pastors, such as Youth pastors, music pastors etc. And to keep it relevant to the topic, I feel that a woman can have any of these giftings, hence be a pastor...

Further to this, this is a good article on the historic role of women in the Church (from my Church's POV: http://lutheranchurch.ca/canluth/cl2904-the-diaconate-in-lcc.pdf

 

[timothygrae]

Further to this, this is a good article on the historic role of women in the Church (from my Church's POV: http://lutheranchurch.ca/canluth/cl2904-the-diaconate-in-lcc.pdf

Excellent article, describes brilliantly the role of the deacon, I must say it is one of the most cohesive explanations I have read in my time. It's recognitions of the diversity of the role as well as the the various giftings of persons, as well as the acknowledgment that women can have such giftings, is another aspect of which I approve.

Since the article doesn't so much focus on women being pastors, I won't comment further on that particular issue; I've put my two cents in in previous messages.

Thank you for this article, I will certainly refer persons to it in future should they inquire of the role of the diaconate.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Excellent article, describes brilliantly the role of the deacon, I must say it is one of the most cohesive explanations I have read in my time. It's recognitions of the diversity of the role as well as the the various giftings of persons, as well as the acknowledgment that women can have such giftings, is another aspect of which I approve.

Since the article doesn't so much focus on women being pastors, I won't comment further on that particular issue; I've put my two cents in in previous messages.

Thank you for this article, I will certainly refer persons to it in future should they inquire of the role of the diaconate.

You are welcome.

There is no mention of women being Pastors, as Lutheran Church Canada does not ordain women to the Office of the Holy Ministry. Not a Lutheran source, but this explains our position: Christianity and Ethnicity in Canada
(Page 263).

Also, how we define Pastor is likely a bit different from the Baptist view considering our more historicaly traditional view of the Sacraments: Lutheran Church–Canada  +++  History & Beliefs