Women becoming pastors?

LouisBooth

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You used the word "discredited", not me
Yes, as examples of your conclusion, they were discredited. You framed the statement incorrectly.

but you have already referred to this teaching as "lies".
Like I said, omission is not confirmation. I'm truly undecided on this issue, but I've seen only examples and not biblical justification given. In that way you should encourage your children to get drunk and naked, or fornicate before they come to know God because there are many examples in the bible of Great people of God doing that.

Your reply would be that the bible expressly talks against that. I'd say, you're right, as it does with female leadership....and here we are.
 
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The way I see it, if God can speak to Balaam through the mouth of a donkey (Numbers 22), how can you justify saying that God can't speak through women? You need to remember that Paul is writing with a certain context, and in this circumstance he is writing in a society where women are uneducated, and constant interruption during church meetings to occur due to a woman's lack of understanding is obviously going to disrupt proceedings. Note the next verse clearly encourages women to learn the Word of God, though in private, therefore acknowledging that women are capable of understanding, and suggesting that this instruction is given in response to lack of education.
We can see through the Old Testament women of high regard and in positions of leadership sanctioned by God, namely Miriam, Deborah and Huldah. Clearly, God can use women as leaders in his church. To suggest that this is outdated doctrine is a baseless claim, and to me seems to imply that God's power has become more limited since Old Testament times. And while several elements of Old Testament doctrine are outdated, this particular issue seems to be fairly stable in terms of validity in maintaining relevance in moder culture.
And then there are the people who will say, 'God created man first.' Well, actually, God created fish and birds before even man, and I don't see us appointing them church leaders. To then say that woman was deceived by the Serpent indicates that they are less qualified to leads churches is clearly undertaken in forgetting Romans 3:23; "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God," i.e. We are all as bad as each other, no individual is worth more to God.
I am not saying that all people are capable of being pastors. I believe God gifts individuals differently in order to serve a specific purpose, to form the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12). And if a woman has the gift of preaching and leadership, than that is clearly given unto them by God, and to work against that would surely work against the advancement of the kingdom?
 
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South Bound

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The way I see it, if God can speak to Balaam through the mouth of a donkey (Numbers 22), how can you justify saying that God can't speak through women?

Straw man. Nobody is saying God can't do anything He wants.

What we're pointing out to you is that the Bible has different roles for different people and, in this case, does not allow women into pastor or elder roles.

We can see through the Old Testament women of high regard and in positions of leadership sanctioned by God, namely Miriam, Deborah and Huldah.

And which of these women were pastors in the Church?

Clearly, God can use women as leaders in his church.

Again, it isn't about what God can or cannot do but about what God has instructed us to do.

To then say that woman was deceived by the Serpent indicates that they are less qualified to leads churches is clearly undertaken in forgetting Romans 3:23; "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God," i.e. We are all as bad as each other, no individual is worth more to God.

Again with the straw an arguments. Nobody is claiming that women are "worse" or "worth less", only that God has given different roles to men and women.

And if a woman has the gift of preaching and leadership, than that is clearly given unto them by God, and to work against that would surely work against the advancement of the kingdom?

If she has the gift of preaching and leadership and wants to honor God, then why not be an evangelist or teacher and mentor to of women and children, rather than try to usurp God's roles for the sexes?
 
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"What we're pointing out to you is that the Bible has different roles for different people and, in this case, does not allow women into pastor or elder roles."

Galatians 3:26-28
'For in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. For as many of you were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.'
What would you say the role of a pastor was? To evangelise? To help Christians grow in faith? To prophesy? We see at the tomb that Mary was the first person to preach the Gospel, as commanded by an angel, and we see with the woman at the well Jesus instruct the Samaratin woman to share with her people the message he had brought. Priscilla aided Acquilla in teaching Apollos of the Gospels. Deborah was a prophetess and a judge; a general, a military leader. Miriam was a prophetess and reknowned leader of worship.
I would argue that God most certainly does allow for women to have a role in his church; especially since 1 Corinthians 10 states that the church is the body of Christ, not some building or association.

"And which of these women [Deborah, Miriam, Hulda] were pastors in the Church?"

None of these three, technically. I think you'll find that the church format of early AD years is vastly different to current protestant models. In fact, it is more likely to resemble the Catholic model, which strongly maintains traditions that are documented throughout time.
But I will also direct you to Romans 16:1-2, in which a woman named Phoebe is commended as 'a servant of the church,' though when we look at the original Greek translation, one notices that the word used to describe her as 'servant' is the same as what is used to describe even Paul as a minister... And note that Paul says 'Let me commend to you Phoebe'...

"Again, it isn't about what God can or cannot do but about what God has instructed us to do."

I think you'll find that it is what Paul instructed the Corinthians to do. I very much doubt that Paul knew that this would be read by millions thousands of years into the future, and doubt that he wrote it as such. And while I believe it is divinely inspired, one must consider context when reading Paul's letters. In a culture where women are uneducated, constant questions disrupting teachings within meetings of the believers' would disrupt the learning of the greater church body. Though they are encouraged to seek understanding from their husbands in private; if women were banned from preaching and evangelising, surely they would only need instruction, not understanding?|

"Again with the straw an arguments. Nobody is claiming that women are "worse" or "worth less", only that God has given different roles to men and women."

God has given different roles to everyone. But I don't think God has limited Himself to only using men as pastors or evangelisers. I know, 'God can do what He wants, we have to do what he says,' but God instructs us to be Christ-like; and Christ used women to spread the gospel, Mary from the tomb, the woman at the well...

"If she has the gift of preaching and leadership and wants to honor God, then why not be an evangelist or teacher and mentor to of women and children, rather than try to usurp God's roles for the sexes?"

Honouring God is doing what God calls you to do. If you feel God has called you to be a pastor, do it. Of course, there are people who claim God called them to do all sorts of things that aren't Biblically based, but I really don't think female pastoring is one of those things. There are clear Biblical examples of God using women as leaders in his church (being the entire body of believers, again, not some building or company or organisation, 1 Corinthians 12), so it doesn't make sense that God would call us to be Godly and then instruct us to do the opposite of what He Himself has done?
 
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Sheep4Christ

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How do we know if women weren't pastoring churches during the time of Paul? He mentioned a few that laboured with him in the gospel in Philippians 4 and asked that they be helped. So what exactly did he mean by this? And why even ask that they be helped if Paul was so against women?
 
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Sheep4Christ

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Here's another point: If the only thing women are allowed to do is preach to other women and children then why are so many men in their ministries? Wouldn't it be the men in the wrong for allowing a woman to teach them and usurp their authority? Should women pastors ask all the grown men to leave?
 
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daleksteve

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What we're pointing out to you is that the Bible has different roles for different people and, in this case, does not allow women into pastor or elder roles.

That's nonsense because God actively calls women to be pastors and leadership in the church.

He has called many women to be full-time minsters in the Salvation Army. This suggests to me that church doctrine is out of date on women not allowed to preach because if women were not allowed to preach, god would not call them to do so.
 
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ToBeLoved

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Seems as if they don't believe that a certain part of the NT is inspired.
I spoke to a religious female cousin who said that what Paul wrote is nonsense.
Doesn't bother her one bit to say that while quoting other scriptures of the NT, including those written by Paul, with deep, reverent awe.
Yup. The pick n choose kinda folks.

You either believe it all or don't believe it all.
 
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ToBeLoved

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Here's another point: If the only thing women are allowed to do is preach to other women and children then why are so many men in their ministries? Wouldn't it be the men in the wrong for allowing a woman to teach them and usurp their authority? Should women pastors ask all the grown men to leave?
Good point.

There are reasons that God put a heirarchy into place. And I am a woman, so it is not a man saying this.
 
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ToBeLoved

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That's nonsense because God actively calls women to be pastors and leadership in the church.

He has called many women to be full-time minsters in the Salvation Army. This suggests to me that church doctrine is out of date on women not allowed to preach because if women were not allowed to preach, god would not call them to do so.
The Bible does not go out of date. Truth does not go out of date.

Although your specific church doctrine (by men/human beings who sin) may go out of date. God does not.
 
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daleksteve

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Yup. The pick n choose kinda folks.

You either believe it all or don't believe it all.

Some of the new testament is not supposed to be read literally. Apart form the gospels the rest of it just a collection of letters written to various churches of the time. Then we have Revelation which is just a prophecy book.
 
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SkyWriting

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A church near me has a woman pastor senior pastor. My take on this that a woman should not be the senior pastor of a church. In which the Bible speaks highly against it.
What is your take on this?

Not the Bible. Just Paul and one of his mistakes.
Gender rules are not allowed.
 
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Paul's writings need two witnesses?

I thought the two witness doctrine is to prevent gossip/slander when proving someone did/does wrong?
The point was that what he said was law (keeping silent) is not found anywhere in the OT. I googled the first thing to come up and this might help in the understanding.
Women remain silent in the Church - Destined To Be Revealed

but this is a very old thread to my participation and I have no desire to be active in it any longer.
 
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SkyWriting

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Not only is in Unbiblical, but scratch the surface where you see a woman "pastor" and you'll almost always find a host of other doctrinal problems.

Make no rules against a women pastor, lest she make up rules for you.
DO unto others.....yes even women. For this is the essence of the Law and the prophets.
 
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daleksteve

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The Bible does not go out of date. Truth does not go out of date.

Although your specific church doctrine (by men/human beings who sin) may go out of date. God does not.

I don't care what Paul said in a letter to a church a few thousand years ago. What matters is that in the 21st century God is actively calling women to be minsters.

If what you claim is right, why is god calling women to ministry in the church.
 
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