What if it were you?

[John Hyperspace]

Good point, it's no different than the ISIS concept of deity. They put people in cages and set them on fire.....but the poor souls do die rather quickly. In the hell torture place belief, that burning continues for an eternity.

Yes, exactly. Which is what I mean. All people with any kind of heart or love for their fellows (which Christians should show) know that such a thing is vile and evil. If any being on earth (or, anywhere for that matter) did anything like this "endless torture" to anyone, everyone would agree the being is an evil horror. Yet, somehow, the "hellfire" preachers claim "But when God does it, it is good and just"?

I liken it to, a man who claims how good he is, then tells you he has a torture chamber in his basement in which he endlessly tortures helpless women who didn't requite his love. Any person who heard the man would immediately call the police and report the monster.

Yet, some Christians have no problem painting the exact same picture onto God, then teaching people "This is what God is" and scratching their heads when people run screaming in terror from God. And they don't even look at what they're saying and think "Something is very wrong with this picture I'm painting of God"

A lot of the time they think "But I read it in the bible" yet cannot come to the simple understanding that they must be misunderstanding what they're reading.

 

[1213]

The best thing to do is, torture you forever. How can you even possibley say such a thing?

By what I know, hell is place where soul and body are destroyed. I don’t see how destroyed would feel or suffer eternally.

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell…
Matt. 10:28-31

But if I understand that wrongly and people live in hell eternally and suffer, I believe the suffering comes from their own unrighteousness and I believe God’s judgment will be right.

So let's say, we've got a little girl. She sweet as bee pollen. Always caring, always there with a smile to cheer others. Always helpful. Always encouraging those who are sad. She's in her teens. No one has anything but good to say about her. She's a Muslim, by the way. She was brought up in a strict family, and never really had the opportuinty to get an education. She's killed in a bombing attack one day.

So what say you? Eternal torture the best thing for her?

I have not enough information to judge that imaginary person, who very possible doesn’t even exist, but I know this:

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

If the person is not righteous, she doesn’t get eternal life. And the opposite of life will be the second death. By words of Jesus hell is a place where soul and body are destroyed. I don’t think destroyed being feels or suffers. But can non-Christian be righteous? On basis of the following scripture, I think it is possible that person is righteous, even if he/she has not heard of Jesus.

For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without the law. As many as have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. For it isn't the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law will be justified (for when Gentiles who don't have the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience testifying with them, and their thoughts among themselves accusing or else excusing them) in the day when God will judge the secrets of men, according to my gospel, by Jesus Christ.
Romans 2:12-16

If a non-Christian does God’s will, he may be righteous and get the eternal life.

 

[smithed64]

To steer back toward the intent of the original post; it's more of a question of:

1. Is a good/benevolent/merciful God morally and ethically justified in the act of executing the sentence of eternal burning torment in literal fire to those whose theology is either wholly or partially correct?

This really is a trick question.

Your theology is either right or wrong. Not whole or partial.
If it's right then you worship God in the manner in which we should. In Holiness, reverence, fear and love. Knowing that we shouldn't fear what man can do to us, but to the one who can send us to hell, we should fear.
But no one deserves heaven. Not one of us. We are sinners, we are born with it and we all have done so.
If your theology is right, you know God to be loving, caring, all knowing, all powerful, the creator, that he holds wrath against those who sin, and because He is just will judge them righteously and with true justice.
About belief. The question isn't how you believe or what you believe in. The question is "Is what you believe in to be true?" And that is what sound theology does for us. It teaches who God is. What the Word of God is. The trinity and such.

Now you mainly speak of the Church of Christ. That's a whole different subject.
And the only thing I can say about that is. Does the teachings of the Church of Christ align with the Bible? Do they teach that sin is what sends you to Hell? Does it teach that Christ is the only way to be with the father? Does it teach that God even though a loving and benevolent God, is also a righteous and just God who will judge the sins of man?

If no to any of them and that's just a touch of what theology teaches us. Then you might want to seek in prayer with God another church. Like you I don't tear down this denomination. Nor do I judge them. I only ask where do they stand biblically and if they are contrary to God's word, then leave. If they are inline with God's word then stay and worship God.

Again, It doesn't matter what you believe, on that what you believe in to be true?

On God's justification. Of course He's justified to judge and part out judgment eternally. He is an eternal, righteous and just God.

Let me put it to you this way.
If I were to steal from my child, there isn't much He could do to me, right?
If I were to steal the same thing from my wife, well she could get angry and make me sleep on the sofa.
If I were to steal the same thing from a store, I'd go to jail
If I were to steal from the government, it's federal and I'd go to prison.

You see, I've stole the same thing from different people at different degrees of punishment. But no matter what, I'm a thief and I've broken God's command not to steal. And all those that I took from, I also sinned directly against God. Every sin you commit, no matter what it is, stacks wrath against you in front of God. You sin directly against Him. And He hates sin, He'll have nothing to do with it. It makes Him physically sick. So, because He is an eternal God, he will judge and pass judgment, eternally.

And this is true, no matter how much theology you know or don't know. There is no excuse.

Love is a state of empathy. We call people "sociopaths" when they cannot empathize with the suffering of others. I know that I suffer when I see anyone else suffering. Because I empathize with their suffering. It hurts me when others hurt. This is what love really is. If God is love; and He is - then He would necessarily empathize with the suffering of others, friend or foe. This means that if a truly loving God sentenced anyone to eternal literal horror and suffering, He must by His very nature be sentencing Himself to the same eternal suffering because of His empathy.

He does empathize with our suffering, that's why He came in the form of Man, In Christ he took the cross, so that we wouldn't have to.

He is love, but he is also just. And because He has no sin, which by nature and living we do, He needs not sentence himself to the same eternal suffering. Because he carried our sins, yet never sinned. He did pay for our sins, but we refuse to accept that payment and rebel against Him.
You misunderstand. God doesn't want to send us to Hell. In His mercy He has made a way out, Thru Christ. In his mercy He gives everyone a chance to know who Christ is, to repent of their sins and put their trust in Christ. Living and reading His Word daily. staying in prayer and taking the guidance of the Holy Spirit. But many don't do this, many rebel against God, by sinning. transgressing His laws.

What you say about him sentencing Himself, doesn't make sense. Let's apply this to a earthly judge.

You stand before a judge. You've been arrested for a grizzly murder, Your sorry and have shown remorse for what you've done and you not only tell the judge this but you show Him this. Reminding the judge that He is a kind and your sure a loving judge to his family and friends. So, that you remind the judge of His humanity, and go easier on you or even let you go.
The judge is a loving and kind man who loves His family, friends and he even cares about you in a way. But because he is the judge and because He does love all those others. He must place judgment upon you and sentences to death.
Now according to you, He should also place the judgment of death on himself, why? He didn't do the crime.

This also makes me question the state of heart of anyone who flippantly justifies their "literal eternal horror" doctrines, as being, without empathy, and not truly "loving their enemy": otherwise, they would also have empathy toward others in "eternal hell" and heaven could not exist for them since - through the empathy of love - they would be suffering with those that suffer.

Again, I believe you misunderstand just How God loves us.
He has a benevolent love toward us, as we live in our sins. How do I know? Because of His mercy and those who sin that are still alive and not in hell right now.
God's love is not unconditional. Jesus says if you love Him, you will have the love of the Father.
He says repent and place your trust in Him and you will have eternal life.
Those are conditions.

God hates sin, and he hates the soul of the wicked all the day long. And they will be punished for this. in Hell.

And again, we aren't talking "worst of the worst of humanity" alone; we are talking about basically good people, who were confused about religion, being judged to a horrific fate beyond imagination. At the hands of a loving/just/merciful God.

It's not beyond imagination. We sin against Him directly. We shake our puny hands at Him and say to Him we know better than Him on how we should live and that we are right.
The scripture tell us that the way of man seems right, but it is the way to death.
God is a loving God, a merciful God, but he is also righteous, Holy and Just.
and Eternal.

 

[John Hyperspace]

By what I know, hell is place where soul and body are destroyed. I don’t see how destroyed would feel or suffer eternally.

Try to understand that it's not about what the words are but how you understand those words. This is the big problem with the understanding going on in these erroneous doctrines; those people saying "Well, that's what the bible says..." then my reponse to you is this verse (among thousands):

John 6:53

Now, unless you have found the corpse of Jesus and ate the flesh? Drank the blood? Then I take it that you have no life in you? You are lost? Going to "burn forever" or "be erased from existence" since you have not eaten the flesh of Christ? Because, that's what the bible says... right there in black and white. You can read the words written there. Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

So how do you answer? Are now you going to turn and say "Well, that is what the bible says, but..."

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell…
Matt. 10:28-31

Those are certainly the words. So are these: Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

But if I understand that wrongly and people live in hell eternally and suffer, I believe the suffering comes from their own unrighteousness and I believe God’s judgment will be right.

And you'll still be of this same mind and judgment if you're burning in horror forever, along with all the rest of the sinners? Who understood wrongly?

I have not enough information to judge that imaginary person, who very possible doesn’t even exist

It's a hypothetical scenario. Are you not able to offer judgment on the matter? If I bring a man before you and say, this man was caught stealing women, and torturing them in his basement. Are you unable to judge the situation at all?

but I know this:

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

And do you also know this: Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

If a non-Christian does God’s will, he may be righteous and get the eternal life.

That's a belief; but in the thread I was asking for evaluation of a different belief, or, more specifically, teaching: that of eternal torture.

 

[John Hyperspace]

God hates sin, and he hates the soul of the wicked all the day long. And they will be punished for this. in Hell.

I presume that "the wicked" isn't you? Right? It's the other guy, but not you?

Let me ask, you who have wives: does your wife deserve to suffer eternal torture, if she is not believing correctly? I'd like to hear from you. I'm not asking you "What do you think the bible means?" I am asking you does your wife deserve to scream in horror for all of time if she is wrong about her beliefs?

 

[dqhall]

Try to understand that it's not about what the words are but how you understand those words. This is the big problem with the understanding going on in these erroneous doctrines; those people saying "Well, that's what the bible says..." then my reponse to you is this verse (among thousands):

John 6:53

Now, unless you have found the corpse of Jesus and ate the flesh? Drank the blood? Then I take it that you have no life in you? You are lost? Going to "burn forever" or "be erased from existence" since you have not eaten the flesh of Christ? Because, that's what the bible says... right there in black and white. You can read the words written there. Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

So how do you answer? Are now you going to turn and say "Well, that is what the bible says, but..."



Those are certainly the words. So are these: Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.



And you'll still be of this same mind and judgment if you're burning in horror forever, along with all the rest of the sinners? Who understood wrongly?



It's a hypothetical scenario. Are you not able to offer judgment on the matter? If I bring a man before you and say, this man was caught stealing women, and torturing them in his basement. Are you unable to judge the situation at all?



And do you also know this: Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.



That's a belief; but in the thread I was asking for evaluation of a different belief, or, more specifically, teaching: that of eternal torture.

Hell fire, torture, damnation and not allowed to sing "Amazing Grace." What a waste. People were believing in God because of the miracles Jesus was doing. Paul would not have believed he should risk his life preaching to both Jews and Gentiles, if God had not restored his sight.

Matthew 10:42 (ASV) "And whosoever shall give to drink unto one of these little ones a cup of cold water only, in the name of a disciple, verily I say unto you he shall in no wise lose his reward."

I am not sure whether or not I will go to heaven. I am sure I have not lost my reward for remembering and putting into action some of Jesus' teachings. Good works will be rewarded.

Attempts to establish eternal torture will die out.

 

[John Hyperspace]

Your theology is either right or wrong. Not whole or partial.
If it's right then you worship God in the manner in which we should. In Holiness, reverence, fear and love. Knowing that we shouldn't fear what man can do to us, but to the one who can send us to hell, we should fear.
But no one deserves heaven. Not one of us. We are sinners, we are born with it and we all have done so.
If your theology is right, you know God to be loving, caring, all knowing, all powerful, the creator, that he holds wrath against those who sin, and because He is just will judge them righteously and with true justice.
About belief. The question isn't how you believe or what you believe in. The question is "Is what you believe in to be true?" And that is what sound theology does for us. It teaches who God is. What the Word of God is. The trinity and such.

Ah, I see. So if your theology isn't perfectly right, it's eternal torture? Is that your judgment? Your measuring stick of judgement says, if a person isn't perfectly right in worship of God, then he deserves eternal torture? Am I understanding this correctly? This is your stick of measure?

He is love, but he is also just.

I definitely agree that God is just. Which is why I can say that "eternal torture" must then be a grave misunderstanding, and those who paint God as a monster that would do such a thing, then call that monster "just" are perfectly demonstrating that they neither know God, nor love, nor justice.

There is a big difference between "God is just and hates sin, so will chastize" and "God is just and hates sin, therefore is just and loving to eternally torture people": the first is truth, the second? Well, if it's not true, then it is serious blasphemy against God, since you can't do much more to malign someones name than, tell others they torture helpless people in their basement.

 

[John Hyperspace]

Also, this is clearly a "controversial" subject which can bring in a lot of "scary words" and such things. I just want everyone reading my words to understand that I have nothing but love in my heart for you, nothing I am saying in this thread is meant to be taken in any other way, but as a, topic which is unfortunately "controversial". I just wanted to make this absolutely clear should anyone think anything like "He doesn't feel I'm a brother (or, sister)": in fact, I do.

 

[Geralt]

everyone has his own opinion, but then again you should quote scripture and let us see if that is the case.

It teaches me that "hell" is a figurative use of language conveying the idea of the trials and tribulations men pass through on their way to becoming: the same as fire purges gold. A corrective process intended for the good of man, to his ultimate purification from error.

 

[Ken Behrens]

Yes, you're right. Scripture says "you will know them by their fruit" and you have already manifested good fruit to me in our first shared thread. And I am pleased to see that your fruit now, as it was then, is not like grandma's fruit basket on the table. Fruit which looked good until you tasted....plastic.


I agree/disagree....how's that for bipartisanship?

PHI 2:13 for God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

And it was God's WILL to work on Saul's will, to willingly accept Him, for the rest of Paul's life. Would you not agree?

Unfortunate choice of analogies Ken. As my spouse's chiropractor I'm usuallly 'the machine' also.

My grandma taught me to pick mulberries. I love them, get several quarts wild a year.

If you can be more specific, there may be some truth we can ferret out together.

Paul had accepted God. I think God just wanted him to know about the recent upgrade in Judaism. The knock down and vision was just to get through the wall Paul had put up to Jesus. Like a donkey: you have to hit him with a 2 by 4 just to get his attention, but after that, he'll do anything. (also said of some husbands by their wives, in case you do not like my first analogy).

Gee, how was I to know. I do hope she thanks you all the time.

Love talking with you.

 

[redblue22]

If God gives you the worst punishment for an accident outside your control, do you still believe God is being fair to you?

 

[Far Side Of the Moon]

There is only one God and he isn't lost. When he finds people they find him. I know lots of people who have a relationship with God apart from a particular religion.

He is in the bible his name is Jesus Christ and he said , there is only one way and he is the truth and the light ..you cant get to the father through no other way than through him. And Jesus himself taught about and on hell...its just one of those uncomfortable truths.
But it is what it is.

 

[smithed64]

I presume that "the wicked" isn't you? Right? It's the other guy, but not you?

Let me ask, you who have wives: does your wife deserve to suffer eternal torture, if she is not believing correctly? I'd like to hear from you. I'm not asking you "What do you think the bible means?" I am asking you does your wife deserve to scream in horror for all of time if she is wrong about her beliefs?

I am Born Again. So my soul isn't wicked. But i do make mistakes and I have sinned, but because I have an Advocate with the Father, and that The righteousness of Christ has been imputed upon me, God sees me as His Son. And forgives me for the sin.

The difference between someone being Born Again sinning and a unbeliever sinning is that a christian doesn't do it on purpose, or continually. We know right away, and listen to our conscience which God placed the law on our hearts to remind us not to break those laws. But when we do, and we do. We know right away to go to God in prayer, repent and never do it again.
unbelievers, they dive into sin, they wallow in it. The live their sinful life and rejoice in their sins. They don't want to serve God, and they know they sin. Because we all know the law. We all have had the law placed on our hearts. We all have a conscience which means con=with and science=knowledge.

Im not married. But to answer that question. If we were to get what we justly deserve from God. We'd all go to Hell.

That's the miracle of God's love toward us. That undeserved grace that God has given to us through Christ crucified. We don't have to go to Hell. We have the choice.

 

[John Hyperspace]

everyone has his own opinion, but then again you should quote scripture and let us see if that is the case.

Surely. I posted as concise an understanding as possible. To actually write out everything in respect to this question would necessitate novel-length replies. Though, I will do so, but beginning small to get agreement in the small things first.

First I would cite: Matthew 13:34

Would you agree then, that all of the words of Jesus were to the people "in parables"?

Secondly: John 6:63, 1 Corinthians 2:14

Would you agree that the words of Jesus are "spirit"? And that the "things of God" are "spiritually discerned"?

Thirdly: John 1:1, John 1:14

Would you agree that Jesus is "the Word made flesh"? And thereby perfectly expresses the nature of the Word to speak to the people "in parables"?

 

[redblue22]

I believe all the right things and do good. But I wake in hell forever. I ask why I am here, and I am told it is because I went to the wrong church each sunday morning. Given this new perspective, do I still believe I deserve hell forever just for going to the wrong church?

 

[Colter]

He is in the bible his name is Jesus Christ and he said , there is only one way and he is the truth and the light ..you cant get to the father through no other way than through him. And Jesus himself taught about and on hell...its just one of those uncomfortable truths.
But it is what it is.

Jesus didn't teach anyone about Hell as that is understood today by extremist.

Jesus did say he is the way, he has always been the way. God the Son is the way to God the Father. Anyone who earth who seeks and finds God finds them both.

..."its just one of those uncomfortable truths" that the new "chosen people" don't want to hear.

 

[smithed64]

Ah, I see. So if your theology isn't perfectly right, it's eternal torture? Is that your judgment? Your measuring stick of judgement says, if a person isn't perfectly right in worship of God, then he deserves eternal torture? Am I understanding this correctly? This is your stick of measure?

No, you are showing just how much you don't understand. It's not your theology or lack of. That sends you to Hell. It's the sin in a person life that sends them to Hell.
Theology is just a method of studying God. And you can do that on your own.

I definitely agree that God is just. Which is why I can say that "eternal torture" must then be a grave misunderstanding, and those who paint God as a monster that would do such a thing, then call that monster "just" are perfectly demonstrating that they neither know God, nor love, nor justice.

Nope no misunderstanding. God himself says

Revelation 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

It's the truth of His Word. Sin is what takes us to hell.

Proverbs 5:22 His own iniquities shall take the wicked himself, and he shall be holden with the cords of his sins.

There is a big difference between "God is just and hates sin, so will chastize" and "God is just and hates sin, therefore is just and loving to eternally torture people": the first is truth, the second? Well, if it's not true, then it is serious blasphemy against God, since you can't do much more to malign someones name than, tell others they torture helpless people in their basement.[/QUOTE]

The thing is...It's true. God will judge and punish, eternally those that stand before Him unrepentant and transgressed His Laws.

Here's the greatest news of all though. It doesn't have to end up that way. What did God do so that we didn't go to Hell? He came down in the form of a man, Name The Christ, Jesus, He lived a perfect sinless life and went through the things that we go thru. He knows what we go through, what we need and all things.
What did Christ do to show us that love the God has for us, so that we not face Him in wrath?
He died on the cross, he substituted Himself for us. So that we would not have to suffer God's wrath. He took our sins and nailed them to the cross. He paid the fine for our sins. So that we could have eternal life with Him and the Father.

Here's what a great man of God said once about theology.

"You will find all true theology summed up in these two sort sentences -

Salvation is all of the Grace of God.
Damnation is all of the will fo Man."

Spurgeon

 

[smithed64]

I believe all the right things and do good. But I wake in hell forever. I ask why I am here, and I am told it is because I went to the wrong church each sunday morning. Given this new perspective, do I still believe I deserve hell forever just for going to the wrong church?

If you wake up in hell, it won't be because you went to the wrong church.It will because you didn't repent and place your trust in Jesus.

You say you do good. Do you think your good enough to get to heaven?
Have you lied?If you have your a liar. Have you stolen anything, no matter what the value or whom from? Then you'd be a thief. Have you murdered anyone? The bible tells us that if a man hate his brother he is a murderer at heart and has no eternal life in him at all. Have you lusted after the opposite sex or even the same sex? Jesus tells us "thou knowest from the days of old, 'thou shalt not commit adultery', but I say unto you any man that looks at a woman with lust has commited adultery in his heart already." You see, God not only sees what we do, He also knows our intentions.

If you said yes to any of these, being honest and reasonable with yourself. Then you've broke God's commandments. This is only four of them. The word tells us that if we broke just one, we've broke them all.

No liar, thief, murder or adulterer will make into Heaven. Not one.

 

[redblue22]

that has nothing to do with what I said. if you cannot hear what other people say, why should I listen to you?

 

[John Hyperspace]

I am Born Again. So my soul isn't wicked.

But this is based upon your own belief, true? Which may or may not be correct (even though I'm sure you're of the mind that you are saved, and doing things "rightly"). In fact, there are many Christian denominations (Church of Christ being one of them) who would say, you have deceived yourself. You are wicked, and not worshipping rightly. You have willingly persisted in rebellion against God because you do not understand the bible as they do. Therefore, brother, you are going straight into hell along with every other "willingly ignorance sinner who persisted in continual sin"; and moreover, that God is just, and good for doing this to you. You see, love cannot ignore justice. That is why you are going to burn in horror forever.

Now, again, do you find this "just" and "good"? If this happens to you, as they adamantly teach it will, do you think you deserve this fate? I will stand here and say, there is no way you deserve a fate such as that. Would you? I'm not asking you to say "I think the bible says that the wicked go to hell to suffer forever, and so if I'm wrong I deserve that fate" I'm asking you, if you think you deserve this fate? That it would be just and good to torture you for all of time? Not "I deserve to be tortured forever, but thankfully Christ has saved me from that" but "I deserve to be tortured forever"?

But i do make mistakes and I have sinned, but because I have an Advocate with the Father, and that The righteousness of Christ has been imputed upon me, God sees me as His Son. And forgives me for the sin.

At least, you believe that. According to the Church of Christ, you're wrong. Dead wrong. So if they are right, and you are in theological error, and all of your faith has been one big lie - do you deserve eternal torture? If God says, "The fact is, you have misunderstood the bible, and have worshipped Me in a way I did not wish; but your judgment is in your own hands right now" would you reply "I deserve eternal horror"?

The difference between someone being Born Again sinning and a unbeliever sinning is that a christian doesn't do it on purpose, or continually.

I'm sorry, you don't sin "on purpose"? Then why are you sinning? As opposed to the "sinners" who do it "on purpose"?

We know right away, and listen to our conscience which God placed the law on our hearts to remind us not to break those laws. But when we do, and we do. We know right away to go to God in prayer, repent and never do it again.

So, do you no longer sin? Is that the claim? Do you realize that someone who steals one time, is guilty of, idolatry? Adultery? False witness? Coveting. Murder? James 2:10?

unbelievers, they dive into sin, they wallow in it. The live their sinful life and rejoice in their sins. They don't want to serve God, and they know they sin. Because we all know the law. We all have had the law placed on our hearts. We all have a conscience which means con=with and science=knowledge.

Or maybe they don't "do it on purpose"? Maybe they just, don't believe your understanding is true? Why should they? Or, in your eyes, are all "sinners" out there, tweaking their moustaches and saying "I just love to steal and murder? I'm so evil! Full power to the DEATH RAY!"

Im not married. But to answer that question. If we were to get what we justly deserve from God. We'd all go to Hell.

If a man says to you, my five-year-old said "No!" to me today, so I'm going to put cigarettes out on his entire body, would you nod and say "It's what he deserves; it's what we all deserve"? Or, would you call the police and report him?

That's the miracle of God's love toward us. That undeserved grace that God has given to us through Christ crucified. We don't have to go to Hell. We have the choice.

But of course. Everyone has the choice to understand what the bible says, just like you understand it, right? But all those people that aren't understanding it like you - well, they're doing it on purpose, and they'll get what they deserve: eternal torture? Again, I ask in all seriousness: is this the measuring stick of your judgment, really? Because I'll call into remembrance the words of Jesus: Matthew 7:2

Are you really going to use that measuring stick? You're certain you want to use that measuring stick?