Is God a liar?

[Open Heart]

On day 4 in Genesis "TWO lights" are created. not a zillion-and-two.

That is not correct. On day four, two great lights (sun and moon) PLUS the stars are created. It's quite explicit.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

... oops

 

[Open Heart]

Actually it doesn't say that at all. Until the earth was formed, no lights from the stars could shine on the earth. Not the Sun or the Stars. I posted the scriptures above, showing that this was all about God creating the Seasons. Genesis 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

You are thinking inside a box. God doesn't think the way we do. Stars are still being created ARE THEY NOT ? So God was going to create stars, God created stars 13 billion years ago, 6 billion years ago and is still creating stars today, the Universe is of course expanding. So was God creating stars 4.5 billion years ago ? YES. And 13 billion years ago.

The very first day, looks just like the WMAP/NASA Map. There was Darkness (Evening) then Light(morning) stars were created after 400 million years, it lasted, imho, 9 billion years. Then came the Second Day. 4.5 billion BC to about 900 million years BC.

You can't mix historical/scientific reality with the Genesis 1 account. In reality, stars were created billions of years before the earth was created, since our earth is created out of material from stars going supernova, and stars are still being created to this very day.

My point is that in the Genesis 1 account you have LIGHT on day one, and you cannot have LIGHT without STARS. The problem is that in the Genesis 1 account, starts weren't created until day four. It proves that Genesis 1 can't co-exist with historical/scientific reality.

Genesis 1 is in the Bible to teach an underlying deep truth: that God created, that all things come from Him. It doesn't matter how or when.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

and you cannot have LIGHT without STARS.

Never read Revelation ?
WHO IS the LIGHT ? (hint: NOT stars) (not even sun nor moon nor electricity)

 

[Open Heart]

Never read Revelation ?
WHO IS the LIGHT ? (hint: NOT stars) (not even sun nor moon nor electricity)

Revelation is about a VISION. It is filled with SYMBOLS. I'm sure you know what symbols are. Revelation has no bearing on this discussion.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Revelation is about a VISION. It is filled with SYMBOLS. I'm sure you know what symbols are. Revelation has no bearing on this discussion.

Just because you don't know IN THE BOOK OF REVELATION WHO THE LIGHT IS,
doesn't mean
HE has no bearing on this discussion.

You stated totally incorrectly that without the stars there is no light.
According to
and in Harmony with ALL Scripture, JESUS IS LIGHT. (real, true, spiritual, etc). He made the stars in ONE DAY. He doesn't need them for light in the world to come in Jerusalem in the Temple. HE IS THE LIGHT.

 

[Open Heart]

Just because you don't know IN THE BOOK OF REVELATION WHO THE LIGHT IS,
doesn't mean
HE has no bearing on this discussion.

You stated totally incorrectly that without the stars there is no light.
According to
and in Harmony with ALL Scripture, JESUS IS LIGHT. (real, true, spiritual, etc). He made the stars in ONE DAY. He doesn't need them for light in the world to come in Jerusalem in the Temple. HE IS THE LIGHT.

If you give me a verse from Revelation, I'm happy to comment on who that light represents, although such a conversation doesn't belong in THIS thread.

When we say that Jesus is the light, we are speaking figuratively, not literally. We are saying that God illuminates the truth LIKE light illuminates objects.

Light in the universe is waves/photons. The first light in the universe came from nuclear reactions taking place in STARS. You can't have physical light at the beginning of the universe without stars. There would be no other source of photons. Jesus is not photons.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

You are allowed to speak literally, figuratively, speculatively or any which way you like.

Nothing you say though will change the Truth of Scripture.

 

[Revealing Times]

My point is that in the Genesis 1 account you have LIGHT on day one, and you cannot have LIGHT without STARS. The problem is that in the Genesis 1 account, starts weren't created until day four. It proves that Genesis 1 can't co-exist with historical/scientific reality.

You must have missed my BIGGEST POINT. The first day "yom" (period of time) was 9.2 billion years. Like I stated, 4 times, the very first light is the Stars, and Genesis says as much, you are just not hearing it. I am going to do this ONE MORE TIME !! Then I am finished trying to explain what seems obvious.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. { All matter was created in the Beginning, even the matter that eventually formed the earth. THIS IS TRUE. God spoke all matter into existence. It happened in the Beginning. }

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. { The earth was not formed, it was VOID, not anywhere in space.....And Darkness was on the face of the Deep, the Dark Ages as shown on the WMAP/NASA Map, clearly shows that the Dark Ages lasted 400 million years...So far God has it perfectly correct, you are just assuming this Darkness and the Light in the next verse is the Sun and Earth that God is speaking of, IT IS NOT...God is speaking abut the BEGINNING, Where it all started. There was 400 million years of Dark Ages, then God said "Let there be light" and the Stars were created at 400 million years. (Actually God commanded all things at once, but they came in sequences)

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. { STARS HERE, NOT THE SUN per se. Why assume the Sun ? }

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. { Darkness and light are always divided. But in this case I think it means the darkness came first and lasted 400 million years, then came the light or stars. }

The evening came first, it lasted 400 million years, then the morning, and it lasted what.......8.8 Billion years, for a total of 9.2 Billion years for the First Day.

Then at 4.5 Billion years ago this happens........Gen. 1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

The Earth came after the Stars or THE LIGHT you just assume the Light was the Sun, but that just isn't the case.

You got to let it go brother, if it doesn't fit you must quit. (OJ Pun.)

 

[Open Heart]

You are allowed to speak literally, figuratively, speculatively or any which way you like.

Nothing you say though will change the Truth of Scripture.

We are supposed to read Scripture the way it is meant to be read FIRST, or else we will twist it into meaning things it does not mean.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

We are supposed to read Scripture the way it is meant to be read FIRST, or else we will twist it into meaning things it does not mean.

GOOD .
IF God permits,
we will have time to seek God, likely to take months at least,
to go through Scripture FIRST, instead of man's traditions that oppose Scripture, (that for some reason you keep bringing up and using as reference or reason),
and
find a way to be set free from all the lies that are imposed on men everywhere by religious leaders in almost every (perhaps every?) group.
God's Purpose, Plan and Grace in Jesus is overwhelmingly to set us free from the devil and man's oppression, free from sin and from all the consequences of sin,
to be free to worship God in Spirit and in Truth. (utterly free of man's traditions and the devil and sin)

 

[Open Heart]

Like I stated, 4 times, the very first light is the Stars

And I keep telling you, and will say it every time you repeat yourself, that the stars weren't created until day four. Made means created. " He also made the stars." Genesis 1:16

 

[Lulav]

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[Hieronymus]

Amen?

No, sorry...

 

[Hieronymus]

Never read Revelation ?
WHO IS the LIGHT ? (hint: NOT stars) (not even sun nor moon nor electricity)

In Genesis 1 "Let there be light." can hardly refer to God, for God didn't speak Himself into existence.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

In Genesis 1 "Let there be light." can hardly refer to God, for God didn't speak Himself into existence.

Very Good So Far.
After Genesis 1, there's 2, 3, 4, .......
then some other books following.
How many times is the Messiah called LIGHT, a LIGHT, or the LIGHT of the world?
Maybe going through Scripture we will find out .....

 

[Hieronymus]

Very Good So Far.
After Genesis 1, there's 2, 3, 4, .......
then some other books following.
How many times is the Messiah called LIGHT, a LIGHT, or the LIGHT of the world?
Maybe going through Scripture we will find out .....

Many times God is referred to as Light.
I thought you were referring to the light in Genesis 1:3.
God spoke the light in Genesis 1:3 into existence, this is creation.
God didn't create Himself in Genesis 1:3 would be my point.

 

[BobRyan]

All the scientific evidence points to an ancient earth. Furthermore, the fossil records support the slow change of species over time, such as dinosaurs to birds. *IF* these things are not true, it would follow that God deliberately created a world with false scientific data. Right? So then this begs the questions...

Did God lie?
And if God lied, why?

What do you believe?

The author's own answer to her own question seems to be ...

. Let's face it. Genesis 1 is simply not compatible with what we know from science.

I prefer the Bible to atheism and the junk-science religion of evolutionism.

More facts - less evolutionism please.

 

[BobRyan]

There is no if. By definition, God is NOT a liar.

True ...

. Let's face it. Genesis 1 is simply not compatible with what we know from science.

False.

 

[BobRyan]

And I keep telling you, and will say it every time you repeat yourself, that the stars weren't created until day four. Made means created. " He also made the stars." Genesis 1:16

"also made" does not include the stars in the "TWO" Lights made on day 4.,

The point remains. Only Two lights made on day 4.