Is God a liar?

[Open Heart]

Rodhocetus
Rodhocetus was claimed to be an aquatic animal that was developing front flippers and a whale-like tail with flukes (horizontal fins)—i.e. supposedly well on the way to becoming a whale. However, when Dr Werner pointed out to the paleontologist who discovered Rodhocetus, Dr Gingerich, that there was no fossil skeletal evidence for a tail or flippers,

The reason why Rodhocetus is depicted as having webbed feet is because preceding transitional forms have theses features. The chart I provided does not depict either a tail or flippers.


Even without the traits you have objected to, the sequence of fossils STILL depicts a gradual evolution of whales. Next.

 

[Open Heart]

I just got around it in my large post on the Creation being 14.7 Billion years divided into 6 Days or "yom" (Periods of time) There was Inflation, followed by the Dark Ages, followed by Stars which came about 400 Million years later, hence the first day was EVENING (Darkness) and the Morning (Light) Thus the first day was the Creation of the Universe, up until the time the Earth came into being. Thus............Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.... The earth had no form, and was void Means What ? It means the earth was still only matter, traveling through space. Void means 1. completely empty, 2. completely empty space, so there was no earth in the beginning, only the matter that was to become the earth, was in existence, and GOD CREATED IT, and the earth was created, just not yet formed, it was void, and without form. God is 100 percent correct, always. The Darkness was on face of the deep is God speaking of the first 400 million years of the Dark Ages, followed by the stars being created. An Earth Day is never even used in the Creation account.

In order for there to be light on the first day, there had to be stars. Yet in the Genesis 1 creation account, stars were not created until the fourth day. Let's face it. Genesis 1 is simply not compatible with what we know from science.

 

[Revealing Times]

In order for there to be light on the first day, there had to be stars. Yet in the Genesis 1 creation account, stars were not created until the fourth day. Let's face it. Genesis 1 is simply not compatible with what we know from science.

You need to go read my very first post on here. God called a day a "yom" which can mean a period of time. The first "DAY" or YOM lasted for 9.2 billion years, from 14.7 billion BC until 4.5 billion years BC.

It was the Earth's Seasons that were created on the fourth day, and stars ruled the night, not were created, but the lights from the heavens had to reach the earth....Genesis 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: (Let the lights of the Stars reach the Earth, let it be for signs and for SEASONS, for DAYS and for YEARS.....This was all about the Seasons, days and years in earth time being set forth.

15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

Actually God is telling the Creation story in proper order. We just can't think that deep. God is not saying per se he created every star on the fourth day, just that by the time the earth formed, he had made the light of the stars reach earth.

 

[Open Heart]

I just got around it in my large post on the Creation being 14.7 Billion years divided into 6 Days or "yom" (Periods of time) There was Inflation, followed by the Dark Ages, followed by Stars which came about 400 Million years later, hence the first day was EVENING (Darkness) and the Morning (Light)

How does this get around it? Scripture says the stars were created on day 4, not day 1.

 

[Open Heart]

16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

It seems perfectly clear to me. This is the fourth day, not the first.

 

[Hieronymus]

the earth was not around until 4.5 Billion years B.C.

Why would you believe naturalistic guesstimates?

so why would the very first "day" of creation, be based off an earth rotation ?

It's the other way around.
The earth's rotation is based on God dividing the days.

Hello Brother, I put a lot of thought into this, and research, for God's edification. WATCH THIS.....The evening ends a day, and the morning brings forth a day or new beginning. Why was the evening first ?

You'll have to ask God.
But it's still the Jewish days that start at sundown, the sabbath starts on friday evening.
Even Genesis 1 starts in the dark.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

For six thousand years, almost or thereabouts.
Men knew something that was true.
Then satan changed it.
And there was a lot of money to be made,
and power to change people away from trusting God and from believing in Him.
Satan had no trouble at all finding a lot of professionals to go along with him.
Even most church attenders for the last few hundred years got completely tricked.

What did someone once say
about
"the blind leading the blind" and both fall into the ditch ?

 

[Hieronymus]

It was one mans opinion, was it not ? The light from the stars could not be shinning on earth if we were created 6000 years ago. I don't even really give serious thought to a young earth.

All because of naturalistic models?
Don't get me wrong though, the speed of light indeed does strongly suggest the universe must be very old.
But when God puts lights in the sky, why would He be unable to have them be visible immediately?

It is afterall God's Creation.
The Big Bang is a naturalistic model with enough problems of its own.

 

[SkyWriting]

So then micro evolution "change" - but not "macro evolution" ever.
Indeed observing them over 50,000 generation has proven the point beyond question.

Evolution only occurs under stressed conditions. Any natural variation is limited in scope. The only way to test for limited evolution is to run every possible combination of environmental stresses, for ever. And that's still not considered "proof" because you can't be sure you did the test right because the test didn't occur at the same time.

 

[BobRyan]

Evolution only occurs under stressed conditions.

hmm --- you mean it only occurs when it can never be observed as fact??

amazing!

In the every twisty-winding shell-game of blind faith evolutionism - actual "observations in nature" showing that macro evolutionism does not happen not even over TEN TIMES the number of generations supposedly needed to make mankind - every detail must be bent around so that the end result is always the same "you can't observe it... don't expect to see it in real life".

By 'no stress' does one mean "that is why only some of the bacteria turned into amoeba over 50,000 generations instead of all of them"? No... because "that did not happen".

By "no stress" does that mean "That is why all of the primates had to be killed off -- so the goddess evolutionism could create humans"? No... because "That did not happen".

When one's religion and junk-science is nothing more than 'shell game' - there must always be a con, always a "story" for "why" the test does not demonstrate evolution.

"Stories easy enough to tell - but they are not science for there is no way of putting them to the test" --- from one of their OWN

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

It seems perfectly clear to me. This is the fourth day, not the first.

Until you read the actual Bible. And we see that "SIX DAYS you shall labor...for IN SIX days the LORD created the heavens and the earth - and rested the 7th day"

This is irrefutable - and the failed attempts to marry the Bible to evolutionism do not survive this "Bible detail"

Gen 2 -
Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts. 2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

Ex 20 - legal code (not poetry - not symbolism)
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

this is a bible detail that cannot be ignored when admitting that the Bible describes a real - literal "six days you shall labor...for in six days the Lord made" 7 day week for creation that maps exactly to the week of Exodus 20.

Irrefutable.

 

[BobRyan]

In order for there to be light on the first day, there had to be stars. Yet in the Genesis 1 creation account, stars were not created until the fourth day.

That is not true either.

On day 4 in Genesis "TWO lights" are created. not a zillion-and-two.

The narrative points out that God is also the creator of the stars - but is very clear that on day 4 only two lights are created.

14 Then God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years; 15 and let them be for lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth”; and it was so. 16 God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day, and the lesser light to govern the night; He made the stars also. 17 God placed them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18 and to govern the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness; and God saw that it was good. 19 There was evening and there was morning, a fourth day.


Bible details matter.

 

[Revealing Times]

How does this get around it? Scripture says the stars were created on day 4, not day 1.
googletag.cmd.push(function() { googletag.display('div-gpt-ad-1445020441508-1'); });

Actually it doesn't say that at all. Until the earth was formed, no lights from the stars could shine on the earth. Not the Sun or the Stars. I posted the scriptures above, showing that this was all about God creating the Seasons. Genesis 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

You are thinking inside a box. God doesn't think the way we do. Stars are still being created ARE THEY NOT ? So God was going to create stars, God created stars 13 billion years ago, 6 billion years ago and is still creating stars today, the Universe is of course expanding. So was God creating stars 4.5 billion years ago ? YES. And 13 billion years ago.

The very first day, looks just like the WMAP/NASA Map. There was Darkness (Evening) then Light(morning) stars were created after 400 million years, it lasted, imho, 9 billion years. Then came the Second Day. 4.5 billion BC to about 900 million years BC.

The Dark ages lasted basically 400 million years....Gen.1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters...... 3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

(Perfect order, there was Darkness on the face of the Deep (Dark Ages) THEN....God says let there be Light and the stars came into being starting at the 400 million year mark. (400 million years from the Creation point/Big Bang)

Second Day....Genesis 1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

( So God divided the waters on earth and the waters we get rain by, with the Sky/Air/Oxygen. And this was the Second Day. Now the Grasses and herbs can come forth etc. etc. etc, )

 

[Revealing Times]

Why would you believe naturalistic guesstimates?

My guesstimates might be off if theirs is, but the point of my theory is it matches more with Genesis, I used a WMAP/NASA program and Genesis and meshed them together, It could be a 10 billion First Day......

It's the other way around.
The earth's rotation is based on God dividing the days.

But there is no time in God's realm, this is why He needs not to have been created. We on the other hand live in a cause and effect universe, where time is relative, we therefore then had to have a beginning/be created.

You'll have to ask God.
But it's still the Jewish days that start at sundown, the sabbath starts on friday evening.
Even Genesis 1 starts in the dark.

My WMAP/NASA Map shows the Dark Ages came first. That is why the Evening and the morning.

All because of naturalistic models?
Don't get me wrong though, the speed of light indeed does strongly suggest the universe must be very old.
But when God puts lights in the sky, why would He be unable to have them be visible immediately?

It is afterall God's Creation.
The Big Bang is a naturalistic model with enough problems of its own.

The Big Bang actually attests to God creating the universe. 50-150 years ago scientist were all saying the earth is eternal, and need not have ever had a beginning, the Big Bang actually proved the opposite. Now Scientist have come up with a solution to where the universe/man came from (this being a cause and effect universe they felt obliged) and so they have discovered "Quantum Fluctuations" and say that we can get something from nothing, as long as we have a "Set of forces" or "Laws of Nature" in place. They call this Quantum Fluctuations (see the WMAP/NASA Map above, at the very beginning) but there is something staring them right in the face, and they can't see it...........LOL. WATCH THIS.

Set of Forces/Laws of Nature (Quantum Fluctuations) as described below.

1) Not Physical
2) Acts on the Physical
3) Created the Physical from Nothing
4) Predates the Universe

Guess what....who does this Describe to a tee ? That is right, the Biblical God of the bible. He is a Spirit (Not physical), He acted on the physical (He created the universe), He created the universe from nothing (Let there be light), and He predates the universe (God is eternal, many verses in the bible says so, and many more verses speak about BEFORE ALL TIME) the very first verse in Gen. 1 says In the BEGINNING, God Created...............

They set all of these parameters for that which made the universe come from nothing, and they couldn't even see, it was the very description of the Biblical God !!! Amen.....

 

[Hieronymus]

My guesstimates might be off if theirs is, but the point of my theory is it matches more with Genesis, I used a WMAP/NASA program and Genesis and meshed them together, It could be a 10 billion First Day......

What's the relevance of naturalistic models for Genesis anyway?

But there is no time in God's realm,

Genesis is about Creation of our realm.

this is why He needs not to have been created.

Of course.

We on the other hand live in a cause and effect universe, where time is relative,

That's debatable because of cause and effect.

 

[Hieronymus]

That is not true either.

On day 4 in Genesis "TWO lights" are created. not a zillion-and-two.

"He created the stars also."

 

[Hieronymus]

Evolution only occurs under stressed conditions.

That would be micro-evolution.

 

[Aman777]

God's Seven Days...Scripturally

Day 1- God creates air, dust and water comes from the air/heaven Gen 1:1
Jesus/YHWH comes into the physical world Gen 1:3
Day 2- Adam's firmament/Heaven is made Gen 1:8
Day 3- Jesus (Lord God) makes other Heavens Gen 2:4 and Adam Gen 2:7
Day 4- The first Stars of our Cosmos light up Gen 1:16
Day 5- God creates "every living creature" from water Gen 1:21
Day 6- Jesus makes Eve Gen 3:22 Adam and Eve are "created in God's Image" or born again Spiritually in Christ Gen 1:27 and Gen 5:1-2

This brings us up to the present time since God is STILL creating Adam (mankind) in God's Image TODAY Gen 1:27

At the end of the present 6th Day Adam (mankind) will be given dominion over viruses, mosquitoes, and EVERY living creature Gen 1:28 and EVERY creature is changed into a Vegetarian Gen 1:30 THEN and only then, God will say it is very good and the 6th Day (period of time) ends and God rests (Heb-Sabbath-Ceases) from ALL of His creating. Gen 2:1-3 That is God's Literal Truth, Scripturally. Amen?

 

[Open Heart]

Why would you believe naturalistic guesstimates?

You call an estimate based on evidence a guess? Really?

 

[Open Heart]

Until you read the actual Bible. And we see that "SIX DAYS you shall labor...for IN SIX days the LORD created the heavens and the earth - and rested the 7th day"

Please stay on topic. I think deliberately changing topics breaks the rules.