baberean2,
1. Are you telling me that you don't believe there will be a theocracy with the physical jewish nation at the head of the nations?
2. Are you telling me that you don't believe that the Jewish David will not be the physical King of Israel in the physical KOH reign on earth?
3. Are you telling me that the jewish apostles that were disciples of the jewish Jesus will not reign over the physical jewish tribes of physical jewish land of the house of Israel in the KOH reign on earth that God promised them through the Abrahamic covenant who was the father of the Jewish nation?
4. Are you telling me that the physical nation will be on earth but not fulfilling the head of the nations in the restoration of all things through the Davidic covenant?
5. What is the purpose for the jewish nation of being in these positions if it is not to fulfill their covenants because of coming back to Christ and Christ writing the laws on their hearts and they becoming his people forever etc. You can't overcome this and you keep sidetracking the issue.
6. No one denies that there is one fold today or in the KOH reign on earth concerning those that are saved! Answer to this and quit bouncing around the fact because of your faulty theory.
7. You are trying to fool people into thinking that the bible shows that because the new covenant was made at Calvary Jeremiah's prophecy was completely fulfilled. With that thinking then we would have to believe that the Day of Pentecost was a full fulfillment of Joel's prophecy of speaking in tongues etc. Peter talked about the restoration of all things but he didn't say it was fixing to happen. You make out he did because you think he preached the KOH was at hand in a round about way because you believe because the early church was jewish and they were presented the KOH message as a second chance to accept God. That is not scriptural but it is your opinion. Christ said it wasn't for them to know the times and seasons about the KOH and Peter just knew that these things of tongues etc were signs of the KOH at hand.
8. This is your whole blunder of believing that the jews have had their chances at the head of the nations and they blew it and have no chances, no get out of jail card.
9. The covenants of Abraham and David for the jewish nation that are not for the church of today concerning the roles specific to the government on earth that is political concerning the rule on earth out of Jerusalem is scriptural fact.
10. You are saying that Christ is wrong in choosing Israel in the role of heading the theocracy because of the spiritual aspect that saves jew and gentiles both. Why does it bother you so bad that the physical nation will come back to God and fulfill their covenants in the roles of the earthly theocracy with Christ?
11. All you can do is disagree and say that that is not what the scripture says and build up this false scenario that salvation for all men today prevents their role being different in the kingdom than the church itself in the KOH reign. You have not and cannot prove that the church of the jew and gentiles will be at the head of the nation for they were never promised that. All you can say to prove that is their is one fold. Their is one fold spiritually but the church is a microorganism that includes both parties of the whole world in a different program that is different than the physical nation of Israel.
12. You will have a different role than I in the earthly governmental theocracy, does that make any difference to anything because we are both saved? Wake up and have some common sense to logic.
13. A jew can have a different role just like you and be saved just like you but are you going to cry wolf because he has a greater or different role than you and vice versa?
The only reason the bloodline matters at all is because God promised them specifically the land and the kingdom in light of gentiles being blessed and flowing out from them according to Zechariah and the land according to Abraham and the kingdom of the house of Israel and Judah where the sceptre will come from when Shiloh comes.
14. Salvation has nothing to do with the blood line because God has never been a respector of persons before, during, and after Calvary. The middle wall of partition being torn down is because gentiles never had the specific covenant in a theocracy with God etc. They could only be drawn by the light of the jews and come into judaism or know God according to their conscience.
15. You are not taking all contexts into consideration and skating the truth with other scriptures and then building up scenarios that are straw men and may only have partial truths or none at all. Give up and give into the truth. Jerry Kelso
My comments are in Bold Blue Text.
1. Are you telling me that you don't believe there will be a theocracy with the physical jewish nation at the head of the nations?
Jesus Christ will be the head of the nations, not a nation based on bloodline.
2. Are you telling me that you don't believe that the Jewish David will not be the physical King of Israel in the physical KOH reign on earth?
He will be there along with us bowing his knee to the Savior of the world.
3. Are you telling me that the jewish apostles that were disciples of the jewish Jesus will not reign over the physical jewish tribes of physical jewish land of the house of Israel in the KOH reign on earth that God promised them through the Abrahamic covenant who was the father of the Jewish nation?
There will be no difference between the Jews and Gentiles. God is not a respecter of persons.
4. Are you telling me that the physical nation will be on earth but not fulfilling the head of the nations in the restoration of all things through the Davidic covenant?
No. This rotten sin-cursed world is going to be burned up and dissolved just as it is written in 2 Peter 3:10, at the Second Coming of Christ.
5. What is the purpose for the jewish nation of being in these positions if it is not to fulfill their covenants because of coming back to Christ and Christ writing the laws on their hearts and they becoming his people forever etc. You can't overcome this and you keep sidetracking the issue.
It is the indwelling of the Holy Ghost inside of us that writes God's law inside of us in our hearts.
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2Co_3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
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6. No one denies that there is one fold today or in the KOH reign on earth concerning those that are saved! Answer to this and quit bouncing around the fact because of your faulty theory.
You have already been shown that the kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of God are the same.
7. You are trying to fool people into thinking that the bible shows that because the new covenant was made at Calvary Jeremiah's prophecy was completely fulfilled. With that thinking then we would have to believe that the Day of Pentecost was a full fulfillment of Joel's prophecy of speaking in tongues etc. Peter talked about the restoration of all things but he didn't say it was fixing to happen. You make out he did because you think he preached the KOH was at hand in a round about way because you believe because the early church was jewish and they were presented the KOH message as a second chance to accept God. That is not scriptural but it is your opinion. Christ said it wasn't for them to know the times and seasons about the KOH and Peter just knew that these things of tongues etc were signs of the KOH at hand.
When Jesus said on the Cross... "It is finished.", I believe what He said.
8. This is your whole blunder of believing that the jews have had their chances at the head of the nations and they blew it and have no chances, no get out of jail card.
They have the same "get out of jail card" that the rest of us have. God is not a respecter of persons.
If I had a Jewish grandmother, my path to salvation would be the same as any Gentile.
9. The covenants of Abraham and David for the jewish nation that are not for the church of today concerning the roles specific to the government on earth that is political concerning the rule on earth out of Jerusalem is scriptural fact.
Paul says the opposite in Galatians 3:16, 29.
10. You are saying that Christ is wrong in choosing Israel in the role of heading the theocracy because of the spiritual aspect that saves jew and gentiles both. Why does it bother you so bad that the physical nation will come back to God and fulfill their covenants in the roles of the earthly theocracy with Christ?
It is my hope and prayer that the whole nation will be grafted back into the Olive Tree, just like the Jewish Christians that I know. There is no other plan.
11. All you can do is disagree and say that that is not what the scripture says and build up this false scenario that salvation for all men today prevents their role being different in the kingdom than the church itself in the KOH reign. You have not and cannot prove that the church of the jew and gentiles will be at the head of the nation for they were never promised that. All you can say to prove that is their is one fold. Their is one fold spiritually but the church is a microorganism that includes both parties of the whole world in a different program that is different than the physical nation of Israel.
I will say it again. The ultimate fulfillment of God's Plan of salvation is Jesus Christ, not the nation of Israel.
12. You will have a different role than I in the earthly governmental theocracy, does that make any difference to anything because we are both saved? Wake up and have some common sense to logic.
My role will be the same as yours and that is to bow down and worship the Lamb of God, who bought us with His Blood.
13. A jew can have a different role just like you and be saved just like you but are you going to cry wolf because he has a greater or different role than you and vice versa?
The only reason the bloodline matters at all is because God promised them specifically the land and the kingdom in light of gentiles being blessed and flowing out from them according to Zechariah and the land according to Abraham and the kingdom of the house of Israel and Judah where the sceptre will come from when Shiloh comes.
The Gentiles were grafted in among the believing Israelites in Romans chapter 11. We have become a part of Israel of the Promise from Romans 9:8.
14. Salvation has nothing to do with the blood line because God has never been a respector of persons before, during, and after Calvary. The middle wall of partition being torn down is because gentiles never had the specific covenant in a theocracy with God etc. They could only be drawn by the light of the jews and come into judaism or know God according to their conscience.
You cannot have it both ways. Either God is a respecter of persons, or He is not.
15. You are not taking all contexts into consideration and skating the truth with other scriptures and then building up scenarios that are straw men and may only have partial truths or none at all. Give up and give into the truth. Jerry Kelso
Having been a deacon in a Dispensational church body which taught the book "Things to Come" by Dr. Dwight Pentecost during Sunday-School, that is exactly what I have done.
I became very concerned about the doctrine when I learned that he claimed the Church Age would end 7 years before the Second Coming of Christ.
I then set out to find out who first taught the doctrine and when the doctrine was brought to America.
Next, I discovered that many of those I loved did not want to know the answers to those questions.
Neither did they want those sitting in the pews of our church body to know the answers to those questions.
.