Challenges for pre tribulation rapture

[BABerean2]

baberean,
Prove that Israel will not be a nation of believing jews in the earthly KOH reign with Christ and David as the King over the nation of Israel and the 12 tribes ruled by the jewish apostles and that it bring the jewish house of Israel and Judah as the head of the nations and Jerusalem as it's capitol over the earth. That is their purpose and destiny for the KOH reign. Jerry Kelso

Let us search for the word "Jews" in the Book of Revelation.

Rev_2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
(Who worships in a synagogue?)

Rev_3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

Compare this text to the words of the Apostle Paul.

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.


Let us look at the spiritual condition of the city of Jerusalem, near the time of the 7th trumpet.
Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.


You cannot divide what the Lord Jesus Christ has joined together.
Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Sometimes I do not like what I find in God's Word.
However, I must accept it, no matter what is taught by the doctrines of men.
.

 

[jerry kelso]

Let us search for the word "Jews" in the Book of Revelation.

Rev_2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
(Who worships in a synagogue?)

Rev_3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

Compare this text to the words of the Apostle Paul.

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.


Let us look at the spiritual condition of the city of Jerusalem, near the time of the 7th trumpet.
Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.


You cannot divide what the Lord Jesus Christ has joined together.
Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Sometimes I do not like what I find in God's Word.
However, I must accept it, no matter what is taught by the doctrines of men.
.

baberean,
You have not proved what I said about the earthly nation of Israel being jewish and separate from the body of Christ of jews and gentiles in one body alike in the role of rulership positions.
We are all believers no matter what particular race we are of ethnicity. There is no scripture you can come up with to prove otherwise and you know it.
Jesus was a jew and it was his people with eternal covenants to fulfill with them. As a nation they have not been fulfilled because they disobeyed but they will in the future for they are eternal they will be fulfilled with them when they obey.
Now God's word is clear about it and all you want to do is keep muddying the waters for not accepting the truth. Yes I do accept this biblical truth not doctrines taught by men.
The only way that you could believe that the covenants will not be fulfilled is to believe in replacement theology. Jerry Kelso

 

[MWood]

Really...

Then what is this?

Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

and this?

Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
.

Well you do know, and understand what I am saying. There is no need for me to keep repeating my self.

 

[BABerean2]

baberean,
You have not proved what I said about the earthly nation of Israel being jewish and separate from the body of Christ of jews and gentiles in one body alike in the role of rulership positions.
We are all believers no matter what particular race we are of ethnicity. There is no scripture you can come up with to prove otherwise and you know it.
Jesus was a jew and it was his people with eternal covenants to fulfill with them. As a nation they have not been fulfilled because they disobeyed but they will in the future for they are eternal they will be fulfilled with them when they obey.
Now God's word is clear about it and all you want to do is keep muddying the waters for not accepting the truth. Yes I do accept this biblical truth not doctrines taught by men.
The only way that you could believe that the covenants will not be fulfilled is to believe in replacement theology. Jerry Kelso

Jerry,

Jesus Christ was a Jew who fulfilled the promise to Abraham. Galatians 3:16, 29
We inherit the promise to Abraham through Christ.

God's Word is clear that there is now only one way of salvation and that is by being grafted into the Olive Tree, which is a symbol of the New Blood Covenant Church of Jesus Christ.
The Gentiles were grafted in among the faithful Israelites, who remained in the Olive Tree through faith in Christ.

It is you who are teaching replacement theology, by attempting to replace the Godly remnant of Israelites in Romans chapter 11 with the Baal worshippers.
You are attempting to replace Israel of the Promise with Israel of the Flesh.

Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
Rom 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
Rom 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

You are claiming that Christ left something undone on the Cross of Calvary.

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
.

 

[Danoh]

Really...

Then what is this?

Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

and this?

Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
.

Thanks for proving Mwood's point.

 

[jerry kelso]

Jerry,

Jesus Christ was a Jew who fulfilled the promise to Abraham. Galatians 3:16, 29
We inherit the promise to Abraham through Christ.

God's Word is clear that there is now only one way of salvation and that is by being grafted into the Olive Tree, which is a symbol of the New Blood Covenant Church of Jesus Christ.
The Gentiles were grafted in among the faithful Israelites, who remained in the Olive Tree through faith in Christ.

It is you who are teaching replacement theology, by attempting to replace the Godly remnant of Israelites in Romans chapter 11 with the Baal worshippers.
You are attempting to replace Israel of the Promise with Israel of the Flesh.

Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
Rom 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
Rom 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

You are claiming that Christ left something undone on the Cross of Calvary.

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
.

baberean2,

1. I agree Jesus was a Jew who fulfilled the promise of Abraham concerning salvation.

2. I agree there is only one way of salvation.

3. I agree that in the church age jew and gentile, male and female, bond and free etc. are grafted into the olive tree for the body of Christ is jew and gentile alike which is the new covenant church. The early church which was primarily jewish for 8-10 years was the first of the new covenant church.

4. I agree the gentiles were grafted in because of the rejection of the nation of Israel and that is what the scripture said. Faithful Israelites were in there for there was a remnant of jews even at that time and that is what Paul records.

5. Replacement theology? Replacing the jewish remnant? Attempting to replace the Godly remnant of Israelites in Romans 11 with the Baal worshippers?
Baal worshippers are not and cannot be a part of the grafting in and the only replacing the remnant of jews
is by your including of the church from the church age to fulfill their covenant promises about the land and the kingdom. There will be the nation of Israel from Revelation 12 preserved in the wilderness for the last 3/5 years in the time of Jacob's trouble which Daniel and Jeremiah talk about that they have to go through and there is a jewish remnant in that day as in Revelation 12 that will obey God. This is never said of the church today.

6. Israel has the promise of the Abrahamic and Davidic covenants specifically to their rulership position in Jerusalem which is jewish and to the land which is specific to the nation of Israel in that day of the kingdom. This is not promised to the church of today in this respect.

7. Israel as a physical nation are not obedient today and in the tribulation they will come to obedience and become Spiritual Israel because they will accept the new covenant in his blood and they will look upon him whom they had pierced which were the jews and not the body of Christ.

8. Your repeated statements are wrong, desperate, deceiving, and dishonest. Jerry Kelso

 

[BABerean2]

Baal worshippers are not and cannot be a part of the grafting in and the only replacing the remnant of jews
is by your including of the church from the church age to fulfill their covenant promises about the land and the kingdom. There will be the nation of Israel from Revelation 12 preserved in the wilderness for the last 3/5 years in the time of Jacob's trouble which Daniel and Jeremiah talk about that they have to go through and there is a jewish remnant in that day as in Revelation 12 that will obey God. This is never said of the church today.

Here we find those under the Grace of the Blood of the Lamb in Revelation chapter 12, which shows your doctrine to be in error.

A person cannot be under the Blood of the Lamb and not be under the Grace of the New Blood Covenant.

Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

The "forever" Blood Covenant of Jesus Christ that will be in effect until His Second Coming.


Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
.

 

[jerry kelso]

Here we find those under the Grace of the Blood of the Lamb in Revelation chapter 12, which shows your doctrine to be in error.

A person cannot be under the Blood of the Lamb and not be under the Grace of the New Blood Covenant.

Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

The "forever" Blood Covenant of Jesus Christ that will be in effect until His Second Coming.


Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
.

beberean2,


1. Are you that void of understanding?

2. The new covenant in Christ's blood was at Calvary. In the tribulation it is the same and it is the same gospel as the new covenant in his blood at Calvary. This is why the jews will look at him whom they pierced.

3. The gentiles of the church and even other nations never had Christ crucified. The Romans performed it but the jews were guilty of having him crucified.

4. Singing the Song of Moses and the lamb is jewish under the new covenant in Revelation 15 which is the time of Jacob's trouble which is for the jewish nation only. Quit being ridiculous and refusing the truth.

5. The reason you don't and can't believe this is because you think the KOH message was preached to the nation of Israel under the new covenant in the early church. I understand the perception but it is not reality and even if it was it still wouldn't matter because the jewish nation has eternal covenant promises in specific roles concerning the KOH rule and reign and the land of Israel which will be expanded and Jerusalem will be the capitol of the world and the 12 jewish apostles will rule over the 12 tribes of Jewish Israel and the jewish King as King David of the jewish nation of the house of Israel and Judah as one stick is obvious of what their position will be in the KOH. I don't know why you really are being so stubborn to believe the truth.

6. You are trying to replace their covenant promises with the church and the main reason is because that is what the scripture says when it doesn't. Believe what you want but you can't answer to the reason why everything that is about the government of the theocracy of Christ in the millennial kingdom is jewish. Jerry kelso

 

[BABerean2]

The gentiles of the church and even other nations never had Christ crucified. The Romans performed it but the jews were guilty of having him crucified.

Jerry,

I am the one who drove the spikes into His hands and feet, because of my sin.

The Lord Jesus could have prayed to the father and had thousands of angels to intercede for Him.

Mat_26:53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?

He voluntarily laid down on that Cross.

It was not the nails that held him to the Cross.

It was His love for a rotten, no good, sinner like me.

He bought me that day, with His Blood.


You will find in the text below those of all bloodlines.

Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

 

[jerry kelso]

Jerry,

I am the one who drove the spikes into His hands and feet, because of my sin.

The Lord Jesus could have prayed to the father and had thousands of angels to intercede for Him.

Mat_26:53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?

He voluntarily laid down on that Cross.

It was not the nails that held him to the Cross.

It was His love for a rotten, no good, sinner like me.

He bought me that day, with His Blood.


You will find in the text below those of all bloodlines.

Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

baberean,

1. Do you just like proving a point that doesn't answer to the actual point being made?

2. Jews and gentiles both will be saved in the tribulation.

3. Revelation 5:10 is talking about the church of today of jews and gentiles that are in heaven before the tribulation.

4. Revelation 11:18 the church of today of jews and gentiles are still in heaven at the believers judgement of works and is in heaven in

5. Revelation 19:9 is at the marriage of the lamb preparing for the marriage supper of the lamb and then in 19:14 Christ the King of Kings and Lord of Lords comes with Christ out of heaven down to earth to do battle at Armageddon where Christ will destroy the nations of the world with the brightness of his coming and save the nation of Israel.

6. Now you can keep giving giving your scriptures and not give the total truth to the context we are speaking of but you still have not, and can not, and most likely won't try to disprove the theocracy in the KOH reign and rule with Christ as the head of that government in the jewish capitol of Jerusalem in the jewish country of Israel with the Jewish King Jesus Christ and David specifically to the nation of jewish Israel and with the 12 jewish apostles ruling over the 12 jewish tribes of the jewish Israel in the land of Israel which will be expanded from what it is today and in which they will be at the head of the nations.

7. They will all be saved under the new covenant in its spiritual aspect of the death, burial, and resurrection.

8. The physical role of reigning of those saved jews and gentiles will be ruling in different positions in the KOH but not in the position of the head of the nations. The jewish nation is preserved in the wilderness and will be reunited with the remnant. This will be the two sticks of the house of Israel and Judah from Ezekiel 26 and they will become one stick and never be separated anymore. The jews and gentile believers have never and never will be separated at all for the gates of hell shall never prevail against the church. Now you can't disprove this so you need to quit trying to divert attention from the real truth of the matter and quit trying to rob Israel's eternal covenants even though you really can't anyway.

9. Your bloodline theory is not correct because God saves all men through the death, burial and resurrection.
Why does it really bother you that the nation of Israel will be at the head of the nations? Are you going to be a part of the theocracy in Israel at the head of the nations? You say you support jews, why? Are you trying to be a witness to them? Nothing wrong with that for those that don't believe the gospel just like any gentile.
I think the jewish believers need to witness to you and explain the real truth about the KOH reign and that their rule as the head of the nations is true. Quit fighting against the truth of the word. Jerry kelso

 

[BABerean2]

Now you can't disprove this so you need to quit trying to divert attention from the real truth of the matter and quit trying to rob Israel's eternal covenants even though you really can't anyway.

9. Your bloodline theory is not correct because God saves all men through the death, burial and resurrection.
Why does it really bother you that the nation of Israel will be at the head of the nations? Are you going to be a part of the theocracy in Israel at the head of the nations? You say you support jews, why? Are you trying to be a witness to them? Nothing wrong with that for those that don't believe the gospel just like any gentile.
I think the jewish believers need to witness to you and explain the real truth about the KOH reign and that their rule as the head of the nations is true. Quit fighting against the truth of the word.

Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:


Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.



John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

It will be a theocracy with only one head and that one head is the One Shepherd.

That head will be the Son of the Living God, Jesus Christ.

.

 

[jerry kelso]

Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:


Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.



John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

It will be a theocracy with only one head and that one head is the One Shepherd.

That head will be the Son of the Living God, Jesus Christ.

.

baberean2,

1. Are you telling me that you don't believe there will be a theocracy with the physical jewish nation at the head of the nations?

2. Are you telling me that you don't believe that the Jewish David will not be the physical King of Israel in the physical KOH reign on earth?

3. Are you telling me that the jewish apostles that were disciples of the jewish Jesus will not reign over the physical jewish tribes of physical jewish land of the house of Israel in the KOH reign on earth that God promised them through the Abrahamic covenant who was the father of the Jewish nation?

4. Are you telling me that the physical nation will be on earth but not fulfilling the head of the nations in the restoration of all things through the Davidic covenant?

5. What is the purpose for the jewish nation of being in these positions if it is not to fulfill their covenants because of coming back to Christ and Christ writing the laws on their hearts and they becoming his people forever etc. You can't overcome this and you keep sidetracking the issue.

6. No one denies that there is one fold today or in the KOH reign on earth concerning those that are saved! Answer to this and quit bouncing around the fact because of your faulty theory.


7. You are trying to fool people into thinking that the bible shows that because the new covenant was made at Calvary Jeremiah's prophecy was completely fulfilled. With that thinking then we would have to believe that the Day of Pentecost was a full fulfillment of Joel's prophecy of speaking in tongues etc. Peter talked about the restoration of all things but he didn't say it was fixing to happen. You make out he did because you think he preached the KOH was at hand in a round about way because you believe because the early church was jewish and they were presented the KOH message as a second chance to accept God. That is not scriptural but it is your opinion. Christ said it wasn't for them to know the times and seasons about the KOH and Peter just knew that these things of tongues etc were signs of the KOH at hand.

8. This is your whole blunder of believing that the jews have had their chances at the head of the nations and they blew it and have no chances, no get out of jail card.

9. The covenants of Abraham and David for the jewish nation that are not for the church of today concerning the roles specific to the government on earth that is political concerning the rule on earth out of Jerusalem is scriptural fact.

10. You are saying that Christ is wrong in choosing Israel in the role of heading the theocracy because of the spiritual aspect that saves jew and gentiles both. Why does it bother you so bad that the physical nation will come back to God and fulfill their covenants in the roles of the earthly theocracy with Christ?

11. All you can do is disagree and say that that is not what the scripture says and build up this false scenario that salvation for all men today prevents their role being different in the kingdom than the church itself in the KOH reign. You have not and cannot prove that the church of the jew and gentiles will be at the head of the nation for they were never promised that. All you can say to prove that is their is one fold. Their is one fold spiritually but the church is a microorganism that includes both parties of the whole world in a different program that is different than the physical nation of Israel.

12. You will have a different role than I in the earthly governmental theocracy, does that make any difference to anything because we are both saved? Wake up and have some common sense to logic.

13. A jew can have a different role just like you and be saved just like you but are you going to cry wolf because he has a greater or different role than you and vice versa?
The only reason the bloodline matters at all is because God promised them specifically the land and the kingdom in light of gentiles being blessed and flowing out from them according to Zechariah and the land according to Abraham and the kingdom of the house of Israel and Judah where the sceptre will come from when Shiloh comes.

14. Salvation has nothing to do with the blood line because God has never been a respector of persons before, during, and after Calvary. The middle wall of partition being torn down is because gentiles never had the specific covenant in a theocracy with God etc. They could only be drawn by the light of the jews and come into judaism or know God according to their conscience.

15. You are not taking all contexts into consideration and skating the truth with other scriptures and then building up scenarios that are straw men and may only have partial truths or none at all. Give up and give into the truth. Jerry Kelso

 

[BABerean2]

baberean2,

1. Are you telling me that you don't believe there will be a theocracy with the physical jewish nation at the head of the nations?

2. Are you telling me that you don't believe that the Jewish David will not be the physical King of Israel in the physical KOH reign on earth?

3. Are you telling me that the jewish apostles that were disciples of the jewish Jesus will not reign over the physical jewish tribes of physical jewish land of the house of Israel in the KOH reign on earth that God promised them through the Abrahamic covenant who was the father of the Jewish nation?

4. Are you telling me that the physical nation will be on earth but not fulfilling the head of the nations in the restoration of all things through the Davidic covenant?

5. What is the purpose for the jewish nation of being in these positions if it is not to fulfill their covenants because of coming back to Christ and Christ writing the laws on their hearts and they becoming his people forever etc. You can't overcome this and you keep sidetracking the issue.

6. No one denies that there is one fold today or in the KOH reign on earth concerning those that are saved! Answer to this and quit bouncing around the fact because of your faulty theory.


7. You are trying to fool people into thinking that the bible shows that because the new covenant was made at Calvary Jeremiah's prophecy was completely fulfilled. With that thinking then we would have to believe that the Day of Pentecost was a full fulfillment of Joel's prophecy of speaking in tongues etc. Peter talked about the restoration of all things but he didn't say it was fixing to happen. You make out he did because you think he preached the KOH was at hand in a round about way because you believe because the early church was jewish and they were presented the KOH message as a second chance to accept God. That is not scriptural but it is your opinion. Christ said it wasn't for them to know the times and seasons about the KOH and Peter just knew that these things of tongues etc were signs of the KOH at hand.

8. This is your whole blunder of believing that the jews have had their chances at the head of the nations and they blew it and have no chances, no get out of jail card.

9. The covenants of Abraham and David for the jewish nation that are not for the church of today concerning the roles specific to the government on earth that is political concerning the rule on earth out of Jerusalem is scriptural fact.

10. You are saying that Christ is wrong in choosing Israel in the role of heading the theocracy because of the spiritual aspect that saves jew and gentiles both. Why does it bother you so bad that the physical nation will come back to God and fulfill their covenants in the roles of the earthly theocracy with Christ?

11. All you can do is disagree and say that that is not what the scripture says and build up this false scenario that salvation for all men today prevents their role being different in the kingdom than the church itself in the KOH reign. You have not and cannot prove that the church of the jew and gentiles will be at the head of the nation for they were never promised that. All you can say to prove that is their is one fold. Their is one fold spiritually but the church is a microorganism that includes both parties of the whole world in a different program that is different than the physical nation of Israel.

12. You will have a different role than I in the earthly governmental theocracy, does that make any difference to anything because we are both saved? Wake up and have some common sense to logic.

13. A jew can have a different role just like you and be saved just like you but are you going to cry wolf because he has a greater or different role than you and vice versa?
The only reason the bloodline matters at all is because God promised them specifically the land and the kingdom in light of gentiles being blessed and flowing out from them according to Zechariah and the land according to Abraham and the kingdom of the house of Israel and Judah where the sceptre will come from when Shiloh comes.

14. Salvation has nothing to do with the blood line because God has never been a respector of persons before, during, and after Calvary. The middle wall of partition being torn down is because gentiles never had the specific covenant in a theocracy with God etc. They could only be drawn by the light of the jews and come into judaism or know God according to their conscience.

15. You are not taking all contexts into consideration and skating the truth with other scriptures and then building up scenarios that are straw men and may only have partial truths or none at all. Give up and give into the truth. Jerry Kelso

My comments are in Bold Blue Text.


1. Are you telling me that you don't believe there will be a theocracy with the physical jewish nation at the head of the nations? Jesus Christ will be the head of the nations, not a nation based on bloodline.

2. Are you telling me that you don't believe that the Jewish David will not be the physical King of Israel in the physical KOH reign on earth? He will be there along with us bowing his knee to the Savior of the world.

3. Are you telling me that the jewish apostles that were disciples of the jewish Jesus will not reign over the physical jewish tribes of physical jewish land of the house of Israel in the KOH reign on earth that God promised them through the Abrahamic covenant who was the father of the Jewish nation?
There will be no difference between the Jews and Gentiles. God is not a respecter of persons.

4. Are you telling me that the physical nation will be on earth but not fulfilling the head of the nations in the restoration of all things through the Davidic covenant?
No. This rotten sin-cursed world is going to be burned up and dissolved just as it is written in 2 Peter 3:10, at the Second Coming of Christ.

5. What is the purpose for the jewish nation of being in these positions if it is not to fulfill their covenants because of coming back to Christ and Christ writing the laws on their hearts and they becoming his people forever etc. You can't overcome this and you keep sidetracking the issue.
It is the indwelling of the Holy Ghost inside of us that writes God's law inside of us in our hearts.
......................
2Co_3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
.....................
6. No one denies that there is one fold today or in the KOH reign on earth concerning those that are saved! Answer to this and quit bouncing around the fact because of your faulty theory.
You have already been shown that the kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of God are the same.

7. You are trying to fool people into thinking that the bible shows that because the new covenant was made at Calvary Jeremiah's prophecy was completely fulfilled. With that thinking then we would have to believe that the Day of Pentecost was a full fulfillment of Joel's prophecy of speaking in tongues etc. Peter talked about the restoration of all things but he didn't say it was fixing to happen. You make out he did because you think he preached the KOH was at hand in a round about way because you believe because the early church was jewish and they were presented the KOH message as a second chance to accept God. That is not scriptural but it is your opinion. Christ said it wasn't for them to know the times and seasons about the KOH and Peter just knew that these things of tongues etc were signs of the KOH at hand.
When Jesus said on the Cross... "It is finished.", I believe what He said.

8. This is your whole blunder of believing that the jews have had their chances at the head of the nations and they blew it and have no chances, no get out of jail card.
They have the same "get out of jail card" that the rest of us have. God is not a respecter of persons.
If I had a Jewish grandmother, my path to salvation would be the same as any Gentile.

9. The covenants of Abraham and David for the jewish nation that are not for the church of today concerning the roles specific to the government on earth that is political concerning the rule on earth out of Jerusalem is scriptural fact.
Paul says the opposite in Galatians 3:16, 29.

10. You are saying that Christ is wrong in choosing Israel in the role of heading the theocracy because of the spiritual aspect that saves jew and gentiles both. Why does it bother you so bad that the physical nation will come back to God and fulfill their covenants in the roles of the earthly theocracy with Christ?
It is my hope and prayer that the whole nation will be grafted back into the Olive Tree, just like the Jewish Christians that I know. There is no other plan.

11. All you can do is disagree and say that that is not what the scripture says and build up this false scenario that salvation for all men today prevents their role being different in the kingdom than the church itself in the KOH reign. You have not and cannot prove that the church of the jew and gentiles will be at the head of the nation for they were never promised that. All you can say to prove that is their is one fold. Their is one fold spiritually but the church is a microorganism that includes both parties of the whole world in a different program that is different than the physical nation of Israel.
I will say it again. The ultimate fulfillment of God's Plan of salvation is Jesus Christ, not the nation of Israel.

12. You will have a different role than I in the earthly governmental theocracy, does that make any difference to anything because we are both saved? Wake up and have some common sense to logic.
My role will be the same as yours and that is to bow down and worship the Lamb of God, who bought us with His Blood.

13. A jew can have a different role just like you and be saved just like you but are you going to cry wolf because he has a greater or different role than you and vice versa?
The only reason the bloodline matters at all is because God promised them specifically the land and the kingdom in light of gentiles being blessed and flowing out from them according to Zechariah and the land according to Abraham and the kingdom of the house of Israel and Judah where the sceptre will come from when Shiloh comes.
The Gentiles were grafted in among the believing Israelites in Romans chapter 11. We have become a part of Israel of the Promise from Romans 9:8.

14. Salvation has nothing to do with the blood line because God has never been a respector of persons before, during, and after Calvary. The middle wall of partition being torn down is because gentiles never had the specific covenant in a theocracy with God etc. They could only be drawn by the light of the jews and come into judaism or know God according to their conscience.
You cannot have it both ways. Either God is a respecter of persons, or He is not.

15. You are not taking all contexts into consideration and skating the truth with other scriptures and then building up scenarios that are straw men and may only have partial truths or none at all. Give up and give into the truth. Jerry Kelso
Having been a deacon in a Dispensational church body which taught the book "Things to Come" by Dr. Dwight Pentecost during Sunday-School, that is exactly what I have done.
I became very concerned about the doctrine when I learned that he claimed the Church Age would end 7 years before the Second Coming of Christ.

I then set out to find out who first taught the doctrine and when the doctrine was brought to America.

Next, I discovered that many of those I loved did not want to know the answers to those questions.

Neither did they want those sitting in the pews of our church body to know the answers to those questions.
.

 

[jerry kelso]

My comments are in Bold Blue Text.


1. Are you telling me that you don't believe there will be a theocracy with the physical jewish nation at the head of the nations? Jesus Christ will be the head of the nations, not a nation based on bloodline.

2. Are you telling me that you don't believe that the Jewish David will not be the physical King of Israel in the physical KOH reign on earth? He will be there along with us bowing his knee to the Savior of the world.

3. Are you telling me that the jewish apostles that were disciples of the jewish Jesus will not reign over the physical jewish tribes of physical jewish land of the house of Israel in the KOH reign on earth that God promised them through the Abrahamic covenant who was the father of the Jewish nation?
There will be no difference between the Jews and Gentiles. God is not a respecter of persons.

4. Are you telling me that the physical nation will be on earth but not fulfilling the head of the nations in the restoration of all things through the Davidic covenant?
No. This rotten sin-cursed world is going to be burned up and dissolved just as it is written in 2 Peter 3:10, at the Second Coming of Christ.

5. What is the purpose for the jewish nation of being in these positions if it is not to fulfill their covenants because of coming back to Christ and Christ writing the laws on their hearts and they becoming his people forever etc. You can't overcome this and you keep sidetracking the issue.
It is the indwelling of the Holy Ghost inside of us that writes God's law inside of us in our hearts.
......................
2Co_3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
.....................
6. No one denies that there is one fold today or in the KOH reign on earth concerning those that are saved! Answer to this and quit bouncing around the fact because of your faulty theory.
You have already been shown that the kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of God are the same.

7. You are trying to fool people into thinking that the bible shows that because the new covenant was made at Calvary Jeremiah's prophecy was completely fulfilled. With that thinking then we would have to believe that the Day of Pentecost was a full fulfillment of Joel's prophecy of speaking in tongues etc. Peter talked about the restoration of all things but he didn't say it was fixing to happen. You make out he did because you think he preached the KOH was at hand in a round about way because you believe because the early church was jewish and they were presented the KOH message as a second chance to accept God. That is not scriptural but it is your opinion. Christ said it wasn't for them to know the times and seasons about the KOH and Peter just knew that these things of tongues etc were signs of the KOH at hand.
When Jesus said on the Cross... "It is finished.", I believe what He said.

8. This is your whole blunder of believing that the jews have had their chances at the head of the nations and they blew it and have no chances, no get out of jail card.
They have the same "get out of jail card" that the rest of us have. God is not a respecter of persons.
If I had a Jewish grandmother, my path to salvation would be the same as any Gentile.

9. The covenants of Abraham and David for the jewish nation that are not for the church of today concerning the roles specific to the government on earth that is political concerning the rule on earth out of Jerusalem is scriptural fact.
Paul says the opposite in Galatians 3:16, 29.

10. You are saying that Christ is wrong in choosing Israel in the role of heading the theocracy because of the spiritual aspect that saves jew and gentiles both. Why does it bother you so bad that the physical nation will come back to God and fulfill their covenants in the roles of the earthly theocracy with Christ?
It is my hope and prayer that the whole nation will be grafted back into the Olive Tree, just like the Jewish Christians that I know. There is no other plan.

11. All you can do is disagree and say that that is not what the scripture says and build up this false scenario that salvation for all men today prevents their role being different in the kingdom than the church itself in the KOH reign. You have not and cannot prove that the church of the jew and gentiles will be at the head of the nation for they were never promised that. All you can say to prove that is their is one fold. Their is one fold spiritually but the church is a microorganism that includes both parties of the whole world in a different program that is different than the physical nation of Israel.
I will say it again. The ultimate fulfillment of God's Plan of salvation is Jesus Christ, not the nation of Israel.

12. You will have a different role than I in the earthly governmental theocracy, does that make any difference to anything because we are both saved? Wake up and have some common sense to logic.
My role will be the same as yours and that is to bow down and worship the Lamb of God, who bought us with His Blood.

13. A jew can have a different role just like you and be saved just like you but are you going to cry wolf because he has a greater or different role than you and vice versa?
The only reason the bloodline matters at all is because God promised them specifically the land and the kingdom in light of gentiles being blessed and flowing out from them according to Zechariah and the land according to Abraham and the kingdom of the house of Israel and Judah where the sceptre will come from when Shiloh comes.
The Gentiles were grafted in among the believing Israelites in Romans chapter 11. We have become a part of Israel of the Promise from Romans 9:8.

14. Salvation has nothing to do with the blood line because God has never been a respector of persons before, during, and after Calvary. The middle wall of partition being torn down is because gentiles never had the specific covenant in a theocracy with God etc. They could only be drawn by the light of the jews and come into judaism or know God according to their conscience.
You cannot have it both ways. Either God is a respecter of persons, or He is not.

15. You are not taking all contexts into consideration and skating the truth with other scriptures and then building up scenarios that are straw men and may only have partial truths or none at all. Give up and give into the truth. Jerry Kelso
Having been a deacon in a Dispensational church body which taught the book "Things to Come" by Dr. Dwight Pentecost during Sunday-School, that is exactly what I have done.
I became very concerned about the doctrine when I learned that he claimed the Church Age would end 7 years before the Second Coming of Christ.

I then set out to find out who first taught the doctrine and when the doctrine was brought to America.

Next, I discovered that many of those I loved did not want to know the answers to those questions.

Neither did they want those sitting in the pews of our church body to know the answers to those questions.
.

baberean2,

1. You are wrong again about the big picture.

2. The position of pre-trib rapture has nothing to do with the covenants of Abraham and David that are eternal for the physical nation of Israel.

3. You are wrong about the doctrine being taught by Darby or anyone else in this generation or right before. The apostle Paul taught it.

4. You can't answer to the nation of physical Israel made up of jews being at the head of the nations versus jews and gentiles of the church making up the governmental body of the head of the nations over the world.

5. If you think you can you are just fooling yourself.

6. It is alright to have questions but you are still wrong and that is troubling.

7. You keep going back to your same argument that doesn't explain the truth. David will be king over Israel which is the jewish nation. Now are you going to tell me that this nation will be filled with gentiles as well as jews? If you think so you don't understand the different callings of the heavenly calling of the church today and the nation of Israel of jews alone in their earthly calling.

8. So answer to that whether you think that the nation of Israel as head of the nations will be jews and gentiles together and what is the purpose of the physical nation of the tribes of Israel? I can only imagine what your answer will be but I will let you answer. Jerry Kelso

 

[BABerean2]

baberean2,

1. You are wrong again about the big picture.

2. The position of pre-trib rapture has nothing to do with the covenants of Abraham and David that are eternal for the physical nation of Israel.

3. You are wrong about the doctrine being taught by Darby or anyone else in this generation or right before. The apostle Paul taught it.

4. You can't answer to the nation of physical Israel made up of jews being at the head of the nations versus jews and gentiles of the church making up the governmental body of the head of the nations over the world.

5. If you think you can you are just fooling yourself.

6. It is alright to have questions but you are still wrong and that is troubling.

7. You keep going back to your same argument that doesn't explain the truth. David will be king over Israel which is the jewish nation. Now are you going to tell me that this nation will be filled with gentiles as well as jews? If you think so you don't understand the different callings of the heavenly calling of the church today and the nation of Israel of jews alone in their earthly calling.

8. So answer to that whether you think that the nation of Israel as head of the nations will be jews and gentiles together and what is the purpose of the physical nation of the tribes of Israel? I can only imagine what your answer will be but I will let you answer. Jerry Kelso

This is what Peter had to say about David's throne.

Act 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Act 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
Act 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

It is what I have been saying all along.

Christ is the ultimate fulfillment of God's Plan.

Christ is the one who will sit on the throne.
.

 

[jerry kelso]

This is what Peter had to say about David's throne.

Act 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Act 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
Act 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

It is what I have been saying all along.

Christ is the ultimate fulfillment of God's Plan.

Christ is the one who will sit on the throne.
.

baberean,
That is not in disagreement. The other part of the government is the nation of Israel which is jewish and not gentile. If you don't believe that then you don't believe the bible.
What you haven't answered to the is specific point of the nation of jewish Israel believers being the government in the theocracy on earth of the twelve tribes being ruled by the 12 apostles who are jewish. If you don't believe they are the main part of the theocratical government that rules from the nation of Jerusalem and are over all the world then you don't believe the bible or you believe in replacement theology. The olive tree doesn't do away with the nation of Israel's callings in the earthly head of the nations and Paul shows this by the callings and gifts of jewish nation of Israel are without repentance. This is why Paul said that concerning the gospel, they ae enemies for your sakes, but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers sakes. It is also why Paul said, For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth. And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Saboath had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha. This is future to the tribulation. Quit skating the full issue and spinning. This is the no spin zone. Jerry Kelso

 

[BABerean2]

This is why Paul said that concerning the gospel, they ae enemies for your sakes, but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers sakes.

There are two different groups of Israelites in the verse. Not one.

One group of Israelites were enemies of the Gospel, because they rejected Christ, and caused problems for Paul almost everywhere he went.

The other group of Israelites accepted Christ and were the election.

Paul starts Romans chapter 11 with two groups of Israelites and he ends it in the same way.

Tremendous confusion is produced by lumping all of the Israelites together into one group.
.

 

[jerry kelso]

There are two different groups of Israelites in the verse. Not one.

One group of Israelites were enemies of the Gospel, because they rejected Christ, and caused problems for Paul almost everywhere he went.

The other group of Israelites accepted Christ and were the election.

Paul starts Romans chapter 11 with two groups of Israelites and he ends it in the same way.

Tremendous confusion is produced by lumping all of the Israelites together into one group.
.

baberean2,

1.You're way off. The eternal covenant of the new covenant is a fact. It is conditioned by obedience and this is why Jesus said Repent for the KOH is at Hand! They were backslidden in Jesus day and they were punished for it as they have been in times past.

2. The generation in the tribulation is the jewish nation that will be backslidden and then give the hearts to God as a result of the 144,000 jewish witnesses and the 2 Witnesses which will be Elijah for a fact and the other will either be Enoch or Moses.

3. Malachi 4:5: BEHOLD, I WILL SEND YOU ELIJAH THE PROPHET BEFORE THE COMING OF THE GREAT AND DREADFUL DAY OF THE LORD: AND HE SHALL TURN THE HEART OF THE FATHERS TO THE CHILDREN, AND THE HEART OF THE CHILDREN TO THEIR FATHERS, LEST I COME AND SMITE THE EARTH WITH A CURSE.
LUKE 9:11; AND THEY ASKED HIM, SAYING, WHY SAY THE SCRIBES THAT ELIAS MUST FIRST COME? VERSE 12; AND HE ANSWERED AND TOLD THEM, ELIAS VERILY COMETH FIRST, AND RESTORETH ALL THINGS;

4 AND HOW IT IS WRITTEN OF THE SON OF MAN, THAT HE MUST SUFFER MANY THINGS, ABE BE SET AT NOUGHT. THIS SHOWS THAT ELIAS WHO IS ELIJAH WILL COME TO RESTORE AT ALL THINGS BEFORE THE DAY OF THE LORD WHICH IN MALACHI IS THE GREAT AND DREADFUL DAY OF THE LORD.

5. ELIJAH WILL HELP RESTORE THE NATION AND ORGANIZE THE TRIBE IDENTIFICATION TO THE PEOPLE AND PREPARE THEM TO REPENT AND HELP THEM PREPARE FOR THEIR KINGDOM COVENANT AS THE HEAD OF THE NATIONS.

6. THE ONLY CONFUSION IS YOU REMAINING IN YOUR FALSE NARRATIVE ABOUT ISRAEL'S EARTHLY CALLING NOT BEING THE HEAD OF THE NATIONS IN THE THEOCRACY OF THE WORLD. YOU NEED TO SURRENDER TO THE TRUTH AND QUIT POSTING DECEITFUL SCENARIOS AND UNTRUTHS ACCORDING TO THE WORD.

7. The least you could do is try to answer what the physical nation of Israel's purpose is and why there are at the head of the nation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Jerry Kelso

 

[jerry kelso]

baberean2,

1.You're way off. The eternal covenant of the new covenant is a fact. It is conditioned by obedience and this is why Jesus said Repent for the KOH is at Hand! They were backslidden in Jesus day and they were punished for it as they have been in times past.

2. The generation in the tribulation is the jewish nation that will be backslidden and then give the hearts to God as a result of the 144,000 jewish witnesses and the 2 Witnesses which will be Elijah for a fact and the other will either be Enoch or Moses.

3. Malachi 4:5: BEHOLD, I WILL SEND YOU ELIJAH THE PROPHET BEFORE THE COMING OF THE GREAT AND DREADFUL DAY OF THE LORD: AND HE SHALL TURN THE HEART OF THE FATHERS TO THE CHILDREN, AND THE HEART OF THE CHILDREN TO THEIR FATHERS, LEST I COME AND SMITE THE EARTH WITH A CURSE.
LUKE 9:11; AND THEY ASKED HIM, SAYING, WHY SAY THE SCRIBES THAT ELIAS MUST FIRST COME? VERSE 12; AND HE ANSWERED AND TOLD THEM, ELIAS VERILY COMETH FIRST, AND RESTORETH ALL THINGS;

4 AND HOW IT IS WRITTEN OF THE SON OF MAN, THAT HE MUST SUFFER MANY THINGS, ABE BE SET AT NOUGHT. THIS SHOWS THAT ELIAS WHO IS ELIJAH WILL COME TO RESTORE AT ALL THINGS BEFORE THE DAY OF THE LORD WHICH IN MALACHI IS THE GREAT AND DREADFUL DAY OF THE LORD.

5. ELIJAH WILL HELP RESTORE THE NATION AND ORGANIZE THE TRIBE IDENTIFICATION TO THE PEOPLE AND PREPARE THEM TO REPENT AND HELP THEM PREPARE FOR THEIR KINGDOM COVENANT AS THE HEAD OF THE NATIONS.

6. THE ONLY CONFUSION IS YOU REMAINING IN YOUR FALSE NARRATIVE ABOUT ISRAEL'S EARTHLY CALLING NOT BEING THE HEAD OF THE NATIONS IN THE THEOCRACY OF THE WORLD. YOU NEED TO SURRENDER TO THE TRUTH AND QUIT POSTING DECEITFUL SCENARIOS AND UNTRUTHS ACCORDING TO THE WORD.

7. The least you could do is try to answer what the physical nation of Israel's purpose is and why there are at the head of the nation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Jerry Kelso

 

[BABerean2]

baberean2,

1.You're way off. The eternal covenant of the new covenant is a fact. It is conditioned by obedience and this is why Jesus said Repent for the KOH is at Hand! They were backslidden in Jesus day and they were punished for it as they have been in times past.

2. The generation in the tribulation is the jewish nation that will be backslidden and then give the hearts to God as a result of the 144,000 jewish witnesses and the 2 Witnesses which will be Elijah for a fact and the other will either be Enoch or Moses.

3. Malachi 4:5: BEHOLD, I WILL SEND YOU ELIJAH THE PROPHET BEFORE THE COMING OF THE GREAT AND DREADFUL DAY OF THE LORD: AND HE SHALL TURN THE HEART OF THE FATHERS TO THE CHILDREN, AND THE HEART OF THE CHILDREN TO THEIR FATHERS, LEST I COME AND SMITE THE EARTH WITH A CURSE.
LUKE 9:11; AND THEY ASKED HIM, SAYING, WHY SAY THE SCRIBES THAT ELIAS MUST FIRST COME? VERSE 12; AND HE ANSWERED AND TOLD THEM, ELIAS VERILY COMETH FIRST, AND RESTORETH ALL THINGS;

4 AND HOW IT IS WRITTEN OF THE SON OF MAN, THAT HE MUST SUFFER MANY THINGS, ABE BE SET AT NOUGHT. THIS SHOWS THAT ELIAS WHO IS ELIJAH WILL COME TO RESTORE AT ALL THINGS BEFORE THE DAY OF THE LORD WHICH IN MALACHI IS THE GREAT AND DREADFUL DAY OF THE LORD.

5. ELIJAH WILL HELP RESTORE THE NATION AND ORGANIZE THE TRIBE IDENTIFICATION TO THE PEOPLE AND PREPARE THEM TO REPENT AND HELP THEM PREPARE FOR THEIR KINGDOM COVENANT AS THE HEAD OF THE NATIONS.

6. THE ONLY CONFUSION IS YOU REMAINING IN YOUR FALSE NARRATIVE ABOUT ISRAEL'S EARTHLY CALLING NOT BEING THE HEAD OF THE NATIONS IN THE THEOCRACY OF THE WORLD. YOU NEED TO SURRENDER TO THE TRUTH AND QUIT POSTING DECEITFUL SCENARIOS AND UNTRUTHS ACCORDING TO THE WORD.

7. The least you could do is try to answer what the physical nation of Israel's purpose is and why there are at the head of the nation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Jerry Kelso

Jerry,

Jesus said that John the Baptist was the Elijah of His time.

John the Baptist did help restore his people by preparing them for the coming of Jesus.

Mat_17:10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?

Mat_17:11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.

Mat_17:12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.

.