Worried for the Church...

[Michie]

I remember.

What ever happened to the good ole days of arguing with reformationist over predestination. lol. Boy, those were much lighter days. Miss Shelby is probably the only one who knows what I'm talking about. I miss those day, life was simple then, lol.

 

[Michie]

But they are imperfectly united with the Church. And where does this leave Jesus' promise as the Church teaches it? And where does this leave the Church being free of error in her teachings?

certainly the Church claims that promise, and rightfully so. If the church departed from the faith, it wouldn't be the church.
(that's one reason why Protestants are not refered to as the Church.)

 

[benedictaoo]

That it was St. Peter confession that was the rock the the gates of hell can not come against not St. Peter, though interpretations can vary this seems to be the consensus. In the ECF they go back and forth on the meaning

I personally think we see this pseudonym. The Church will be presented by liberals and under cover secularists and they will lead many into the Church under false pretenses. Kinda like how new age in the 90's was being taught in seminaries and in RCIA.

 

[Michie]

You cannot go into the Church under false pretenses and know know at least the basics of what the Church teaches.

I personally think we see this pseudonym. The Church will be presented by liberals and under cover secularists and they will lead many into the Church under false pretenses. Kinda like how new age in the 90's was being taught in seminaries and in RCIA.

 

[topcare]

You mean Peter's faith? His recognition of Christ?

Yes

So if the Church is wrong then her teachings are not infallible are they?

Yes, that is what it would mean I guess.

 

[Michie]

Anybody heard the parable of the wheat and the tares?

 

[Armoured]

Seriously dude? The principle, that evil is abound in the world and the church could do a better job stopping it, does not apply unless there is mass murder and the destruction of an entire continent at hand?

If you're talking about recent history in 1947, yes, I'm pretty sure that that's when it applies.

 

[Michie]

Yes

That is the way every Church I went to before entering the RCC interpreted it as well.

Yes, that is what it would mean I guess.

Well that would also mean the Church is the body of believers. Not just the RCC alone that claims it is infallible in her teachings. That too, is what Protestants believe. Did I make a mistake by joining the RCC? Seems it would had been a lot of work for nothing if that is the case.

 

[benedictaoo]

You cannot go into the Church under false pretenses and know know at least the basics of what the Church teaches.

You want to bet money on that? RCIAs can, and have taught error. Seminarians have been taught error. Iv seen it first hand. 25 years ago I was taught Gods a woman and has breasts in a RCIA. There's a lot you don't know about.

 

[topcare]

Anybody heard the parable of the wheat and the tares?

I did. I learned it first in Sunday school and heard a few homilies

 

[pdudgeon]

But the teachings have not changed. Anybody that wants to join the Church under false impressions will find that out. I have a few stories from RCIA I could give you as an example.

right. they haven't changed. but one of the favorite 'proofs' against the church is that the beliefs have changed.
it's like the old question 'When did you stop beating your wife?"

the facts don't matter--what is supposed to matter (according to them) is the perception that the person under discussion is a wife beater.
why else would the question be asked if the person wasn't a wife beater, etc, etc, etc.

so whether the church changes or doen't change is really not the focus.
the true focus is the perception that the Church either has or will be changing.
it is the false hope, promulgated by the liberal press, that is driving this beast.

 

[Michie]

I don't claim to know everything but I know what I know based on my experience entering the church and what is taught in RCIA as I experienced. Just as valid as any wild story out there. That's the thing about RCIA in my experience, a bunch of do's and dont's. Nothing about God having breasts, etc. the inquirer bases their decision to move foward based on what the faith teaches and expects every Catholic to practice.

You want to bet money on that? RCIAs can, and have taught error. Seminarians have been taught error. Iv seen it first hand. 25 years ago I was taught Gods a woman and has breasts in a RCIA. There's a lot you don't know about.

 

[AmericanChristian91]

and that is why we are told that we are at fault for saying that homosexuality is not pleasing to God.

Hold on, I was not saying that it is the fault of those that say homosexuality is a sin, is the reason for straight sympathy for gay rights. But is is true certain anti-gay attitude/action has led to that sympathy. It is one thing to say homosexuality is a sin, and another thing to not only say that, but.....kick someone out of the home for being gay, call a homosexual cruel names, stick them in jail for same sex romance or make it illegal, murder someone for being gay. All those cruel things I have mentioned have stemmed from a very anti-gay attitude, which has fueled straight sympathy for gay rights. Just remember Im not saying all who oppose homosexuality fuel the flames of straights supporting gays, but certain extreme anti-gay forces have. And that is a fact.

 

[Michie]

So what are we supposed to do? Beyond standing up for the truth as it is taught by the Church? There has always been wolves amongst the sheep. Jesus has instruction as how to discipline within the Church but there are always going to be people that are not as they appear.

I did. I learned it first in Sunday school and heard a few homilies

 

[topcare]

That is the way every Church I went to before entering the RCC interpreted it as well.

Me too.

Well that would also mean the Church is the body of believers. Not just the RCC alone that claims it is infallible in her teachings. That too, is what Protestants believe. Did I make a mistake by joining the RCC? Seems it would had been a lot of work for nothing if that is the case.

The way I see it from their (EO, OO, Etc.) views as I study more that the keys were given to every Apostle and that St. Peter is just first among equals and not over all. Really I need to start a thread in EO about it and link to it. If I was to summarize what I researched about the EO position I would say that it was St. Peter's confession and authority was given to all apostles not just St. Peter.

On edit: Here is the thread I created http://www.christianforums.com/threads/question-about-matthew-16-18.7911328/

 

[Michie]

I would be very interested in that. Let me know. I'd be curious as to what that means today. I have thought during reading Scripture that Peter and Paul's differences reminded me an awful lot of the differences of the RCC and believers outside the RCC.

Me too.



The way I see it from their (EO, OO, Etc.) views as I study more that the keys were given to every Apostle and that St. Peter is just first among equals and not over all. Really I need to start a thread in EO about it and link to it. If I was to summarize what I researched about the EO position I would say that it was St. Peter's confession and authority was given to all apostles not just St. Peter.

 

[pdudgeon]

But they are imperfectly united with the Church. And where does this leave Jesus' promise as the Church teaches it? And where does this leave the Church being free of error in her teachings?

imperfectly united....that's a wonderful topic on it's own.
but basically when two people are united they are supposed to be as one.
and when they are imperfectly united the are in discord with each other, not acting a one.
and thus they are vulnerable to outside influences instead of presenting a united front.

the church is free of error in her teachings.
that is what separates all the other chuches from the Catholic church, and from each other.

they cannot claim to be free from error because they separated from the church that was free from error.
they thought that they were right, but by separating, they proved that they themselves were in error.

that still happens in a lot of families today.

 

[Jared R]

Regarding Christ's promise to the Church... I think a lot about the fact that at one point there were more Arian bishops than orthodox. That's a very sobering thought. The ship will never sink, but it sure can take on water. I do believe the Church is in a serious crisis, the extent of which we are only just beginning to understand. The manipulation of the synod on the family last year woke a lot of people up I believe.

 

[Michie]

Seems to be a lot of waffling in this thread. Nobody is addressing any specific points on anything really. It is quite confusing.

imperfectly united....that's a wonderful topic on it's own.
but basically when two people are united they are supposed to be as one.
and when they are imperfectly united the are in discord with each other, not acting a one.
and thus they are vulnerable to outside influences instead of presenting a united front.

the church is free of error in her teachings.
that is what separates all the other chuches from the Catholic church, and from each other.

they cannot claim to be free from error because they separated from the church that was free from error.
they thought that they were right, but by separating, they proved that they themselves were in error.

that still happens in a lot of families today.

 

[Michie]

Thank you Jared for making your presence known in this thread. You always cut through the mess. I'd appreciate if you would read my posts and help out if you can. I know you'll know my intent.

Regarding Christ's promise to the Church... I think a lot about the fact that at one point there were more Arian bishops than orthodox. That's a very sobering thought. The ship will never sink, but it sure can take on water. I do believe the Church is in a serious crisis, the extent of which we are only just beginning to understand. The manipulation of the synod on the family last year woke a lot of people up I believe.