Worried for the Church...

[Leevo]

Hey guys, something has been on my mind lately concerning the Church that has me worried...

It might not be in the next year, 5 years or even the next 50 years, but it seems with the growing number of liberal Catholics and Catholic priests, that the church is headed for a compromise on sound doctrine... Especially concerning homosexuality... I have seen far too many openly gay Catholics, and supporters of gay marriage by Catholics for my taste. I can't see how one can consider themselves a follower of Christ without adhering to what he taught. (Not Judging, just stating my opinion) It has me worried that what seems to be one of the few church's that still hold to biblical truth on this subject, will eventually fall to the pressure posed by liberals. What do you guys think? This has had me concerned recently because I know that several big church's have fallen, such as the Episcopal Church, ECLA, etc. Even Pope Francis seems a little too comfortable with it. I know he does hold to the church's doctrine but with the recent story about the meeting between him and Kim Davis receiving such fierce opposition from liberals, and the story that had the Vatican under attack by liberals for firing the priest that came out as gay (who had a partner, which compromised his vows, but they conveniently forget that part), the Vatican seems to be trying to appeal to the masses a bit too much and I think that is starting us down a path that I don't want to follow. Am I crazy?

 

[pdudgeon]

Hey guys, something has been on my mind lately concerning the Church that has me worried...

It might not be in the next year, 5 years or even the next 50 years, but it seems with the growing number of liberal Catholics and Catholic priests, that the church is headed for a compromise on sound doctrine... Especially concerning homosexuality... I have seen far too many openly gay Catholics, and supporters of gay marriage by Catholics for my taste. I can't see how one can consider themselves a follower of Christ without adhering to what he taught. (Not Judging, just stating my opinion) It has me worried that what seems to be one of the few church's that still hold to biblical truth on this subject, will eventually fall to the pressure posed by liberals. What do you guys think? This has had me concerned recently because I know that several big church's have fallen, such as the Episcopal Church, ECLA, etc. Even Pope Francis seems a little too comfortable with it. I know he does hold to the church's doctrine but with the recent story about the meeting between him and Kim Davis receiving such fierce opposition from liberals, and the story that had the Vatican under attack by liberals for firing the priest that came out as gay (who had a partner, which compromised his vows, but they conveniently forget that part), the Vatican seems to be trying to appeal to the masses a bit too much and I think that is starting us down a path that I don't want to follow. Am I crazy?

There is a difference.
the Vatican is appealing to those in sin and who are repentant, to come home. Those people still know what sin is.
the liberal news media is on the side of sin (not surprisingly!)
so that's why they twist and spread these stories, and attack those who support the church.

those in society who are of a liberal bent pick up on those news stories, twist them so that they believe
that the church will change to accomodate their sin, and flock to churches who either have changed
(Methodist, Episcopal) or who are vulnerable to change because of dropping membership.

fortunately the Catholic church as a whole is not vulnerable.
But it's not the first time in history that the Church has been attacked on all sides and still managed not to
utterly fall. The UK is a good example of this.
Even though the Church was attacked, Catholicism still carries on in England, Scotland, Wales, and Ireland.
OBOB is witness to this.

So don't be afraid of the liberals.
God has already written the ending to that story,
and for them it's not a pretty outcome.

 

[Leevo]

There is a difference.
the Vatican is appealing to those in sin and who are repentant, to come home. Those people still know what sin is.
the liberal news media is on the side of sin (not surprisingly!)
so that's why they twist and spread these stories, and attack those who support the church.

those in society who are of a liberal bent pick up on those news stories, twist them so that they believe
that the church will change to accomodate their sin, and flock to churches who either have changed
(Methodist, Episcopal) or who are vulnerable to change because of dropping membership.

fortunately the Catholic church as a whole is not vulnerable.
But it's not the first time in history that the Church has been attacked on all sides and still managed not to
utterly fall. The UK is a good example of this.
Even though the Church was attacked, Catholicism still carries on in England, Scotland, Wales, and Ireland.
OBOB is witness to this.

So don't be afraid of the liberals.
God has already written the ending to that story,
and for them it's not a pretty outcome.

Thank you! Your words bring comfort to my heart.

 

[Armoured]

Hey guys, something has been on my mind lately concerning the Church that has me worried...

It might not be in the next year, 5 years or even the next 50 years, but it seems with the growing number of liberal Catholics and Catholic priests, that the church is headed for a compromise on sound doctrine... Especially concerning homosexuality... I have seen far too many openly gay Catholics, and supporters of gay marriage by Catholics for my taste. I can't see how one can consider themselves a follower of Christ without adhering to what he taught. (Not Judging, just stating my opinion) It has me worried that what seems to be one of the few church's that still hold to biblical truth on this subject, will eventually fall to the pressure posed by liberals. What do you guys think? This has had me concerned recently because I know that several big church's have fallen, such as the Episcopal Church, ECLA, etc. Even Pope Francis seems a little too comfortable with it. I know he does hold to the church's doctrine but with the recent story about the meeting between him and Kim Davis receiving such fierce opposition from liberals, and the story that had the Vatican under attack by liberals for firing the priest that came out as gay (who had a partner, which compromised his vows, but they conveniently forget that part), the Vatican seems to be trying to appeal to the masses a bit too much and I think that is starting us down a path that I don't want to follow. Am I crazy?

On one hand, I really don't see why the church's stance on homosexuality should really be of that much concern to anyone but homosexuals. On the other hand, if the church ever does make a compromise you can't personally stand for, no matter how unlikely, I'm sure there will plenty of other denominations that would still condemn homosexuals enough to make you happy.

 

[Leevo]

On one hand, I really don't see why the church's stance on homosexuality should really be of that much concern to anyone but homosexuals. On the other hand, if the church ever does make a compromise you can't personally stand for, no matter how unlikely, I'm sure there will plenty of other denominations that would still condemn homosexuals enough to make you happy.

I am not looking for condemnation of homosexuals, I am just hoping that the Church will never be too scared to call it what it is, sin. However, the church should remain a hospital for sinners while still telling them what their doing is wrong, instead of "it's ok" like the liberal denominations are.

 

[Armoured]

I am not looking for condemnation of homosexuals, I am just hoping that the Church will never be too scared to call it what it is, sin. However, the church should remain a hospital for sinners while still telling them what their doing is wrong, instead of "it's ok" like the liberal denominations are.

Well, it still says that homosexual activity is sinful in the catechism, and I don't see lot of move to change it. Note there's nothing inherently sinful about homosexuality, per se.

 

[Leevo]

Well, it still says that homosexual activity is sinful in the catechism, and I don't see lot of move to change it. Note there's nothing inherently sinful about homosexuality, per se.

I dont see a huge move to change it yet, but I feel it is likely on the way. The temptation isn't inherently sinful. The act is though.

 

[Armoured]

I dont see a huge move to change it yet, but I feel it is likely on the way. The temptation isn't inherently sinful. The act is though.

Why do you feel it's "on the way"?

 

[Leevo]

Why do you feel it's "on the way"?

Because so many churchs have fallen to it recently. Or are changing their stance on it to be open to interpretation. Also, with the increasing amount of liberal priests and laity alike I figure its only a matter of time before the largest church in the world is pressured into something as well.

 

[pdudgeon]

Well, it still says that homosexual activity is sinful in the catechism, and I don't see lot of move to change it. Note there's nothing inherently sinful about homosexuality, per se.

and that right there ^^^is the first step down a crooked pathway.
homosexuality is not what God ordained when He created man and woman.
homosexuality is what came about as a result of sin entering the world,
(along with a lot of other stuff like illness, disease, and death).

 

[Armoured]

Because so many churchs have fallen to it recently. Or are changing their stance on it to be open to interpretation. Also, with the increasing amount of liberal priests and laity alike I figure its only a matter of time before the largest church in the world is pressured into something as well.

Have you ever known the Catholic church to change doctrine from social pressure?

 

[Armoured]

and that right there ^^^is the first step down a crooked pathway.
homosexuality is not what God ordained when He created man and woman.
homosexuality is what came about as a result of sin entering the world,
(along with a lot of other stuff like illness, disease, and death).

Um... huh? What's that got to do with anything? Are you suggesting that merely being homosexual is sinful?

 

[pdudgeon]

Because so many churchs have fallen to it recently. Or are changing their stance on it to be open to interpretation. Also, with the increasing amount of liberal priests and laity alike I figure its only a matter of time before the largest church in the world is pressured into something as well.

the Church is a mighty fortress that shelters those in need of shelter, and stand against the winds of change.
don't let all that spear-rattling scare you from believing in your heart what you already know.
Take courage--Jesus has already been through everything that men could do to Him
and He rose triumphant from the grave, to life everlasting.

 

[Leevo]

Have you ever known the Catholic church to change doctrine from social pressure?

Not as of yet. However I am unsure if they have faced the amount of pressure that could be placed on them this time. Also, with many priests backing up the opposition, it may force them to do something, not change necessarily but something.

 

[Leevo]

Have you ever known the Catholic church to change doctrine from social pressure?

Not as of yet. However I am unsure if they have faced the amount of pressure that could be placed on them this time. Also, with many priests backing up the opposition, it may force them to do something, not change necessarily but something.

Note: this is mostly me speculating based on recent events. Hopefully this never happens, but the fact that it could is what has me worried.

 

[pdudgeon]

Um... huh? What's that got to do with anything? Are you suggesting that merely being homosexual is sinful?

thinking that there is no harm in homosexuality itself is the problem.
that way of viewing homosexuality as harmless negates God's view,
and sets His whole plan of creation at naught, right from the beginning.

As a sin against the body it twists the beauty of what God created and intended as good and life-giving
into something that is designed for other purposes.

 

[pdudgeon]

Not as of yet. However I am unsure if they have faced the amount of pressure that could be placed on them this time. Also, with many priests backing up the opposition, it may force them to do something, not change necessarily but something.

Note: this is mostly me speculating based on recent events. Hopefully this never happens, but the fact that it could is what has me worried.

then be careful, on guard, and alert to what your eyes see, and what your ears hear.

the eyes and the ears are the only two gateways to the body that have no natural defenses.

As such whatever we see and hear goes straight to the brain and lodges there,
ready to be recalled by worry and doubt; tools which are activated against us by satan himself.

against that subterfuge we have the armor of God.
so if a person were to be attacked by worry or doubt, then it's time to 'armor up'!

 

[Armoured]

thinking that there is no harm in homosexuality itself is the problem.
that way of viewing homosexuality as harmless negates God's view,
and sets His whole plan of creation at naught, right from the beginning.

As a sin against the body it twists the beauty of what God created and intended as good and life-giving
into something that is designed for other purposes.

So you know better than the catechism, huh? good to know.

 

[Leevo]

then be careful, on guard, and alert to what your eyes see, and what your ears hear.

the eyes and the ears are the only two gateways to the body that have no natural defenses.

As such whatever we see and hear goes straight to the brain and lodges there,
ready to be recalled by worry and doubt; tools which are activated against us by satan himself.

against that subterfuge we have the armor of God.
so if a person were to be attacked by worry or doubt, then it's time to 'armor up'!

Amen. Thank you!

 

[seekingsolace]

On one hand, I really don't see why the church's stance on homosexuality should really be of that much concern to anyone but homosexuals. On the other hand, if the church ever does make a compromise you can't personally stand for, no matter how unlikely, I'm sure there will plenty of other denominations that would still condemn homosexuals enough to make you happy.

Destruction from within is a concern for all people.

Condemnation of the sin, is not condemnation of the sinner. The person responsible for their actions comes under judgment through God. That being said, if we cater to the modern world view and allow people to believe it is not a sin. Then we also come under condemnation.

It is not hate, prejudice or judgment to acknowledge this; they are just the tools pro-gay activists use to accuse falsely.