why do jews reject jesus?

[Goatee]

I've been more than willing to walk though the links with Christians and point out where I see flaws. You know what almost always happens? "YOU'RE JUST BLIND" in the end. I have a bias toward my beliefs, yes, but I will go though the texts with Christians.

Look, its great to hear your views. I appreciate the time you have given. I am not arguing with you. Just having a discussion. No hard feelings at all!!

 

[LoAmmi]

Zechariah 9:9: “Rejoice greatly, O Daughter of Zion! Shout, Daughter of Jerusalem! See, your king comes to you, righteous and having salvation, gentle and riding on a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a donkey.”

Messianic verse, no question. Jesus may, in fact, have ridden in Jerusalem on a donkey. Matthew has him riding in on two as if the circus were coming to town, but that's just something I find funny.

.” Psalm 22:16-18: “Dogs have surrounded me; a band of evil men has encircled me, they have pierced my hands and my feet. I can count all my bones; people stare and gloat over me. They divide my garments among them and cast lots for my clothing.”

There is a translation dispute here where the Hebrew would go along with "like a lion at my hands and feet" and not pierced, but this one to me isn't a Messianic prophecy. There is nothing in the context speaking of the future, speaking about the future King, or anything like that. This is David speaking about his own life. David was harassed his entire life.

 

[Goatee]

Messianic verse, no question. Jesus may, in fact, have ridden in Jerusalem on a donkey. Matthew has him riding in on two as if the circus were coming to town, but that's just something I find funny.

Zechariah 9:9New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (NRSVCE)
The Coming Ruler of God’s People
9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter Zion!
Shout aloud, O daughter Jerusalem!
Lo, your king comes to you;
triumphant and victorious is he,
humble and riding on a donkey,
on a colt, the foal of a donkey.

2 animals mentioned. A Donkey and a Colt

 

[LoAmmi]

Zechariah 9:9New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (NRSVCE)
The Coming Ruler of God’s People
9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter Zion!
Shout aloud, O daughter Jerusalem!
Lo, your king comes to you;
triumphant and victorious is he,
humble and riding on a donkey,
on a colt, the foal of a donkey.

2 animals mentioned. A Donkey and a Colt

No, there are not two animals mentioned. That's an idiom used in the text of the Tanakh. It's clarifying what it is. Luke got it right; there's only one animal. This isn't even really up for dispute or discussion. Christian commentaries agree that it is referencing one animal there. It is saying that the animal will be young.

 

[Goatee]

No, there are not two animals mentioned. That's an idiom used in the text of the Tanakh. It's clarifying what it is. Luke got it right; there's only one animal. This isn't even really up for dispute or discussion. Christian commentaries agree that it is referencing one animal there. It is saying that the animal will be young.

Some say it is 2.

http://www.apologeticspress.org/apcontent.aspx?category=6&article=773

http://taylormarshall.com/2014/04/did-christ-ride-2-donkeys-or-1-donkey-on-palm-sunday.html

And another interpretation:

http://www.errancy.com/on-how-many-donkeys-did-jesus-ride-into-jerusalem/

Open for debate but obviously only one Donkey was ridden at a time!

 

[LoAmmi]

Some say it is 2.

Ok. To put it in a way that would be more common:

A man will ride on a horse, even a pony, the child of a horse.

The man is riding one animal, not two. We are clarifying that it is a pony, not an adult horse.

 

[LoAmmi]

Regardless of the donkeys, I don't see any reason to dispute a Jewish man rode into Jerusalem on a donkey. However, that hardly marked every Jewish man who did that as the Messiah. If it did, I could go to Jerusalem today, find a donkey, ride though the gates and be proud that I'm one step closer to being the Messiah.

 

[Goatee]

Regardless of the donkeys, I don't see any reason to dispute a Jewish man rode into Jerusalem on a donkey. However, that hardly marked every Jewish man who did that as the Messiah. If it did, I could go to Jerusalem today, find a donkey, ride though the gates and be proud that I'm one step closer to being the Messiah.

I know.

Thing is, you believe the OT

I believe the OT and the NT.

 

[LoAmmi]

I know.

Thing is, you believe the OT

I believe the OT and the NT.

Indeed. But if someone wants to convince Jews to believe (thread is Jews reject Jesus), they have to show why we should trust the NT and show that the prophecies in the Tanakh are fulfilled in the New Testament. It is my contention that the major prophecies we were given to identify the Messiah have not been fulfilled. World peace, universal knowledge of G-d, the Exiles returning to Israel. That hasn't happened. Objectively hasn't happened. Unless you wish to debate that we do currently have world peace. Doubtful.

So why should I believe you that the Messiah has come when those prophecies, objectively, are not fulfilled?

 

[Goatee]

Indeed. But if someone wants to convince Jews to believe (thread is Jews reject Jesus), they have to show why we should trust the NT and show that the prophecies in the Tanakh are fulfilled in the New Testament. It is my contention that the major prophecies we were given to identify the Messiah have not been fulfilled. World peace, universal knowledge of G-d, the Exiles returning to Israel. That hasn't happened. Objectively hasn't happened. Unless you wish to debate that we do currently have world peace. Doubtful.

So why should I believe you that the Messiah has come when those prophecies, objectively, are not fulfilled?

Thats fair comment.

I believe because of what the NT tells me.

Remember that in the Old Testament the Jews were forever going against Gods wishes, not believing in prophets etc etc!

 

[LoAmmi]

Thats fair comment.

I believe because of what the NT tells me.

Remember that in the Old Testament the Jews were forever going against Gods wishes, not believing in prophets etc etc!

Not all Jews. When Elijah despairs that all have gone over to Baal, the Lord corrects him and says that there are some thousands that have never worshiped Baal that He is keeping for Himself. It was never all of us. Some stayed loyal, some kept Torah, some continued to only worship Him.

Also, which prophets weren't believed? I have also see that all the prophets were killed but I've never seen that in the Tanakh either.

 

[Goatee]

Not all Jews. When Elijah despairs that all have gone over to Baal, the Lord corrects him and says that there are some thousands that have never worshiped Baal that He is keeping for Himself. It was never all of us. Some stayed loyal, some kept Torah, some continued to only worship Him.

Also, which prophets weren't believed? I have also see that all the prophets were killed but I've never seen that in the Tanakh either.

Matthew 23:37New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (NRSVCE)
The Lament over Jerusalem
37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often have I desired to gather your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you were not willing!

NT i know!

 

[LoAmmi]

Well, that's just asserting it. Which prophets were killed? Isaiah? Ezekiel? Jeremiah? If there's no evidence, it's just yet another attack in the NT.

You'd think the murder of all these prophets would be something worthy of being reported.

David was a prophet. He died in his bed. We didn't kill him.

 

[Zstar]

Amazing how the Jewish are brought together ... political ... a sign ... one in field taken another left ...

 

[Goatee]

Well, that's just asserting it. Which prophets were killed? Isaiah? Ezekiel? Jeremiah? If there's no evidence, it's just yet another attack in the NT.

You'd think the murder of all these prophets would be something worthy of being reported.

David was a prophet. He died in his bed. We didn't kill him.

I know. NT is the Word of God for me!!

 

[LoAmmi]

I know. NT is the Word of God for me!!

But it is clearly wrong about that point, isn't it? We don't have records of all or even most of the prophets being killed. The ones we see die tend to die of old age or some other natural cause. Elijah is taken up in a whirlwind. Elisha dies naturally. Samuel died naturally and all of Israel mourned for his passing. He wasn't stoned or killed. He was mourned. If the NT is the word of G-d, why does it make this claim when the Tanakh records otherwise?

 

[Goatee]

But it is clearly wrong about that point, isn't it? We don't have records of all or even most of the prophets being killed. The ones we see die tend to die of old age or some other natural cause. Elijah is taken up in a whirlwind. Elisha dies naturally. Samuel died naturally and all of Israel mourned for his passing. He wasn't stoned or killed. He was mourned. If the NT is the word of G-d, why does it make this claim when the Tanakh records otherwise?

But most of the Prophets deaths are not recorded in the OT.

 

[LoAmmi]

But most of the Prophets deaths are not recorded in the OT.

Wouldn't you think one of the later prophets would have recorded that Israel had gone so far astray that they were killing the Prophets of the Lord? Malachi for example? It's important, very important. It would show not only a lack of following Torah but a murderous rage at HaShem Himself. This isn't recorded. There's not even a Jewish tradition recorded about those who strayed away from HaShem killing prophets.It's only recorded in the story trying to convince everybody that Jews killed Jesus. That's a big coincidence. But you're going to believe it because it's in a text you implicitly trust. I refuse to believe it because it's backed up by absolutely nothing.

 

[Goatee]

Wouldn't you think one of the later prophets would have recorded that Israel had gone so far astray that they were killing the Prophets of the Lord? Malachi for example? It's important, very important. It would show not only a lack of following Torah but a murderous rage at HaShem Himself. This isn't recorded. There's not even a Jewish tradition recorded about those who strayed away from HaShem killing prophets.It's only recorded in the story trying to convince everybody that Jews killed Jesus. That's a big coincidence. But you're going to believe it because it's in a text you implicitly trust. I refuse to believe it because it's backed up by absolutely nothing.

Why do you believe in just the OT then? Tradition? Proofs? Why?

 

[gord44]

Why do you believe in just the OT then? Tradition? Proofs? Why?

Discernment.