Student Was So Offended by How Her School Pushed ‘Christian Beliefs’ That She’s Suing Them

[Aldebaran]

You don't even understand the theory you want to exclude from the science curriculum.

So now it's a "theory" again? I'm sorry, but your arguments just aren't scientific at all.

 

[The Cadet]

So the "theory" of evolution is now a "fact"? Did they just give up on trying to prove their theory and redefine it as a fact so nobody could challenge it anymore?
Oh well, I guess that's what we get for handing our kids over to the government to be educated....

Evolution is a theory and a fact; the former in the scientific sense and the latter in the colloquial and scientific sense. You seem to not know what the scientific definition of either is.

 

[Aldebaran]

Evolution is a theory and a fact; the former in the scientific sense and the latter in the colloquial and scientific sense. You seem to not know what the scientific definition of either is.

I know that there's not sufficient evidence to consider it a fact.

 

[Armoured]

I know that there's not sufficient evidence to consider it a fact.

In absolute terms, there's not enough evidence to consider anything a "fact". But that's a very postmodern idea. For all practical intents and purposes, however, evolution is as much a fact as gravity and taxes. Want to play semantics over the precise definition of "fact"? Be my guest. Just don't try to pretend that the massive weight of evidence is not supportive of evolutionary theory, or that somehow not being a "fact" somehow makes it inaccurate.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

I know that there's not sufficient evidence to consider it a fact.

Is gravity a fact?

 

[Aldebaran]

In absolute terms, there's not enough evidence to consider anything a "fact". But that's a very postmodern idea. For all practical intents and purposes, however, evolution is as much a fact as gravity and taxes. Want to play semantics over the precise definition of "fact"? Be my guest. Just don't try to pretend that the massive weight of evidence is not supportive of evolutionary theory, or that somehow not being a "fact" somehow makes it inaccurate.

If teachers are in school telling children that evolution is a fact, then they are essentially also telling them that God did not create the world as is taught in the bible, and saying that it is false, as both cannot be facts. Do you really think it's the place of school teachers to be telling them that the child's religious beliefs are false?

 

[keith99]

That was pre U.S. constitution, the constitution negated anything in the state constitutions that required a religious test, and by association any official state religion. The fact that they didn't explicitly forbid the states from doing it didn't mean they could just flagrantly ignore the constitutional principles made clear.

You error as badly as Brewmama in the opposite direction. That explicitly applied only to Federal offices until after the 14th amendment.

 

[Hank77]

What does something coming from nothing have to do with evolution?

All things have to have started from something, even if it was a piece of dust. But where did that piece of dust come from? Where did the smallest molecule come from? How was it created?
My problem is not with evolution per se but with how it is taught. It is trying to answer the question of how all life came into existence and developed into all the different diverse life forms, so be it. But when you get down to the nitty gritty it has no real answers for how life began and never will. I don't care how small a particle or cell form you get it to, it had to have come from nothing. Explain that if you can.

Like God told the scientist when he said he could create a man from clay just like God. OK, God said, go for it. When the scientist picked up a handful of clay, God said, wait a minute, get your own dirt.

 

[TLK Valentine]

If teachers are in school telling children that evolution is a fact, then they are essentially also telling them that God did not create the world as is taught in the bible, and saying that it is false, as both cannot be facts. Do you really think it's the place of school teachers to be telling them that the child's religious beliefs are false?

If their religious beliefs are indeed false, then absolutely.

The one disadvantage of living in a democracy is that one tends to get the idea that everything is a democracy -- including truth. Except truth is not a democracy. Your beliefs aren't special; they're just wrong.

 

[keith99]

If teachers are in school telling children that evolution is a fact, then they are essentially also telling them that God did not create the world as is taught in the bible, and saying that it is false, as both cannot be facts. Do you really think it's the place of school teachers to be telling them that the child's religious beliefs are false?

Sure, just as I would expect teachers to teach that pi is approximately 3.1415 rather than exactly 3.

 

[Aldebaran]

If their religious beliefs are indeed false, then absolutely.

Does that apply to teaching that homosexuality is wrong as well?

The one disadvantage of living in a democracy is that one tends to get the idea that everything is a democracy -- including truth. Except truth is not a democracy. Your beliefs aren't special; they're just wrong.

Good thing you aren't the ultimate decider of what's right and wrong.

 

[Armoured]

Good thing you aren't the ultimate decider of what's right and wrong.

Nor are you.

 

[bhsmte]

Does my doctor give me a diagnoses based on evolutionary theory? Does my pharmacist consider evolutionary theory when determining drug interactions? Be careful now, I can pick up the phone and call either my son or my daughter-in-law to validate anything you may try to insinuate.
I have never said that there are not any theories that are beneficial or even necessary in many sciences but evolutionary theory doesn't happen to be one of them. But consider DNA, it is very beneficial to life and quality of life, as we are seeing very quickly. In fact, I believe that is where the scientific answers will be found that evolution has never been able to answer. DNA just may disprove many of the essential arguments for evolutionary theory.

I wish I could remember the specifics of this example but I can only give a rough description from memory right now.
Just what is in that little package of DNA that allows a species of fish to mutate from a small mouthed, large tailed fish to a large mouthed, small tailed fish and then back again, in the space of just a few years, depending on the predators in the lake?

http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/medicine_01

"Medical science is continually making rapid advances: new medications and treatments are developed and introduced at a rapid pace, but we can better take advantage of these advances by taking evolution into account.

Like all biological systems, both disease-causing organisms and their victims evolve. Understanding evolution can make a big difference in how we treat disease. The evolution of disease-causing organisms may outpace our ability to invent new treatments, but studying the evolution of drug resistance can help us slow it. Learning about the evolutionary origins of diseases may provide clues about how to treat them. And considering the basic processes of evolution can help us understand the roots of genetic diseases.

The case studies in this section illuminate how evolutionary approaches can make a difference in the world of medicine."

 

[TLK Valentine]

Does that apply to teaching that homosexuality is wrong as well?

How can an opinion be factually right or wrong?

Good thing you aren't the ultimate decider of what's right and wrong.

Good thing nobody is.

 

[Aldebaran]

How can an opinion be factually right or wrong?

Give it some thought.

Good thing nobody is.

The truth is. That's why leftists like to believe there is no such thing as truth.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Give it some thought.

Opinions can only be "wrong" if the facts on which they are based are incorrect.

The truth is. That's why leftists like to believe there is no such thing as truth.

Any "truth" that needs to be defended with lies is not a truth worth defending.

 

[Aldebaran]

Any "truth" that needs to be defended with lies is not a truth worth defending.

Is there a truth in particular you're referring to?

 

[Armoured]

Is there a truth in particular you're referring to?

It's a pretty unambiguous statement.

 

[Aldebaran]

Any "truth" that needs to be defended with lies is not a truth worth defending.

Is something you don't personally believe automatically a lie?

 

[muichimotsu]

Who writes the laws, schools or Congress? Tell me exactly how the schools are able to violate something that only Congress can do.

No matter. The government has no place in the schools anyway. They should be turned over to the states who can teach religion in them or not as they see fit.

School is still a public institution when funded by taxpayers, so there is no judicial basis to favor the majority when it would infringe on minority rights.

State government is still government, the same restrictions apply by incorporation and the supremacy clause