Student Was So Offended by How Her School Pushed ‘Christian Beliefs’ That She’s Suing Them

[Larniavc]

A person's core beliefs are also the backbone of their psychology. Should psychology not be taught then?

A persons core beliefs would have no effect on their ability to study Psychology. As it is a science it is core belief independent.

 

[Larniavc]

Oh? Did it get changed again? So what did we evolve from now?
For being an "established scientific fact", it certainly changes a lot.

You missed the point: it's not ToE that has changed at all in this case. It is your knowledge of ToE that is so profoundly lacking that you would say that humans came from monkeys.

This is high school stuff: school children know that humans did not come from monkeys. What I'm saying is that you are wrong; very wrong and wriggling and whining about how science re evaluates it's position when faced with new information will not cloud the fact that you have displayed you utter and complete ignorance of ToE.

Well done, your high school science teacher would be so proud.

 

[Hank77]

Not sure how well you understand scientific theories, but it appears to be not much from the context of your posts.

And by the way, whether you realize it or not, you rely on scientific theories everyday of your life, in a multitude of ways.

And I have made no such claims.
However, if evolution [which leaves out the possibility of intelligent design] is taught in the public school system, then intelligent design should be taught as well. Neither one can be scientifically proven. I personally believe that this is reason enough that neither one should be taught in the K-12 public school system. Now I would agree that maybe a school could have an elective class for high school seniors that are interested in evolutionary theory.
You may not consider ones spiritual beliefs to be important in the developing child but the overwhelming percentage of the populous do, including many different faiths.
I don't want to push my beliefs on your child and I don't want yours pushed on my child. I think that is an equitable solution and fair compromise.

 

[bhsmte]

And I have made no such claims.
However, if evolution [which leaves out the possibility of intelligent design] is taught in the public school system, then intelligent design should be taught as well. Neither one can be scientifically proven. I personally believe that this is reason enough that neither one should be taught in the K-12 public school system. Now I would agree that maybe a school could have an elective class for high school seniors that are interested in evolutionary theory.
You may not consider ones spiritual beliefs to be important in the developing child but the overwhelming percentage of the populous do, including many different faiths.
I don't want to push my beliefs on your child and I don't want yours pushed on my child. I think that is an equitable solution and fair compromise.

Well, if you want the low down on why ID is not allowed in science class in public schools, google the dover trial and you can read the transcripts of the entire trial, in which the ID folks, were trying to make the case that ID should be taught in science class.

It was an embarrassing moment for the ID folks, when their prize witness (Michael Behe) had to admit under oath, that if ID was considered real science, then astrology would also be considered real science. A conservative christian judge saw through it all, and ruled that ID was biblical creationism wrapped up in different clothing and should not be allowed in science class.

Of course, no one is stopping the ID folks from showing that ID meets the criteria of real science and if they do, then it will be considered real science.

Until then, you can teach it to your kids in church and at home, all you want.

 

[Hank77]

Until then, you can teach it to your kids in church and at home, all you want.

Until science can prove how something, anything, can be created from nothing, all you have is a theory that is not anymore scientific than intelligent design.

 

[bhsmte]

Until science can prove how something, anything, can be created from nothing, all you have is a theory that is not anymore scientific than intelligent design.

Just another example, of how you do not understand the theory of evolution.

Can you point out, where the theory states something comes from nothing?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

And I have made no such claims.
However, if evolution [which leaves out the possibility of intelligent design] is taught in the public school system, then intelligent design should be taught as well. Neither one can be scientifically proven.

I personally believe that this is reason enough that neither one should be taught in the K-12 public school system. Now I would agree that maybe a school could have an elective class for high school seniors that are interested in evolutionary theory.

You are undermining education. Please stop.

I don't want to push my beliefs on your child and I don't want yours pushed on my child. I think that is an equitable solution and fair compromise.

We aren't talking about beliefs, but facts.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Until science can prove how something, anything, can be created from nothing, all you have is a theory that is not anymore scientific than intelligent design.

You don't even understand the theory you want to exclude from the science curriculum.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

Who writes the laws, schools or Congress? Tell me exactly how the schools are able to violate something that only Congress can do.

No matter. The government has no place in the schools anyway. They should be turned over to the states who can teach religion in them or not as they see fit.

No they can't.

States have to follow the Constitution. That's why it's there. That's why we have gay and interracial marriage despite the various states that opposed it. Public schools do belong to the state and the state has to comply with regulations set by both the state board of education and the federal Department of Education.

Here's a quick word from them about religious practices in public schools.

The guidance clarifies the rights of students to pray in public schools. As stated in the guidance, "...the First Amendment forbids religious activity that is sponsored by the government but protects religious activity that is initiated by private individuals" such as students. Therefore, "[a]mong other things, students may read their Bibles or other scriptures, say grace before meals, and pray or study religious materials with fellow students during recess, the lunch hour, or other noninstructional time to the same extent that they may engage in nonreligious activities." Public schools should not be hostile to the religious rights of their students and their families.
​

All pretty good stuff so far....

At the same time, school officials may not "compel students to participate in prayer or other religious activities." Nor may teachers, school administrators and other school employees, when acting in their official capacities as representatives of the state, encourage or discourage prayer, or participate in such activities with students.​

https://www2.ed.gov/policy/gen/guid/religionandschools/letter_20030207.html

​

 

[bhsmte]

Until science can prove how something, anything, can be created from nothing, all you have is a theory that is not anymore scientific than intelligent design.

When you go to the doctor, do you give them advice on how to use germ theory in how they practice medicine?

 

[GoldenBoy89]

Move to another state or change the laws by changing the politicians. That was why the states were to have the power, not the feds. So you would have real choices in how the states were run. Under the Constitution, California can be Communist if they want, as long as they pay for it themselves. Every state should be sovereign in its own territory.

I prefer that we be one country and not a loosely tied union of 50 nations. If I have religious freedom in California, I should have the same freedom in New Jersey. That's what makes this one, indivisible nation.

People love to talk about State's rights as if that hasn't been obsolete since the civil war.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

Actually by definition we evolved from monkey's this is a stupid argument, because the animal at the split between human and monkey lineages would be by definition a monkey since old world and new world monkey's split off before we did.

Well, that's what I get for not being as versed in evolutionary theory as I probably should be. I blame public schools.

 

[The Cadet]

Until science can prove how something, anything, can be created from nothing, all you have is a theory that is not anymore scientific than intelligent design.

What does something coming from nothing have to do with evolution?

 

[brewmama]

They don't auto update, strictly speaking. I contributed a bit extra: the whole "no religious test" clause, for example.

The point remains that taking the constitution purely at face value is poor jurisprudence.

Right. You need genius judges to "interpret" it to get your pet causes pushed down the people's throat, undemocratically, hence the "bastardization".

http://www.heritage.org/constitution/#!/articles/6/essays/135/religious-test

 

[GoldenBoy89]

Right. You need genius judges to "interpret" it to get your pet causes pushed down the people's throat, undemocratically, hence the "bastardization".

http://www.heritage.org/constitution/#!/articles/6/essays/135/religious-test

Well, that is their job, after all.

 

[brewmama]

Well, that is their job, after all.

Not initially. They rather took that on themselves.

 

[Hank77]

You don't even understand the theory you want to exclude from the science curriculum.

Evolution is just not something that is essential to children getting a basically sound and diverse education. It is not necessary to succeeding in everyday life. It is not like reading and writing skills or advanced mathematics. It doesn't teach how to be productive citizens that can get along with a diverse group of people like history and sociology does. In this day and age it is much more productive for a child in grade school to learn a second, even third language.

Tell me what college degrees require knowledge of evolutionary theory. Bet you can't name very many.

Like I said, an elective class at high school level, whatever, but not required. Of coarse then there should be an alternate elective class that includes intelligent design. This is a public school so all theories should be given consideration, don't you think? What makes your theory more provable than mine? Absolutely nothing.

 

[keith99]

Easy. The states most definitely had established churches, as it was Congress that was forbidden to do it.

Was, past tense. There is a little thing called the 14 amendment. That changed everything.

 

[Hank77]

When you go to the doctor, do you give them advice on how to use germ theory in how they practice medicine?

Does my doctor give me a diagnoses based on evolutionary theory? Does my pharmacist consider evolutionary theory when determining drug interactions? Be careful now, I can pick up the phone and call either my son or my daughter-in-law to validate anything you may try to insinuate.
I have never said that there are not any theories that are beneficial or even necessary in many sciences but evolutionary theory doesn't happen to be one of them. But consider DNA, it is very beneficial to life and quality of life, as we are seeing very quickly. In fact, I believe that is where the scientific answers will be found that evolution has never been able to answer. DNA just may disprove many of the essential arguments for evolutionary theory.

I wish I could remember the specifics of this example but I can only give a rough description from memory right now.
Just what is in that little package of DNA that allows a species of fish to mutate from a small mouthed, large tailed fish to a large mouthed, small tailed fish and then back again, in the space of just a few years, depending on the predators in the lake?

 

[Aldebaran]

We aren't talking about beliefs, but facts.

So the "theory" of evolution is now a "fact"? Did they just give up on trying to prove their theory and redefine it as a fact so nobody could challenge it anymore?
Oh well, I guess that's what we get for handing our kids over to the government to be educated....