Sunday Worship...

[visionary]

No. He rose on the first day of the week and the scriptures describe worship and fellowship and teaching and all that good stuff occurring on the First day of the week. The evidence suggests that this First day observance was in honour of His rising.

So, unless you are accusing the Apostles in Jerusalem of being pagan, there is your answer.



Who cares what they say? There are people that say the Torah is completely paganised too. Who cares? Get on with it and feed the poor.

A manufactured story after the fact to fill in justification. Changing the Torah of God is not something God ever sanctions. In fact in several places you will read a curse on those who try. And there is a Daniel prophesy that says it will happen, and that it is an apostasy that will be removed. This might be an uncomfortable truth but it is truth.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

What I see that is wrong is not so much the gathering on Sunday as the refusal to obey the command to remember the Sabbath to keep it holy. I don't think you see the Sabbath as having been moved to Sun. I don't know much yet about Anglican (as you know) but I've heard that the EO also has services on Sat. That would be ideal!!

Yes we do The Sabbath is on the 7th day (Saturday) from sunset to sunset, that has NEVER changed in the Eastern churches. The resurrection is celebrated on the 1st day of the week (Sunday).

 

[Open Heart]

The commandment to keep the sabbath was given to Israel, not to the church which is primarily gentile. This is why nowhere in the NT is the commandment to keep the sabbath never spoken (unlike the other commandments). Rather, early on, the gentile church took on the habit of meeting the first day of the week to break bread (Acts 20:7).

As both a Jew and a Catholic, I do both. I keep the Shabbat from sunset to sunset on Saturday by Conservative standards, and I also attend Mass on Sunday. Now, my parish also has a 4:00 Saturday vigil Mass that counts for the Sunday obligation that I would prefer to go to because it is on Shabbat, and as soon as I get a car I intend to go to that Mass.

 

[visionary]

The commandment to keep the sabbath was given to Israel, not to the church which is primarily gentile.

I do not know where anyone can say this... Yeshua was very clear... "Sabbath was made for man"....

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

http://www.allsaints-stl.org/Is Sunday the Orthodox Christian Sabbath - Web Version 2008.pdf

 

[visionary]

http://www.allsaints-stl.org/Is Sunday the Orthodox Christian Sabbath - Web Version 2008.pdf

Dumb conclusion

 

[Open Heart]

I do not know where anyone can say this... Yeshua was very clear... "Sabbath was made for man"....

Right. Jews were men, not birds or butterflies.

 

[visionary]

Right. Jews were men, not birds or butterflies.

So are the rest of humanity.

 

[Open Heart]

So are the rest of humanity.

But the rest of humanity is not Israel.

 

[pinacled]

7th Day....Sabbath made for man..
Hebrews
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Looking at the Details. I see time skipping around.
Acts 20 King James Version (KJV)
20 And after the uproar was ceased, Paul called unto him the disciples, and embraced them, and departed for to go into Macedonia.
2 And when he had gone over those parts, and had given them much exhortation, he came into Greece,
3 And there abode three months. And when the Jews laid wait for him, as he was about to sail into Syria, he purposed to return through Macedonia.
4 And there accompanied him into Asia Sopater of Berea; and of the Thessalonians, Aristarchus and Secundus; and Gaius of Derbe, and Timotheus; and of Asia, Tychicus and Trophimus.
5 These going before tarried for us at Troas.
6 And we sailed away from Philippi after the days of unleavened bread, and came unto them to Troas in five days; where we abode seven days.
7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
8 And there were many lights in the upper chamber, where they were gathered together.

Pretty sure verse 8 is a sign post we can read loud and clear.

 

[pat34lee]

The commandment to keep the sabbath was given to Israel,

No, the sabbath was put into place in Genesis 1 & 2, long before the flood, and longer before Abram and eventually Jacob (Israel) or Judah.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Dumb conclusion

Why is that?

 

[visionary]

But the rest of humanity is not Israel.

Rest of humanity is man..kind... and Yeshua stated clearly... Sabbath was made for man.... not for the exclusive use of the Jews... Anyone worshiping God follows His instructions on how He wants to be worshiped... Here are the saints.... Those that keep the commandments and believe in Yeshua. ..... The Angel crying in a loud voice all over the world to all people, all nations.... Worship the Creator.

 

[visionary]

"We must see beyond the historical manipulation of Sunday into a “Christian Sabbath” and return to the fact that Sunday is truly the eschatological Lord's Day, which manifests itself in the eucharistic Liturgy. It is a day that fills us with joy in knowing that when this cycle of time ends in this age, the new age will dawn, and it is then that we will find our ultimate rest in Jesus Christ in the “unending day” of His Kingdom."

.... Presentation went along just fine then ends with this u-turn out of nowhere.... There was no presentation throughout that Sunday is truly the eschatological Lord's Day.

 

[Open Heart]

Looking at the Details. I see time skipping around.
Acts 20 King James Version (KJV)
20 And after the uproar was ceased, Paul called unto him the disciples, and embraced them, and departed for to go into Macedonia.
2 And when he had gone over those parts, and had given them much exhortation, he came into Greece,
3 And there abode three months. And when the Jews laid wait for him, as he was about to sail into Syria, he purposed to return through Macedonia.
4 And there accompanied him into Asia Sopater of Berea; and of the Thessalonians, Aristarchus and Secundus; and Gaius of Derbe, and Timotheus; and of Asia, Tychicus and Trophimus.
5 These going before tarried for us at Troas.
6 And we sailed away from Philippi after the days of unleavened bread, and came unto them to Troas in five days; where we abode seven days.
7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
8 And there were many lights in the upper chamber, where they were gathered together.
googletag.cmd.push(function() { googletag.display('div-gpt-ad-1431698694306-1'); });
Pretty sure verse 8 is a sign post we can read loud and clear.

What does Acts 20 have to do with Shabbat? Nothing. Apples and Oranges my friend.

 

[Open Heart]

No, the sabbath was put into place in Genesis 1 & 2, long before the flood, and longer before Abram and eventually Jacob (Israel) or Judah.

The Sabbath was, but NOT the commandment to keep the Shabbat. Adam and Noah were nowhere commanded to observe the Sabbath.

 

[Open Heart]

Rest of humanity is man..kind... and Yeshua stated clearly... Sabbath was made for man.... not for the exclusive use of the Jews... Anyone worshiping God follows His instructions on how He wants to be worshiped... Here are the saints.... Those that keep the commandments and believe in Yeshua. ..... The Angel crying in a loud voice all over the world to all people, all nations.... Worship the Creator.

Saying that the Sabbath is made for man is not the same as saying that the Sabbath was given to all of mankind. And the Torah makes it clear that 1. it was given to Israel and 2. its observance is a sign of the exodus.

 

[pinacled]

Joshua Chapter 1 יְהוֹשֻׁעַ
א וַיְהִי, אַחֲרֵי מוֹת מֹשֶׁה--עֶבֶד יְהוָה; וַיֹּאמֶר יְהוָה אֶל-יְהוֹשֻׁעַ בִּן-נוּן, מְשָׁרֵת מֹשֶׁה לֵאמֹר. 1 Now it came to pass after the death of Moses the servant of the LORD, that the LORD spoke unto Joshua the son of Nun, Moses' minister, saying:
ב מֹשֶׁה עַבְדִּי, מֵת; וְעַתָּה קוּם עֲבֹר אֶת-הַיַּרְדֵּן הַזֶּה, אַתָּה וְכָל-הָעָם הַזֶּה, אֶל-הָאָרֶץ, אֲשֶׁר אָנֹכִי נֹתֵן לָהֶם לִבְנֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל. 2 'Moses My servant is dead; now therefore arise, go over this Jordan, thou, and all this people, unto the land which I do give to them, even to the children of Israel.
ג כָּל-מָקוֹם, אֲשֶׁר תִּדְרֹךְ כַּף-רַגְלְכֶם בּוֹ--לָכֶם נְתַתִּיו: כַּאֲשֶׁר דִּבַּרְתִּי, אֶל-מֹשֶׁה. 3 Every place that the sole of your foot shall tread upon, to you have I given it, as I spoke unto Moses.
ד מֵהַמִּדְבָּר וְהַלְּבָנוֹן הַזֶּה וְעַד-הַנָּהָר הַגָּדוֹל נְהַר-פְּרָת, כֹּל אֶרֶץ הַחִתִּים, וְעַד-הַיָּם הַגָּדוֹל, מְבוֹא הַשָּׁמֶשׁ--יִהְיֶה, גְּבוּלְכֶם. 4 From the wilderness, and this Lebanon, even unto the great river, the river Euphrates, all the land of the Hittites, and unto the Great Sea toward the going down of the sun, shall be your border.
ה לֹא-יִתְיַצֵּב אִישׁ לְפָנֶיךָ, כֹּל יְמֵי חַיֶּיךָ: כַּאֲשֶׁר הָיִיתִי עִם-מֹשֶׁה אֶהְיֶה עִמָּךְ, לֹא אַרְפְּךָ וְלֹא אֶעֶזְבֶךָּ. 5 There shall not any man be able to stand before thee all the days of thy life; as I was with Moses, so I will be with thee; I will not fail thee, nor forsake thee.
ו חֲזַק, וֶאֱמָץ: כִּי אַתָּה, תַּנְחִיל אֶת-הָעָם הַזֶּה, אֶת-הָאָרֶץ, אֲשֶׁר-נִשְׁבַּעְתִּי לַאֲבוֹתָם לָתֵת לָהֶם. 6 Be strong and of good courage; for thou shalt cause this people to inherit the land which I swore unto their fathers to give them.
ז רַק חֲזַק וֶאֱמַץ מְאֹד, לִשְׁמֹר לַעֲשׂוֹת כְּכָל-הַתּוֹרָה--אֲשֶׁר צִוְּךָ מֹשֶׁה עַבְדִּי, אַל-תָּסוּר מִמֶּנּוּ יָמִין וּשְׂמֹאול: לְמַעַן תַּשְׂכִּיל, בְּכֹל אֲשֶׁר תֵּלֵךְ. 7 Only be strong and very courageous, to observe to do according to all the law, which Moses My servant commanded thee; turn not from it to the right hand or to the left, that thou mayest have good success whithersoever thou goest.

8 This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth, but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein; for then thou shalt make thy ways prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success.

 

[pat34lee]

Saying that the Sabbath is made for man is not the same as saying that the Sabbath was given to all of mankind. And the Torah makes it clear that 1. it was given to Israel and 2. its observance is a sign of the exodus.

The sabbath has nothing to do with the exodus. That was the Passover. Also, the new year was set to commemorate the month they left.

Back to Genesis 2:3. Yahweh hallowed the seventh day. Set it aside. Anyone following him from Adam down would have been taught. Notice that Cain and Abel knew what and how to offer even though it doesn't say who taught them. The scriptures don't always give all the minute details, but there is enough to connect the dots.

 

[visionary]

Saying that the Sabbath is made for man is not the same as saying that the Sabbath was given to all of mankind. And the Torah makes it clear that 1. it was given to Israel and 2. its observance is a sign of the exodus.

It was a sign for worship....the Creator... In the commandment itself... Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God (Name). In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the LORD (Title: Creator) made (authority) the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them (Jurisdiction), and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it (Exodus 20: 8-11 NKJV).

These three components comprise what is known as a seal, and lend authority to the law. The Ten Commandments gain their validity only from the royal seal of the Creator God embodied in the Sabbath commandment. Without a royal seal, no law would be valid. Moreover, even with a royal seal, a law is only valid in the area of the king’s jurisdiction.

As our Lord... He promises ...

Isaiah 56:3-8 3 Let not the foreigner who has joined himself to the Lord say,
“The Lord will surely separate me from his people”; and let not the eunuch say,
“Behold, I am a dry tree.” 4 For thus says the Lord: “To the eunuchs who keep my Sabbaths, who choose the things that please me and hold fast my covenant, 5 I will give in my house and within my walls a monument and a name better than sons and daughters; I will give them an everlasting name that shall not be cut off.

6 the foreigners who join themselves to the Lord, to minister to him, to love the name of the Lord, and to be his servants, everyone who keeps the Sabbath and does not profane it, and holds fast my covenant — 7 my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer; their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be accepted on my altar; for my house shall be called a house of prayer for all peoples.” 8 The Lord God,
who gathers the outcasts of Israel, declares, “I will gather yet others to him
besides those already gathered.”

Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it He had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Ex 20:8 Remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy.

There were, in fact, a full seven days of creation. On the seventh day He made the Sabbath. The Sabbath was and is made by rest not by work. We are to follow his example and rest from our "work". Sabbath is the day God commanded for us to set-apart. His children are obedient to His command. The Sabbath is also how we know we are worshiping the God of Creation, because He created for six days and rested on Shabbat (the seventh day). In Judaism, we are counted as sons when we do what the father does.