Sunday Worship...

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yonah_mishael

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Heber cited:
2 Timothy 2:14ff and Exodus 22:27 (28)

A rip-snitch quote.

Here's another rip-snitch quote:
1Jn 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

That's enough
" 'by what authority' " for us to inquire. It's meaning is clear. That is not only the authority for us to ask, it is clearly a responsibility for us to ask, your manuever notwithstanding.

Openness and transparency will instill trust and attendant reliance. Considering the petty self-protectionism going on here and the attendant game playing, my perception of what you have fed us, wherein am I to base trust in you?

But, nice attempt at a slap down. What limitless arrogance! BARF!!!!


The fact is.... people have the right to anonymity when posting on a forum for various reasons. It's a violation of privacy to push things further than someone is willing to go. Not everyone wishes to spill all of their personal business on an open forum -- much less to make up backstories and create personae that simply are not real (as we've seen done on these forums more than once). I'd prefer to see someone insist on their right to privacy than for all kinds of alternate personalities to suddenly manifest themselves here.

It's beyond anyone's rights here to demand that another person post their personal identities on this or any other forum.

(Not to mention that your own identity is at question on this and other forums, since there seems to be some confusion between you and dodari [your claimed brother who seems to have disappeared since you've become accustomed to posting as aniello]. Perhaps the fact that you've found it necessary to post so much personal information on the forums that people have begun to even doubt who you are and if you have a split personality leads to your demand of others to post all kinds of stories about their own personal lives on here.)
 
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aniello

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Aniello,

I see a double standard here. If you regard education as of little significance, why then do you put "old ambulance chaser" in your ID? Does that not advertise to everyone that you have a degree in law?????

Oft times in the U.S. lawyers are referred to as "ambulance chasers" meaning we will take any easy actionable cause as long as we get our fee. It is a sarcastic swipe at myself.

I have multiple degrees, had to have at least a bachelors degree to get into law school. I made some money, I lost a lot of money. To which I say about all of it; So what!! Big deal. It was all meaningless, my achievements, in the face of eternity before a Holy God. My "stuff" is only that, just "stuff".

Anyone here that would be awe struck of an attorney needs to get out more.

Education certainly is useful, but no stone stricken guarantee.

I enjoy taking humor at my own expense, I look back at how intense I was, how right I was, how "cool" I was, yada yada, and I laugh, because the joke is on me.

I once asked a question about the Acts 2 and Acts 4(pre-Paul) believers. I really honestly wondered what, how and why they believed. Also I wondered how, when and what they did as following obedience to that beginning faith. It was in no wise a refutation of Paul nor an affirmation of Paul. It was relevant to me as a time-line thing, solely. The very first response to that question was a slam-dunker, as you know. But that's OK. Since then I have been afforded answers to the question(s) time-line wise and it is well. I solicit no more. None.

So, Peace and wholeness for you, sincerely.
 
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aniello

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The fact is.... people have the right to anonymity when posting on a forum for various reasons. It's a violation of privacy to push things further than someone is willing to go. Not everyone wishes to spill all of their personal business on an open forum -- much less to make up backstories and create personae that simply are not real (as we've seen done on these forums more than once). I'd prefer to see someone insist on their right to privacy than for all kinds of alternate personalities to suddenly manifest themselves here.

It's beyond anyone's rights here to demand that another person post their personal identities on this or any other forum.

(Not to mention that your own identity is at question on this and other forums, since there seems to be some confusion between you and dodari [your claimed brother who seems to have disappeared since you've become accustomed to posting as aniello]. Perhaps the fact that you've found it necessary to post so much personal information on the forums that people have begun to even doubt who you are and if you have a split personality leads to your demand of others to post all kinds of stories about their own personal lives on here.)

About the privacy issue I agree. I merely wondered what the chaps denominational flavor was, where he was coming from.

I have a brother, Dodari, about 5 years younger than I. I have a sister, female Jewish name, 11 years younger than myself. I have a yet younger brother, nick named Thunder Chicken, who is nearly 15 years younger than me. My parents never thought it necessary to get an outsiders' approval.

At 75 I realize that some of us old fossils get sentimental and ramble on, I do. It's unsettling to you? Interesting.

I still believe that you are exceptionally gifted in linguistics and related talents and I believe that you will continue to have much to give for the cause of tikkun.

As to folk's assessment of my possible multi-parametric personae and such, that's ok, doesn't bother me. At 75 I would have to have a lot of pride to begin to worry about that subject in your mere conjecture. IOW, I simply do not care, beyond this response, what anyone thinks, nor did I care before. Think what you want. Really. Do what you want, really.

I have a life, quite busy, beyond the limited parameters imposed on these fora. Soooooooo, if I were to make a choice about spending my remaining time with real people in the real world, rather than with virtual associations at some virtual charade, I would choose to get out more. And so I am able to choose.

An opinion of mine. Political-Religio-correctness is fear based behaviour.

I am not interested in the slightest as to any response to this you may or may not make. Not to put you down. Understand, it simply does not matter to me. You, nor anyone else can define me, you don't live in my skin.

You may think what you may think and I shall think what I shall think. As it is said; "It's a free country".

So,
A usted te espero pas, salud, verdad, y prosperidad,
Buenas noches.
Ciaou.

p.s. su opinion de mi, a mi no me importa! Recuerdalo.

Mille grazzie.
 
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visionary

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I never ask people to follow me - just to think for themselves and challenge those who challenge established Christian truth. Hear both sides of the story, and don't forget that God has always been in charge of the Church. It's the way it is because it's the way He has ordained it. Good, bad, ugly, beautiful, hypocritical, true, deceitful etc. It's all going to His plan. He's merely looking for true faithful followers of His Son in amongst all the human drama.

So, when people like myself, Heber, yonah and others are called pharisees, I think it is just an excuse to smear what we actually have to offer. I don't see it as an accusation with any real substance.
Challenging "established " Christian truth.... that is where spiritual growth comes from... Yeshua did it in His day... and still does it through His disciples..

Being called a pharisee has to more to do with the "superior" attitude.. than any given knowledge.
 
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yonah_mishael

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About the privacy issue I agree. I merely wondered what the chaps denominational flavor was, where he was coming from.

They why did you push and pester him? Why not let it alone when he said that he wasn't interested in divulging his personal details? Now he's left the forum!!

aniello said:
I have a brother, Dodari, about 5 years younger than I. I have a sister, female Jewish name, 11 years younger than myself. I have a yet younger brother, nick named Thunder Chicken, who is nearly 15 years younger than me. My parents never thought it necessary to get an outsiders' approval.

And Heber shouldn't have needed to satisfy your curiosity about his personal details. What does he need your approval for?

aniello said:
At 75 I realize that some of us old fossils get sentimental and ramble on, I do. It's unsettling to you? Interesting.

That itself doesn't unsettle me. I'm good at tuning things out. What caught me as strange was the way in which you and dodari really just seem like the same person - except that he was interested in learning about Judaism apart from Jesus, acting like it was all a show over on this forum, while you're an open professor of Jesus. Seems to be two sides of the same coin, and not to me only - like you were trying to play both fields and needed two usernames to do it.

In the end, it doesn't matter - since you can do whatever you want - guaranteed by your right to anonymity. It was only your disrespect for someone else's identical rights that brought this out of me in the first place. I sincerely believe that you and dodari are one and the same person.

aniello said:
I am not interested in the slightest as to any response to this you may or may not make. Not to put you down. Understand, it simply does not matter to me. You, nor anyone else can define me, you don't live in my skin.

You may think what you may think and I shall think what I shall think. As it is said; "It's a free country".

Indeed. You're free to do as you wish, as am I. I've got different Internet names on different forums, but I don't make games of them. Ah well....

You really don't need my approval to be whoever you want to be online. But don't push others to get personal on forums. It's just rude.

aniello said:
So,
A usted te espero pas, salud, verdad, y prosperidad,
Buenas noches.
Ciaou.

p.s. su opinion de mi, a mi no me importa! Recuerdalo.

Mille grazzie.

Lo que yo pienso en cuanto a Ud. no le importa a nadie, estoy seguro.
También a Ud. yo le espero bondad y paz.
No piense que tengo algo contra Ud. personalmente. No le conozco y jamás le esperaría nada menos de lo más bueno en su vida.
Pero, se tiene que comportar con respeto en cuanto a los que vienen a visitar en este foro y compartir con nosotros.... aún si no quieran decirnos lo todo acerca de sus vidas personales.

Buenas noches y ciao....

YM
 
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ContraMundum

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Challenging "established " Christian truth.... that is where spiritual growth comes from... Yeshua did it in His day... and still does it through His disciples..

No, vis. Spiritual growth is NOT about challenging established Christian truth. It's about receiving grace, through His Word, His sacraments, prayer, fellowship, confession of sin, repentance....

It's not about intellectual jousting. Never was, never will be.

Anyway, you missed the point. I was talking about challenging those who challenge established truths. You guys rarely do that. You guys tend to agree with anyone that gives you excuse to distance yourselves from the church, and you really forget to be Bereans when it comes to that.

I'm not talking about established "truths", but established, founded, grounded and time proven truths. Actual truth is thin on the ground on many of the claims in this forums.

Being called a pharisee has to more to do with the "superior" attitude.. than any given knowledge.

It's still a slur, either way.
 
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psalms 91

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No, vis. Spiritual growth is NOT about challenging established Christian truth. It's about receiving grace, through His Word, His sacraments, prayer, fellowship, confession of sin, repentance....

It's not about intellectual jousting. Never was, never will be.

Anyway, you missed the point. I was talking about challenging those who challenge established truths. You guys rarely do that. You guys tend to agree with anyone that gives you excuse to distance yourselves from the church, and you really forget to be Bereans when it comes to that.

I'm not talking about established "truths", but established, founded, grounded and time proven truths. Actual truth is thin on the ground on many of the claims in this forums.



It's still a slur, either way.
Problem is, that when the bible contradicts established church doctrine then it becomes a free for all. It is like Sunday worship, that is established but is not according to what God said but you will get all sorts of justification for it.
 
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rsduncan

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Problem is, that when the bible contradicts established church doctrine then it becomes a free for all. It is like Sunday worship, that is established but is not according to what God said but you will get all sorts of justification for it.

To say nothing of Matthew 5:17-19...
 
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SGM4HIM

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Sunday worship meetings occurred early and during the time of the apostles. How do you know it is not ok with God? Is it possible the Holy spirit said it was ok?

Could meeting on Sunday be ok if the Keys of the Kingdom were given out and they could bind and loosing?

Matthew 5:17 addresses the Law and THE PROPHETS. Is this an idiom used for the TANAKH?

I think we must be very careful .........
 
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ContraMundum

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Problem is, that when the bible contradicts established church doctrine then it becomes a free for all.

This has not been proven to be the case on this forum. Instead, it always seems to boil down to the fact that the "challengers" are in the wrong, and have not properly studied the scriptures.

It is like Sunday worship, that is established but is not according to what God said but you will get all sorts of justification for it.

I don't agree here. I think there is a good case that states that Christians are free to gather any time they want, and are not commanded to follow only the particular laws burdened upon Israel alone, which sets her apart from the Gentiles.

I could debate this, but I honestly don't think anyone here cares enough about the Word of God in a serious enough manner to listen or take the time to actually discuss the real, underlying truths of the days of the week.
 
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Sunday worship meetings occurred early and during the time of the apostles. How do you know it is not ok with God? Is it possible the Holy spirit said it was ok?

Could meeting on Sunday be ok if the Keys of the Kingdom were given out and they could bind and loosing?

Matthew 5:17 addresses the Law and THE PROPHETS. Is this an idiom used for the TANAKH?

I think we must be very careful .........

Interesting that people seem to forget that the Holy Spirit guided the Apostles and Our Lord promised never to abandon His church. Instead, you have people today that claim they are led by the Holy Spirit more than the Apostles were when they reject Apostolic practices.
 
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visionary

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Interesting that people seem to forget that the Holy Spirit guided the Apostles and Our Lord promised never to abandon His church. Instead, you have people today that claim they are led by the Holy Spirit more than the Apostles were when they reject Apostolic practices.
"Apostolic" is in question here.. there is enough evidence to contradict that conclusion.
 
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yedida

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"Apostolic" is in question here.. there is enough evidence to contradict that conclusion.

That's right!!
If we choose the follow "apostolic" leadings, where do we draw the line? After all, somewhere down the line, one of those so-called Holy Spirit led guys decided he was Yeshua incarnate!! Should we continue to believe these guys?
 
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yedida

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Interesting that people seem to forget that the Holy Spirit guided the Apostles and Our Lord promised never to abandon His church. Instead, you have people today that claim they are led by the Holy Spirit more than the Apostles were when they reject Apostolic practices.

CM, if you, a guest here, wants to come in and criticize us, why do it with veiled words. Be honest in your dealings, lay it out. Just what is explicitly an "apostolic practice" in the Bible that we reject?
 
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Elionai

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Dick Van Dyke is that you?

I say chap, thank you for your totally spiffy welcome, what!

Let me say, I personally (not TJCII the organisation) am (drum roll surprise surprise) pretty new/rookie/wet-behind-the-ears when it comes to engaging Jewish & Messianic Jewish people in conversation. I know, BIG surprise there to everyone but, I joined TJCII two years ago and even though I wouldn't be able to get involved with it's work until now due to moving house, getting married and trying to find work in the worst recession in my relatively short life so far, I finally have the time to match my desire for dialogue toward healing what is the oldest wound between us. (by 'us' I naturally mean Israel/Jews and the Church)

My comment about the work of the Holy Spirit is based on my joining this forum and seeing people arguing and I naively thought there would less of that here. That thinking was very silly of me and I should have been less cryptic perhaps.

I'll be honest, your reply was, amusing and confusing, my brain was, for a moment, much like Dreidl but it's helped me realise I'm going to need to put on the extra thick skinned coat of love and certainly not take things personally, so I want to thank you for that.

Over on the TJCII.org.uk website there has been a post written about Unity, and makes the point that Yeshua's last prayer before being arrested was about that, yet we seem to ignore it so often. There have been good comments about it too, like how we all seem to want unity of doctrine before oneness of heart, which is downright sad.

Anyway, I think I learned some kind of lesson here already so I must be growing. As for the UK becoming a Kaliphate, I think the government are having way too much watching hundreds of people all clambering around for the same job just to put food on the table while they let their 'big business' (oops did I say business? Society I meant big society) friends siphon millions through tax loopholes to notice any other damage they may be causing.

Good day, may God bless you and keep you and ever shine his face upon you.
 
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aniello

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TJCII_EU,

I ask your forgiveness, sincerely I do. I thought you were someone else. I wholly and totally blew it. I think the regulars here would be interested in your work, as am I. I totally screwed up, very badly. I sincerely apologize. Please don't form an opinion of the others based on the snap reaction of a silly old fool such as me.
 
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