Can you lose your salvation?

[Marvin Knox]

“Irrevocable” gift of eternal life “yes”, but since the receiver of the gift now owns the gift; he can pass it on to satan.

Where does scripture ever suggest a gift given to you cannot be given away by you?

So millions of Christians can give the gift of eternal life to Satan?

What's he gonna do with them - crawl up on the throne of God and seat himself with Christ for eternity?

I have no idea what you must mean by giving our gifts to Satan.

If you are talking about living for Satan or self and suffering loss because of Satan's work - sure. We all believe that born again believers can do that.

Just where are you coming from with this giving the gift away?

You're going to give eternal life to Satan????? Please explain.

 

[Brother Chris]

Can you lose your Salvation?
Please provide scripture to prove your position.

God bless you

If it is possible to lose salvation, then it will definitely happen. It's not a question of if, but when.

 

[Isaacsname]

Perhaps. Maybe it will turn out that many people built a house of cards for themselves

 

[FreeGrace2]

If it is possible to lose salvation, then it will definitely happen. It's not a question of if, but when.

It seems the question was missed. Or ignored.

Here is the question:
"Can you lose your Salvation?
Please provide scripture to prove your position."

So, if it possible, Scripture would most certainly SAY so, right? So, the question is this: what Scriptures prove that salvation can be lost.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Perhaps. Maybe it will turn out that many people built a house of cards for themselves

Another post that either missed the question or ignored it.

"Can you lose your Salvation?
Please provide scripture to prove your position."

I'll say again; if it is possible to lose your salvation, Scripture would most certainly SAY so. Where does Scripture SAY that we can lose our salvation?

 

[Isaacsname]

I personally don't bother trying to wade through the countless doctrines people have created for themselves

Ok, let's go to Matthew for a second

“ Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’ "

What happens to those who are part of the group that say " lord lord " but do not enter heaven ?

Are they " saved " or not ?

 

[bling]

Doesn't matter. There are NO verses that teach or even suggest that one who has eternal life has the authority to "give it away". One can kill their own body. But no one can kill ETERNAL life. And it can't be given away because one cannot give away their physical life, or spiritual life.

The Hebrew writer is using the selling of Esau’s birthright example as something he does not want Christians to do with their birthright of eternal life.

If you give the gift of eternal life away then you can be killed.

If the gift is something God continues to possess and is not really yours and it is not really a gift given to you.

I explained what "do not give up" means. Was it ignored??

You said: “It refers to giving up our efforts to receive eternal reward. That's what "reap a harvest" means. The verse has nothing to do with gaining salvation or giving it up.”

How can you reap “our efforts to receive eternal reward”? , since that does not make sense and Paul specifically said the harvest was eternal life? There is no “effort” we put forth, but we do have the privilege of sowing the seed and God does all the hard important stuff.

No verse says that.

Read Gal. 6: 7-9

Which verse tells us that we can give our gift of eternal life to Satan?

You did a good job defining a gift, in that ownership is transferred.

The Hebrew writer is Heb. 12 is presenting that concept.

Which verse says: the gifts you have been given you cannot possible give away?

Really? So, let's see about that:
"7Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap. 8For theone who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. 9Let us not lose heart in doing good, for in due time we will reap if we do not grow weary."

Just as I thought: no mention of Satan, no mention of "giving away" one's eternal life. So, it's obvious that the notion of being able to "give away one's eternal life" is just a made up story.

If you give up you also give up the harvest (eternal life). You are either a child of God with eternal life or a child of satan without eternal life.

Apparently there is no understanding here as to what your point actually is. If your "interpretation" is correct, one is saved by "pleasing the Spirit" then. So, Paul directly lied to the jailer who wanted to know how to be saved. Paul sure didn't tell him to please the Spirit. Your view completely destroys the doctrine of soteriology, which is salvation by grace THROUGH FAITH.

It does not say you are doing it to “please” the Spirit, but sowing after the Spirit would please the Spirit.

Paul in Galatians is not talking to unbelievers, but believers. To the unbeliever jailer his next step is to become a believer, but to the Christians in Galatia the objective is to continue sowing after the Spirit (they are already believers), so they will continue to grow their Love. If the Galatians quit sowing after the Spirit their Love can wither to the point of not caring and thus the harvest has little value to them.

Is this a suggestion that the prodigal son joined Satan's family?? Where do you get your ideas?? None of them are supported by Scripture.

The people in the foreign land the prodigal son went to were not children of God and the prodigal son did not want to be around God’s Children with the best example being his own father. Jesus tells us who the children of satan are.

 

[bling]

So millions of Christians can give the gift of eternal life to Satan?

What's he gonna do with them - crawl up on the throne of God and seat himself with Christ for eternity?

I have no idea what you must mean by giving our gifts to Satan.

If you are talking about living for Satan or self and suffering loss because of Satan's work - sure. We all believe that born again believers can do that.

Just where are you coming from with this giving the gift away?

You're going to give eternal life to Satan????? Please explain.

Just as Esau gave his birthright away you can give your birthright of eternal life away, since it is truly yours.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I personally don't bother trying to wade through the countless doctrines people have created for themselves

Ok, let's go to Matthew for a second

“ Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’ "

What happens to those who are part of the group that say " lord lord " but do not enter heaven ?

Are they " saved " or not ?

Never were. How do we know that? Just check the basis for their appeal to entering the kingdom: works. We are saved by grace through faith. They never believed. So they were never saved.

 

[Isaacsname]

Sweet, it's as easy as giving lip service

presto bingo

 

[FreeGrace2]

The Hebrew writer is using the selling of Esau’s birthright example as something he does not want Christians to do with their birthright of eternal life.[/QUOET]
Please point specifically to the place in that passage that equates Esau's birthright as our eternal life.

If you give the gift of eternal life away then you can be killed.

Huh? There NO PLACE in Scripture that says that we can give our eternal life away, yet we CAN be killed. Your statement doesn't make any sense.

If the gift is something God continues to possess and is not really yours and it is not really a gift given to you.

Huh? God doesn't "possess the gift of eternal life". God IS eternal life. So SAYS Scripture: "And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life."

You said: “It refers to giving up our efforts to receive eternal reward. That's what "reap a harvest" means. The verse has nothing to do with gaining salvation or giving it up.”

How can you reap “our efforts to receive eternal reward”? , since that does not make sense

I never said we "reap our efforts". I said reaping eternal life is about our efforts which are blessed by reward. To "reap eternal life" means to be blessed beyond just having eternal life. It means to receive rewards in eternity. How is that not clear?

and Paul specifically said the harvest was eternal life? There is no “effort” we put forth, but we do have the privilege of sowing the seed and God does all the hard important stuff.

Yes, for reward in eternity, we MUST put forth an effort. The Bible SAYS so: Heb 4:11 - Therefore let us be diligent (make every effort) to enter that rest, so that no one will fall, through following the same example of disobedience.

To "enter that rest" speaks of receiving eternal reward.

Which verse says: the gifts you have been given you cannot possible give away?

I'll rephrase the question to show the fallacy of your view: Which verse SAYS that we CAN give away our salvation/eternal life? None.

If you give up you also give up the harvest (eternal life). You are either a child of God with eternal life or a child of satan without eternal life.

OK, let's go with this. Once a child of God, ALWAYS a child of God. How can we know this? The Bible makes that clear.

First, in Rom 8:35-39, Paul says that there is NOTHING that can separate us (believers, who are God's children) from the love of Christ. It is pure insanity to think that one who is a child of God will spend eternity in the lake of fire, also called the second death. This would be a separation from God, and contradict Rom 8:35-39.

Second, there are NO verses that indicate that we can lose or give away our eternal life. NONE.

Paul in Galatians is not talking to unbelievers, but believers. To the unbeliever jailer his next step is to become a believer, but to the Christians in Galatia the objective is to continue sowing after the Spirit (they are already believers), so they will continue to grow their Love. If the Galatians quit sowing after the Spirit their Love can wither to the point of not caring and thus the harvest has little value to them.

None of this proves or even indicates loss of salvation or eternal life. Apparently you're unfamiliar with the Biblical doctrine of eternal rewards.

The people in the foreign land the prodigal son went to were not children of God and the prodigal son did not want to be around God’s Children with the best example being his own father.

This proves nothing. Yes, he left his father. So what? Was he still a son? Of course he was. Once a son, always a son. Your physical DNA marks you as a son to both your father and mother. Permanently. The same is true spiritually, because the Holy Spirit indwells all believers.

Jesus tells us who the children of satan are.

Sure. Anyone who does his bidding. So what? How does that prove or even relate to loss of salvation? He wasn't speaking literally there. He was making a point about behavior.

Many many posts, and there hasn't been anything close to evidence much less proof that one can lose or give away their salvation.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Just as Esau gave his birthright away you can give your birthright of eternal life away, since it is truly yours.

Please show where the Bible equates Esau's birthright with one's eternal life. The claim is false without any evidence to back it up.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Sweet, it's as easy as giving lip service

presto bingo

What is? Your post is rather vague.

 

[Brother Chris]

Sweet, it's as easy as giving lip service

presto bingo

Those people from Matthew 7 were not saved and not born again. John 3 makes it clear, you must be born again. The keywords in Matthew 7 are "depart from me you who practice lawlessness." Born again saved people, do not practice lawlessness.

 

[Marvin Knox]

Just as Esau gave his birthright away you can give your birthright of eternal life away, since it is truly yours.

My birthright is not my eternal life. I received eternal life via my second birth.

Esau didn't sell his very life for the pleasures of a bowl of stew. The text shows us that.

He sold the privileges that he could have had and exercised in his life for momentary pleasure.

Many of us have done the same after being born again.

Many who have traded righteousness for momentary pleasures have awakened to find that the gifts of the Spirit and the ministries of the Spirit that we desired after we came back to the Lord were somehow just a little out of our reach in this life.

We lived for the Lord after our repentance - but the potential we had available for our lives simply wasn't within our reach any more.

High position in Christ's body and the abilities to exercise authority in the Kingdom of God were sold for the momentary pleasures of this world. We didn't realize it at the time. We perhaps thought that we could simply repent later on and continue as if we had never given ourselves over to sin. But it was never the same.

I speak from experience when I say that we sold our "birthright".

Exactly how these things work in the realm of the spirit I do not know. But I do know that grieving the Spirit of God with whom we were sealed unto the day of redemption is a very serious thing indeed.

Like Esau though - we didn't sell our very life. How silly for anyone to read that into the text IMO.

 

[Wordkeeper]

My birthright is not my eternal life. I received eternal life via my second birth.

Esau didn't sell his very life for the pleasures of a bowl of stew. The text shows us that.

He sold the privileges that he could have had and exercised in his life for momentary pleasure.

Many of us have done the same after being born again.

Many who have traded righteousness for momentary pleasures have awakened to find that the gifts of the Spirit and the ministries of the Spirit that we desired after we came back to the Lord were somehow just a little out of our reach in this life.

We lived for the Lord after our repentance - but the potential we had available for our lives simply wasn't within our reach any more.

High position in Christ's body and the abilities to exercise authority in the Kingdom of God were sold for the momentary pleasures of this world. We didn't realize it at the time. We perhaps thought that we could simply repent later on and continue as if we had never given ourselves over to sin. But it was never the same.

I speak from experience when I say that we sold our "birthright".

Exactly how these things work in the realm of the spirit I do not know. But I do know that grieving the Spirit of God with whom we were sealed unto the day of redemption is a very serious thing indeed.

Like Esau though - we didn't sell our very life. How silly for anyone to read that into the text IMO.

Esau knew the value of the birthright. He just assumed once saved always saved, once a first born, always a first born.

 

[Matthew Twentyfour]

Never were. How do we know that? Just check the basis for their appeal to entering the kingdom: works. We are saved by grace through faith. They never believed. So they were never saved.

Why do you bother asking for scriptures about losing one's salvation if you would mock scriptures such as Matthew 7:22. They call Him Lord. Who else would call Christ Lord? They even cast out demons.....in His name, prophesied.....in His name, done many wonders......in His name. How do you know these are not people with spiritual gifts serving in His name? If you believe in Christ, how many of these have you performed in Christ's name?

So are you saying if anyone believes in Christ will later lose their salvation if they did any work in His name?

If this is what you believe, I hope you don't say "In Jesus' name" at the end of your prayers.

What's the difference between your faith in Christ vs the faith of demons who know Christ is the Son of God? Are demons saved too by grace through faith?

What about the 5 foolish virgins who were also denied? There's no mentioning of any works involved there.

Matthew 25:11-12
11 “Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open to us!’12 But he answered and said, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.’

 

[FreeGrace2]

Esau knew the value of the birthright. He just assumed once saved always saved, once a first born, always a first born.

This isn't an assumption. How can one lose being "first born"? What he lost was the privilege that goes with it.

The story of Esau is about loss of privilege, not loss of salvation. No one can change the order of their birth. And no one can change their birth parent, physically or spiritually.

Finally, the Bible never speaks of loss of salvation. It does speak of loss of reward and blessings through disobedience.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Why do you bother asking for scriptures about losing one's salvation if you would mock scriptures such as Matthew 7:22. They call Him Lord. Who else would call Christ Lord? They even cast out demons.....in His name, prophesied.....in His name, done many wonders......in His name. How do you know these are not people with spiritual gifts serving in His name? If you believe in Christ, how many of these have you performed in Christ's name?

First, the charge that I have "mocked" Matt 7:22 is ludicrous. Second, there are many people who believe they are Christians simply because of what they DO. Mother Theresa wrote a book in which the second chapter was entitled "We do it all for Jesus". Yet, after her death, some of her personal papers were discovered and revealed that she suffered a great deal of doubt about her own faith and salvation. Which figures because as a Catholic, one is saved by a combination of faith AND doing things, like keeping the sacraments. I believe the crowd in Matt 7:21-23 will be those like Mother Theresa, who thought they could get into the kingdom by their works. Didn't you read my previous response about that passage? They were banking on getting into the kingdom by what they DID. Got it? Not by what they believed. To miss that is to miss the whole point of what Jesus was making.

He began that passage by saying: “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter." v.21 So, what is the "will of the Father"? Jesus spoke of that in John 6:40 - “For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.” It is only those who believe in Christ who will receive eternal life and be saved.

Salvation is not about what we DO for Christ, but what we believe about Him and what He DID for us.

So are you saying if anyone believes in Christ will later lose their salvation if they did any work in His name?

Heavens, no. I AM saying that if anyone believes in Christ will NEVER lose their salvation.

If this is what you believe, I hope you don't say "In Jesus' name" at the end of your prayers.

I have no idea what your point is here.

What's the difference between your faith in Christ vs the faith of demons who know Christ is the Son of God?

First, there is NO such thing as "the faith of demons". Let's get this straight. James 2:19 doesn't say "faith of demons". It speaks about what demons believe, as in what they know as FACT. And in James 2:19, what they believe is that God is One, or monotheism. Is that saving faith? No, it isn't. Even the Pharisees during Jesus' time believed that and weren't saved.

But, even more importantly, Jesus never died for any angels, demons or the elect ones. So there is no comparison between humans and angels.

Are demons saved too by grace through faith?

Your questions are very disturbing. Why would anyone even think of such a question. No demons are "saved". In fact, there is no indication from Scripture that any angels have been saved.

What about the 5 foolish virgins who were also denied? There's no mentioning of any works involved there.

There is, but discernment reveals that. What were they denied? Salvation? No. entering into the wedding feast. This is a reference to oone of the eternal rewards reserved for the faithful believers. We see the same principle found in the wedding feast of Matt 22.

Matthew 25:11-12
11 “Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open to us!’12 But he answered and said, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.’

This is in contrast to Matt 7:23 where Jesus said "I NEVER knew you". In the parable of Matt 25, when the Bridegroom arrives, the door of entering the celebration will be closed (v.11-12). Recognition for inclusion is withdrawn.

Keep in mind that ALL 10 virgins were waiting for the Bridegroom (v.1). How can any be unbelievers? That doesn't make any sense.

 

[bling]

Please show where the Bible equates Esau's birthright with one's eternal life. The claim is false without any evidence to back it up.

You may have to think about it, but what else would the Hebrew writer be saying to the Christians he is addressing with: Heb. 12: 16 See that no one is sexually immoral, or is godless like Esau, who for a single meal sold his inheritance rights as the oldest son. What else does the Christian have as a “birthright” equivalent except his/her right to heaven? If that is given up you cannot get it back in the end.