Those who observe OT law are under a CURSE

[Frenchfrye]

All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do EVERYTHING written in the Book of the Law." Gal 3:10

Here are the facts of the matter.
1. The law was given to the Jews.
2. Gentiles are not required to follow the law.
3. When a person accepted Jesus, he is no longer required to follow the OT law but he is to follow the law of the Spirit.
4. If he still insists in following the OT law (for whatever reasons) and is not able to fulfill ALL, he is under a curse

where does it say taht gentiles dont have to follow the law?
it says clearly in your bible quote that ALL not some or the jews are cursed for not following the whole law
and without any human interference the ten commandments are about the only law that we should follow. all of the "laws" in the bible are ways of enforcing the laws.

 

[denim]

where does it say taht gentiles dont have to follow the law?
it says clearly in your bible quote that ALL not some or the jews are cursed for not following the whole law
and without any human interference the ten commandments are about the only law that we should follow. all of the "laws" in the bible are ways of enforcing the laws.

"5 But some believers from the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, "The gentiles must be circumcised and ordered to keep the Law of Moses.

6 So the apostles and the elders met to look into this claim.

7 After a lengthy debate, Peter stood up and told them, "Brothers, you know that in the early days God chose me to be the one among you through whom the gentiles would hear the message of the gospel and believe.

8 God, who knows everyone's heart, showed them he approved by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as he did to us.

9 He made no distinction between them and us, because of their faith-cleansed hearts.

10 So why do you test God by putting on the disciples' neck a yoke that neither our ancestors nor we could carry?

11 We certainly believe that it is through the grace of the Lord Jesus, the Messiah, that we are saved, just as they are."

Acts 15: 5-11

Peter argued that not only the Gentiles were not required to follow the OT laws, forcing the law on them would be an act of testing God.

 

[JLB777]

Can anyone show me from the Law of Moses where gentiles that live in other countries which are outside of Israel were required to keep The Law of Moses.


JLB

 

[SayaOtonashi]

The gentlies were under the law of Moses for the law of Moses was giving to Israel. Gentiles need to be circumcision to be under the law of Mose.

Romans 2:14

 

[SayaOtonashi]

https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/759-to-what-law-were-the-ancient-gentiles-accountable

The gentiles made no convent with god.

Patriarchal Law was what they were under.

 

[SayaOtonashi]

non-Israelite were gentiles so they couldn't make convert with god for god gave the law to Israel.

 

[Frenchfrye]

"5 But some believers from the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, "The gentiles must be circumcised and ordered to keep the Law of Moses.

6 So the apostles and the elders met to look into this claim.

7 After a lengthy debate, Peter stood up and told them, "Brothers, you know that in the early days God chose me to be the one among you through whom the gentiles would hear the message of the gospel and believe.

8 God, who knows everyone's heart, showed them he approved by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as he did to us.

9 He made no distinction between them and us, because of their faith-cleansed hearts.

10 So why do you test God by putting on the disciples' neck a yoke that neither our ancestors nor we could carry?

11 We certainly believe that it is through the grace of the Lord Jesus, the Messiah, that we are saved, just as they are."

Acts 15: 5-11

Peter argued that not only the Gentiles were not required to follow the OT laws, forcing the law on them would be an act of testing God.

actually Paul said that all must be circumcised of the heart, so actually you must be circumcised to be save

 

[denim]

actually Paul said that all must be circumcised of the heart, so actually you must be circumcised to be save

That's incorrect. We are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. (Eph 2:8). Circumcision does not save us. Circumcision of the heart comes AFTER we are saved.

 

[AnonUser2013]

Circumcision of heart is waaay different than of the flesh. That's the thing, Torah could never take care of the heart issues, never ever. The requirement of the flesh was a sign for the people of Israel, different time different covenant (law of Moses). Now the requirement isn't cutting of the foreskin but the cutting out of sin which Christ did when He washed us clean.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law." Gal 3:10

Essentially what it means is God's standard and quality control is 100% perfection. Even if there is a 0.0000001% blemish, it just won't cut it. That is why the Lamb Without Blemish had to die for us.

"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree" Gal 3:13

"For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is GUILTY OF ALL. " James 2:10

For those who like to pick and choose OT laws like observing Sabbath, giving tithes and circumcision and yet unable to fulfil the rest of the 600 plus law (which they probably cannot even if they try) - The bible says these people are under a curse.

Under the New Covenant, there is no more tithe (replaced by giving without compulsion), circumcision nor unclean food nor Sabbath nor ceremonial cleansing etc. Everything is no longer physical. They are in the heart - circumcision in the heart , law written on our hearts, giving as purposed in our hearts etc.

[FONT=Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]"For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God." Romans 2:28-29[/FONT]

Gal 2:11-13 records an incident at Antioch where apostle Paul opposed and reprimanded Peter and Barnabas for withdrawing from associating with Christians Gentiles due to fear of Christian Jews. Peter and Barnabas had tried to disassociate themselves from the uncircumcised Gentiles, in accordance with OT Law.

The OT Law was a precursor, temporary guardian (or tutor) till the coming of Christ. When Jesus came to fulfil the law, the OT law was rendered nullified. We were no longer saved by the Law but we were saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

"Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor." Gal 3:24-25

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God" (Eph 2:8)

Christians should never attempt to selectively observe OT Law and put themselves back in bondage under the Law of Sin and Death negating the good work of Jesus.

"For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death" Rom 8:2

The bible tells us to be " Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage." Gal 5:1

We should never resubmit ourselves back to the bondage of the Law of Sin and Death when Christ has already set us free.

How then shall we live our lives without rules, regulations and law?

Our law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus is written in our hearts (Heb 10:16) and the Holy Spirit shall guide us.

"But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come." John 16:13

QFT!



.

 

[JCFantasy23]

MOD HAT ON

This thread has been moved to the Sabbath and Law Forum

MOD HAT OFF

 

[annier]

Rely on it for what?

For righteousness unto Salvation in Christ.

 

[BobRyan]

All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law." Gal 3:10

Essentially what it means is God's standard and quality control is 100% perfection. Even if there is a 0.0000001% blemish, it just won't cut it. That is why the Lamb Without Blemish had to die for us.

"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree" Gal 3:13

"For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is GUILTY OF ALL. " James 2:10

Which is true for the lost. The lost person cannot find salvation by law keeping.

So then for the last person "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5 and "Love your Neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18 is not going to get their sins forgiven and open a door to heaven. Rather it is part of the Moral law of God convicting the lost of sin - and "Written on the heart and mind" under the Jer 31:31-33 "NEW Covenant" quoted in the NT Hebrews 8.

They must repent, accept the Gospel, be born again, walk by the Spirit - accept Christ as Saviour etc.

I think we all knew that much.

For those who like to pick and choose OT laws like observing Sabbath,

Nobody is picking and choosing "Honor your father and Mother" and "the Sabbath" and "Love your neighbor" as a way for the lost to earn salvation.

What is really neat is that so many "sunday sources" have also figured this basic Bible truth out and accepted it.

As all have been reminded dozens of times that list of sources includes

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson,
The Catholic Catechism.


Of course this basic Bible truth is also accepted by some groups not "bending" the 4th commandment at all such as

Seventh-day Baptists
Seventh-day Adventists (and 100's of other groups)


No wonder Paul said "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19 when contrasting the moral law to the ceremonial law.

No wonder Andy Stanley says that "taking God's name in vain includes claiming that God told you not to keep one of the Commandments" in his sermon on the 3rd commandment as he was preparing his church for the next week sermon on the 4th commandment.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[LarryP2]

Any argument that Christians must keep any part of the Mosaic Law is just dishonest about the structure and implementation of the Old Testament law, and indicates a severe ignorance about its applications. There are 613 Commandments, all of which are equally important, and all of them must be kept. Or none of them. There is NO distinction in the Mosaic Law between "ritualistic" and "moral" law. Sabbattarian Christians conjure up that self-serving distinction purely out of convenience. They have picked a few of the 613 Commandments at random, based on the ones that happen to tickle their fancy. That is willfully dishonest to the intent of the Law.

If you were to approach an rabbinical expert on the Mosaic Law, and announce self-righteously that you are "keeping the Ten Commandments," they would look on you as though you are mentally deranged. Under Mosaic Law, there is no such a thing as the "Ten Commandments." What we know as the "Decalogue" is subsumed into the overall structure of the 613 Commandments. Judaism does not regard the ten commandments as anything particularly unique or special in relationship to the other 603 Commandments. They are merely ten among many other laws of equal importance.

Out of the mandatory 613 Mosaic laws, Sabbattarians pick and choose a tiny handful that happily coincide with their overall goals of preening self-righteousness over other Christians. They flatter themselves all too easily. If you understand the way the Mosaic law works, all they have merely done is make themselves looks bizarre and foolish. The Apostles repeatedly denounced such behavior as "Judaizing." The Apostles were experts on the Mosaic Law. Sabbattarians are not.

For Christians, Colossians 2:16-17 means what it says.

For Christians, the AD 50 Council of Jerusalem emphatically means what it says: Gentile Christians shall not be bound by the Mosaic law.

Any argument that the Sabbath is a memorial of Creation indicates an profound ignorance of the original Hebrew that both Genesis and Exodus were written in. The writer of the book of Genesis took great pains to make it clear that the Sabbath did not begin at the 7th day of Creation. Hebrew scholars have made that point absolutely clear. The Sabbath commandment was not given to the Children of Israel until at least a month after their delivery from Egyptian slavery. Meanwhile, they would have unintentionally broken the Sabbath at least four times during their crossing of the Sinai. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that anyone kept the Sabbath prior to Sinai. NONE!

Christians began worshiping on Sunday no later than 1 week after the Resurrection. Christ then Ascended on a Sunday. The Day of Pentecost, the Church's Birthday was on a Sunday. It would have been BIZARRE if the early Christians had continued to keep the Sabbath, given the impact those three events clearly would have had on them. Why were all the early Christians in one place on a Sunday when the Day of Pentecost took place? Because they had started doing so in honor of the Resurrection. By the Day of Pentecost, it was an entrenched Christian custom already.

The argument for keeping just one pet commandment out of the 613 simply denigrates the obvious meaning of the crucifixion, the Resurrection, the Ascension and the Day of Pentecost. It is a Salvation by Works theory of "Partial Atonement." It is an argument that one must keep the entirety of the Mosaic Law, because Christ's sacrifice is not enough. Fortunately for Christians, even Christians who keep the Sabbath aren't even CLOSE to meeting that burden.

If you want to keep the Sabbath and the rest of the laws and have an ounce of integrity, you must go through the full-scale conversion process to Judaism that is mandatory. It is extremely highly-unlikely any Sabbattarian Christian would do that. For an unconverted Gentile to keep the Sabbath is such a serious offense against God and a defilement against the Sabbath, an observant Jew is required the impose the Death Penalty!.

Christians who keep the Sabbath are as bizarre as if they suddenly developed a yen to sacrifice some animals in their backyard temple. Or kept the Feast of the New Moons.

 

[maco]

Any argument that Christians must keep any part of the Mosaic Law is just dishonest about the structure and implementation of the Old Testament law, and indicates a severe ignorance about its applications. There are 613 Commandments, all of which are equally important, and all of them must be kept. Or none of them. There is NO distinction in the Mosaic Law between "ritualistic" and "moral" law. Sabbattarian Christians conjure up that self-serving distinction purely out of convenience. They have picked a few of the 613 Commandments at random, based on the ones that happen to tickle their fancy. That is willfully dishonest to the intent of the Law.

If you were to approach an rabbinical expert on the Mosaic Law, and announce self-righteously that you are "keeping the Ten Commandments," they would look on you as though you are mentally deranged. Under Mosaic Law, there is no such a thing as the "Ten Commandments." What we know as the "Decalogue" is subsumed into the overall structure of the 613 Commandments. Judaism does not regard the ten commandments as anything particularly unique or special in relationship to the other 603 Commandments. They are merely ten among many other laws of equal importance.

Out of the mandatory 613 Mosaic laws, Sabbattarians pick and choose a tiny handful that happily coincide with their overall goals of preening self-righteousness over other Christians. They flatter themselves all too easily. If you understand the way the Mosaic law works, all they have merely done is make themselves looks bizarre and foolish. The Apostles repeatedly denounced such behavior as "Judaizing." The Apostles were experts on the Mosaic Law. Sabbattarians are not.

For Christians, Colossians 2:16-17 means what it says.

For Christians, the AD 50 Council of Jerusalem emphatically means what it says: Gentile Christians shall not be bound by the Mosaic law.

Any argument that the Sabbath is a memorial of Creation indicates an profound ignorance of the original Hebrew that both Genesis and Exodus were written in. The writer of the book of Genesis took great pains to make it clear that the Sabbath did not begin at the 7th day of Creation. Hebrew scholars have made that point absolutely clear. The Sabbath commandment was not given to the Children of Israel until at least a month after their delivery from Egyptian slavery. Meanwhile, they would have unintentionally broken the Sabbath at least four times during their crossing of the Sinai. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that anyone kept the Sabbath prior to Sinai. NONE!

Christians began worshiping on Sunday no later than 1 week after the Resurrection. Christ then Ascended on a Sunday. The Day of Pentecost, the Church's Birthday was on a Sunday. It would have been BIZARRE if the early Christians had continued to keep the Sabbath, given the impact those three events clearly would have had on them. Why were all the early Christians in one place on a Sunday when the Day of Pentecost took place? Because they had started doing so in honor of the Resurrection. By the Day of Pentecost, it was an entrenched Christian custom already.

The argument for keeping just one pet commandment out of the 613 simply denigrates the obvious meaning of the crucifixion, the Resurrection, the Ascension and the Day of Pentecost. It is a Salvation by Works theory of "Partial Atonement." It is an argument that one must keep the entirety of the Mosaic Law, because Christ's sacrifice is not enough. Fortunately for Christians, even Christians who keep the Sabbath aren't even CLOSE to meeting that burden.

If you want to keep the Sabbath and the rest of the laws and have an ounce of integrity, you must go through the full-scale conversion process to Judaism that is mandatory. It is extremely highly-unlikely any Sabbattarian Christian would do that. For an unconverted Gentile to keep the Sabbath is such a serious offense against God and a defilement against the Sabbath, an observant Jew is required the impose the Death Penalty!.

Christians who keep the Sabbath are as bizarre as if they suddenly developed a yen to sacrifice some animals in their backyard temple. Or kept the Feast of the New Moons.

Man counts 613, God counts 10 and writes them with His own finger. The interesting thing is that the Ten Commandments are the only part of the Bible written with God's own finger.

 

[WithLoveFromAlyssa]

Why do we worship on Sunday instead of Saturday? | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry

What do you guys think of this article?

 

[maco]

Why do we worship on Sunday instead of Saturday? | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry

What do you guys think of this article?

http://www.christianforums.com/t7810441/#post65194760

 

[from scratch]

Why do we worship on Sunday instead of Saturday? | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry

What do you guys think of this article?

Over all I'd say reasonable and appealing to those without knowledge. Intent is great. I find the general idea to be correct and supportable by the full Bible. Some statements are based on the wrong calendar. Our week is now based on the Gregorian calendar and not the New Moon calendar. The Sabbath does occasional occur on our Saturday.

 

[from scratch]

http://www.christianforums.com/t7810441/#post65194760

As usual nothing here addresses the question.

 

[LarryP2]

Sabbath keeping has always been a minor, cultish practice for Christians that simply have not fully-comprehended the impact of the Resurrection. They have one foot in Judaism and the other in Christianity. It is an unspiritual "No Man's Land." Sabbath keeping is almost always tied logically to a "partial atonement" "salvation by works" system of spiritual bondage. It creates a dry and arid Christianity, and is a source of horrible cultish spiritual bondage. Many former Sabbath keepers have reported the dramatic difference between Sabbath-keeping and Sunday keeping Churches. The difference is pronounced.

In my mind, Sabbath Keeping is totally incompatible with allowing the Holy Spirit to write the Law of Jesus Christ on your heart. There is no way around that. The Seventh Day Adventist claim that Constantine or the Pope "changed the day" is just a brazen and ignorant lie, and has been utterly disproven by their own Sabbath Scholar. The hilarious logical impact of Samuele Bachiochi's extreme-Judaism interpretation of Colossians 2:16-17 is that Sabbath Keepers must now keep the Yearly, Monthly and New Moons Sabbaths, as well as all of the Jewish Feast Days and Holidays! Under Bachiochi's regime, merely keeping the 7th Day is no longer adequate. Additionally, many "traditional" Seventh Day Adventists, who are truly honest and logical about their doctrine must now resume animal sacrifices and some of them are building their own backyard Temples! You see these poor, ignorant deluded souls walking around in Jewish Robes and getting comfortable with their new animal sacrifice requirements. It is just gut-busting hilarious.

Pay no attention to these absurd Sabbath cultists. They simply cannot be taken seriously until they build their own backyard Temples and get busy with animal sacrifices. It is interesting how Sabbatarians emphasize Jesus's statements about the Sabbath, but carefully AVOID his Temple worship and close following of all of the other Mosaic law requirements. It just demonstrates their dishonesty.

Clearly, Christianity rejected Sabbath Keeping right from the start. According to the Eastern Orthodox (who kept good records of this), "Resurrection Day" worship started a week after Christ's Resurrection. The Apostles left an absolutely crystal clear record of denouncing Sabbath-keepers as Judaizers. Sunday has ALWAYS been the Christian day of worship.

Nobody kept the Sabbath pre-Sinai. No Hebrew scholar agrees with a creation-driven Sabbath commandment custom prior to Sinai. Any interpretation of Genesis that suggests a Sabbath requirement is just a false misinterpretation. Abraham was given the Noahide laws. Sabbath keeping was conspicuously absent from his covenant.

Sabbath Keepers are miserable Judaizers and utterly clueless about early Christian history, the structure of the Mosaic legal system, pre-Sinai history, and a correct interpretation of the Hebrew language in Genesis.

Poor deluded souls.