evolution vs. Evolution

[Smidlee]

@ frogman2X
What gluadys is referring to is science uses "The present as the key to the past" but if you read much science you will discover this "key" often doesn't fit. Scientist usually comes up with a story why the key doesn't fit.

From what I've read I don't believe man/scientist can turn over a few rocks and claim to know what happen millions of years ago yet they seem to have a lot of people fooled.

 

[gluadys]

From what I've read I don't believe man/scientist can turn over a few rocks and claim to know what happen millions of years ago yet they seem to have a lot of people fooled.

Of course not. That would be divination, not science. That is not what the phrase means.

 

[frogman2x]

@ frogman2X
What gluadys is referring to is science uses "The present as the key to the past" but if you read much science you will discover this "key" often doesn't fit. Scientist usually comes up with a story why the key doesn't fit.

From what I've read I don't believe man/scientist can turn over a few rocks and claim to know what happen millions of years ago yet they seem to have a lot of people fooled.

The old saying that great minds tends to think alike is true.

kermit

 

[Fascinated With God]

Hanging your faith on pockets of ignorance makes a continually shrinking "God of the Gaps". There is no need to do that - especially when realizing that God works through all things, all the time (see John 5:17) makes all these things the creative action of God anyway. To miss that is to fall for the atheist's line that God is banished from everything, when instead He is omnipresent.

This is very true, Creationist do fall for atheistic misconceptions, just as all people involved in obsessive conflicts tend to mirror each other, like Arabs and Israelis for example. They cannot see that God actually does work through all things. This is a point of view they cannot accept, and so no Creationist offered a counter point to Papias' point here.

Jesus said to them, "My Father is always at his work to this very day..."

 

[Fascinated With God]

Also, Creationists strive to limit God. The idea of God working over awesome timescales makes them insecure, so they deny that God can work over awesome timescales to accomplish His goals.

Trying to put limitations on God is a very bad idea.

 

[Fascinated With God]

What is the purpose of a miracle? It is to awaken faith. Point to me a single miracle in the Bible that did not serve to awaken faith in those who witnessed and heard about it. (Sometimes miracles are also used to point out those who will never have faith, such as the plagues on Egypt, but that is really just two sides of the same coin, it is still about faith.)

So how do any of your Creationist miracles serve to awaken faith? They do not, they only serve as a very malleable excuse for just about anything you want to believe. Nothing more. No connection with awakening faith.

 

[EternalDragon]

Also, Creationists strive to limit God. The idea of God working over awesome timescales makes them insecure, so they deny that God can work over awesome timescales to accomplish His goals.

Trying to put limitations on God is a very bad idea.

Actually it is a fact based on scripture. God could have done it in a second, in an hour or taken a million years. What he actually had men record is that He did it in 6 days and rested on the 7th. He did it in seven actual days for a reason.

Also, God gave a genealogy tracing back to Adam that shows the Earth is not millions of years old from day 6 which speaks against ape to man evolution. Even if there were longer time periods in the first few creation days it would not confirm evolution.

You can choose not to believe the scriptures but to say creationists limit God or are insecure is false characterization.

 

[Calminian]

Actually it is a fact based on scripture. God could have done it in a second, in an hour or taken a million years. What he actually had men record is that He did it in 6 days and rested on the 7th. He did it in seven actual days for a reason.

Also, God gave a genealogy tracing back to Adam that shows the Earth is not millions of years old from day 6 which speaks against ape to man evolution. Even if there were longer time periods in the first few creation days it would not confirm evolution.

You can choose not to believe the scriptures but to say creationists limit God or are insecure is false characterization.

Well said. It's a fallacious accusation. He may have well have said the Bible limits God.

 

[Fascinated With God]

No, it is your interpretation of the Bible that is trying to put limitations on God.

You folks always get your interpretation confused with the Bible itself, as if you had a direct line to God and only your interpretation could possibly be correct. This approach involves just as much arrogance and lack of humility as the atheist approach.

 

[frogman2x]

No, it is your interpretation of the Bible that is trying to put limitations on God.

You folks always get your interpretation confused with the Bible itself, as if you had a direct line to God and only your interpretation could possibly be correct. This approach involves just as much arrogance and lack of humility as the atheist approach.

There is nothing wrong or arrogant with thinking one's interpretation is correct. If we didn't think it was correct, we would change it.

I bet you think your interpretations is correct, right?

kermit

 

[The Barbarian]

Actually it is a fact based on scripture. God could have done it in a second, in an hour or taken a million years. What he actually had men record is that He did it in 6 days and rested on the 7th. He did it in seven actual days for a reason.

Actually, it uses "Yom", and that can mean various things, such as "day", "in my time", "ages" and so on. So it doesn't says "literal days." And, as the ancient Christians like Augustine noted, it was absurd to have literal mornings and evenings without a Sun.

Also, God gave a genealogy tracing back to Adam

Actually, the Bible has two. But they don't match up. There's one in Matthew, and one in Luke.

that shows the Earth is not millions of years old from day 6 which speaks against ape to man evolution.

Physicists, not biologists, were the first to demonstrate that the Earth was very ancient. And the evidence is compelling. Would you like to learn about it?

You can choose not to believe the scriptures but to say creationists limit God or are insecure is false characterization.

Creationists seem very uncomfortable with a God powerful enough to use creation to serve His purposes.

 

[frogman2x]

Actually, it uses "Yom", and that can mean various things, such as "day", "in my time", "ages" and so on. So it doesn't says "literal days." And, as the ancient Christians like Augustine noted, it was absurd to have literal mornings and evenings without a Sun.

However,when it is used with a number it ALWAYS refers to a 24 hour day as we know it.

Actually, the Bible has two. But they don't match up. There's one in Matthew, and one in Luke.

Actually they do match up if you know how to do it.

Physicists, not biologists, were the first to demonstrate that the Earth was very ancient. And the evidence is compelling. Would you like to learn about it?

I would. Would you start with how they explained how all of the matter in the universe originated.

Creationists seem very uncomfortable with a God powerful enough to use creation to serve His purposes.

I don't know where you got that idea but having an omnipotent God taking care of His creation is very comforting to all the Christians I know.

kermit

 

[frogman2x]

This is very true, Creationist do fall for atheistic misconceptions, just as all people involved in obsessive conflicts tend to mirror each other, like Arabs and Israelis for example. They cannot see that God actually does work through all things. This is a point of view they cannot accept, and so no Creationist offered a counter point to Papias' point here.

Maybe you could name a few atheistic misconceptions we fall for.

Jesus said to them, "My Father is always at his work to this very day..."

It interesting that God did not work to bring the universe into being. He just spoke and it happened.

k

kermit

 

[frogman2x]

Also, Creationists strive to limit God.

That is just plain silly. Mayb e you don;t understand the doctrine taht God is omniopentent. We do not strive to limt God, we strive to give Him all teh powre in the unverse.

The idea of God working over awesome timescales makes them insecure, so they deny that God can work over awesome timescales to accomplish His goals.

You need to get a better source for the things you say. So far none I have read are true. You seem ignorant of what creationists believe and what makes the insecure.

I think challanging the opinions of the evolutionists make them insecure. After all you can't prove anything the ToE preaches and I can prove more in the first chapter of Genesis than their whole bundle of unscidentific opinions.

Trying to put limitations on God is a very bad idea.

You are right, so why are you doing it?

kermit

 

[frogman2x]

Well said. It's a fallacious accusation. He may have well have said the Bible limits God.

That the Bible limits God is even more fallacious. How does having an omniopetent God limit Him? Maybe you do not understand "omniopetent."

kermit

 

[Smidlee]

Also, Creationists strive to limit God. The idea of God working over awesome timescales makes them insecure, so they deny that God can work over awesome timescales to accomplish His goals.

Trying to put limitations on God is a very bad idea.

Since I believe God created time I don't believe it takes Him billion of years to create something. I believe universe was created just as the Bible says, God spoke it into existence (by His Word) as just as easily as man can create a universe (World of Warcraft) by typing on a keyboard. The scripture does state the creation was His finger work even though I doubt God actually type on a computer. Just as someone playing WoW can't determine it's origins within the game but must have access to the hidden code so man inside the universe can't explain it's origins within the universe. This is why man comes up with silly theories like the Big Bang even though he has no idea how star could be formed after the BB without stars already existing.

 

[gluadys]

It interesting that God did not work to bring the universe into being. He just spoke and it happened.

k

kermit

That is not the testimony of scripture.

And on the seventh day, God finished the work that he had done, and he rested on the seventh day from all the work he had done. Genesis 2:2

In six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed. Exodus 31:17

Sounds like speaking is tiring work for God, that he needs to be refreshed after it is completed.

 

[frogman2x]

That is not the testimony of scripture.

And on the seventh day, God finished the work that he had done, and he rested on the seventh day from all the work he had done. Genesis 2:2

In six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed. Exodus 31:17

Sounds like speaking is tiring work for God, that he needs to be refreshed after it is completed.

You make a good point but try this---God SAID let there be light and there was light. That is the theme we see throughout Gen 1 and 2.

Also Ps 33:6 - By the word of the Lord the heavens were made, and by he breath of His mouth all of thier hosts.

The basic meaning of "rested" is to cease from an activity.

We also have Isa 40:28 - Do you not know? Have you not heard? The Everlasting God, the Lord, the Creator of the ends of the earth does not become weary or tired....

Would God be omniopetent if He got tired?

kermit

 

[Fascinated With God]

There is nothing wrong or arrogant with thinking one's interpretation is correct. If we didn't think it was correct, we would change it.

I bet you think your interpretations is correct, right?

Most Creationists don't just think they are correct, they think they are the only true Christians and that anyone who thinks differently is not really a Christian. That is fanatical religious bigotry rather than simple conviction. Atheists often demonstrate a very similar fanatical antireligious bigotry. They are both just two sides of the same coin.







.

 

[Fascinated With God]

Q: If the awesome size of the universe is not a threat to YEC's and is easily taken as a sign of God's awesome power, why is the awesome age of the universe not taken in the same fashion, as most Christians do?

Creationists have a fundamental space/time mismatch. Why is time in your opinion so profoundly different than space and size in terms of whether or not it demonstrates the awesome power of God?