Paraphrase bibles (The Message, Living bible, etc...)

[Svt4Him]

But even literal will have issues as it doesn't recognize idioms and phrases, ergo you need a man's viewpoint.

For instance, I translated God is far out! from Japanese, and I get "God is distant". A literal translation in this case is not the best. But it is not an error if one translates it that way.

 

[Elijah2]

I don't think that paraphrase bibles are somehow inherently evil, I just think that they are a misguided work.

We are to rely upon The Holy Spirit to teach us and lead us into all truth, and He more than any man knows how to reveal the scripture to us since it was He who wrote them through mankind.

If I lean up mankind for understanding, I effectively limit myself of that true teaching.

It's sad when someone says that someone has said that paraphrase bibles are evil and they hate them, as I haven't heard anyone say that at all. But, many have shown that some of the content of paraphrase versions that are not the Bible distort and misrepresent the very important phrases. One such book us many new age and occultic terms that are not Biblical.

For an example, the “Lord” appears 7970 times in the KJV, more than any other noun in the Bible, but it ranks 14th among the most occurring words in the KJV. The 13th is the single letter “a”, and the “helper words”, such as “the”; “of”; “in”; “to”, occur more often.

One such paraphrased version, the “Lord” appears only 71 times, and ranks 1087th among the words used in this specific paraphrased version. “Lord” appears the same number of times as such words as “question” or “reputation”.

In the New Testament of this paraphrased version, the Testament of our Lord Jesus Christ, “Lord” appears only 23 times. This paraphrased version NEVER directly honours our Lord Jesus Christ as “Lord”.

The "Lord Jesus" occurs 118 times, and “Lord Jesus Christ” occurs 84 times in the KJV. The phrase “Lord Jesus Christ” or “Lord Jesus” is completely omitted from this paraphrased version, which is an outright denial of our Lord Jesus Christ, and has never occurred in ANY other paraphrased version or so-called modern translations.

We are led to believe that paraphrased versions are written in a flow of thought and context with the Greek and Hebrew meaning, but I've found that NOT to be so. Those most important phrases, direction, warnings are distorted and changed that it leaves much to be desired of where those who read will end up by reading paraphrased version of His Word.

Many will say they love such, and then later on down the track when you are trying to bring those people to Biblical and spiritual logic their mind has been brainwashed, and will not receive the "incorruptible seed".

After all:


NKJV:
"Since you have purified your souls in obeying the TRUTH through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the Word of God, which lives and abides forever, because all flesh is a grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of the grass. The grass withers, and its flowers falls away, but the Word of the Lord endures forever. Now this is the word which by the gospel was preached to you" (1 Pet. 1:23-25).


The Message:
“Now that you've cleaned up your lives by following the truth, love one another as if your lives depended on it. Your new life is not like your old life. Your old birth came from mortal sperm; your new birth comes from God's living Word. Just think: a life conceived by God himself! That's why the prophet said, the old life is a grass life, its beauty as short-lived as wildflowers; grass dries up, flowers droop, God's Word goes on and on forever. This is the Word that conceived the new life in you.” (1 Pet. 1:22-25)

CEV:
“You obeyed the truth, and your souls were made pure. Now you sincerely love each other. But you must keep on loving with all your heart. Do this because God has given you new birth by his message that lives on forever. The Scriptures say, "Humans wither like grass, and their glory fades like wild flowers. Grass dries up, and flowers fall to the ground. But what the Lord has said will stand forever. Our good news to you is what the Lord has said.” (1 Pet. 1:22-25)

New Living Translation:
“You were cleansed from your sins when you obeyed the truth, so now you must show sincere love to each other as brothers and sisters. Love each other deeply with all your heart. For you have been born again, but not to a life that will quickly end. Your new life will last forever because it comes from the eternal, living word of God. As the Scriptures say, ‘People are like grass; their beauty is like a flower in the field. The grass withers and the flower fades. But the word of the Lord remains forever.’ And that word is the Good News that was preached to you.” (1 Pet. 1:22-25)

This is just some of my thoughts and two cents worth on using paraphrased versions.

 

[ARBITER01]

But even literal will have issues as it doesn't recognize idioms and phrases, ergo you need a man's viewpoint.

For instance, I translated God is far out! from Japanese, and I get "God is distant". A literal translation in this case is not the best. But it is not an error if one translates it that way.

I don't think you captured what I said. The translation that is going to be the least opinionated and personalized will be the literal one.

I don't see growing, maturing Christians gravitating towards a paraphrase, I really don't.

 

[imperfectchristian]

I don't see growing, maturing Christians gravitating towards a paraphrase, I really don't.

So you are saying that I am not a growing, maturing Christian.

So this is how spiritual growth is measured?

Is that a Biblical way to measure spiritual growth?

 

[ARBITER01]

So you are saying that I am not a growing, maturing Christian.

So this is how spiritual growth is measured?

Is that a Biblical way to measure spiritual growth?

If you wish to take what I said as personal, you may, that don't mean I'm about to change what I said.

A professional bible will be one that is exact and precise, not one that is loose in it's translation or opinionated by the author(s). Jesus was not loose in His use of GOD's word before folks, nor did He freelance things out of the OT to satan while He was tempted, should we start doing that if He didn't?

My answer is no. I want an actual translation, not an interpretation.

 

[cyberlizard]

I think in some respects classical judaism has it sorted.... they only have one text which is accepted, and there are only two popular translations, the artscroll tanakh and the JPS.

If it were not for the difficulty many of us have in learning a foreign language, you have to ask, wouldn't it be better if we all learned hebrew and greek, then the need for translations (and/or paraphrases) would dissappear.


Steve

p.s. i recommend people translate at least one gospel for themselves - sure it is hard but it is worth it.

 

[Floatingaxe]

We must all use translations for elucidation by God, but there is nothing wrong with using a paraphrase for broader help.

After all, when we speak to others of the Lord, do we all have the Word in place by memory? Hardly. So, what do we find ourselves doing? That's right----paraphrasing!

Mr. Peterson, a writer, has done it well, and better than most of us. I like to hitchhike on those i know who know the Word, don't you?

 

[cyberlizard]

the problem with hitch-hiking is you never really know the motivation of the driver of the vehicle, whether he will let you out, or what will happen on the journey one the way.

Steve

p.s. better to get your own car - study the scriptures for yourself to you have memorised them.

 

[Floatingaxe]

the problem with hitch-hiking is you never really know the motivation of the driver of the vehicle, whether he will let you out, or what will happen on the journey one the way.

Steve

p.s. better to get your own car - study the scriptures for yourself to you have memorised them.

I have memorized some to many. I do study Scripture, and yet SOMETIMES I like to look at The Message. There is no wrong in it. The Lord speaks to me through it also.

That said, as a discipler to new believers, I would not advise a brand new believer to use it until he or she has adopted a pattern of reading the Word daily.

Our pastors (we have 8 of them)and many of our church family refer to it occasionally. Even my brother-in-law who has pastored churches uses it once in a while, and my own mother, who has been in a pastoral ministry used it occasionally and was very blessed by it.

We have many mature and on-fire believers in our church family, so any notion that mature believers don't read from The Message is only opinion.

 

[Tenebrae]

I look at it this way

If God can use an Ass to get His point across, He can certainly use a paraphrase of the bible.

 

[KleinerApfel]

I look at it this way

If God can use an Ass to get His point across, He can certainly use a paraphrase of the bible.

You're right, but remember too - God spoke through an ass once, briefly, for a very specific communication.

If Baalam or anyone else had spent much longer trying to extract further wisdom from it after God had moved on by, they might have got a nasty shock at what came out!

I was once touched by God through a word given in church. I didn't know it was "The Message" translation until I got home and looked for the words online.
However, having done that I saw that the literal meaning of the words was completely different, nothing even remotely connected. I laughed, because yes, God spoke through it, despite my religious scruples!

I still say though - if this was merely a man's thoughts, feelings and flashes of inspiration rather than a Bible translation, why does he promote it and label it as a bible? That really is wrong, because some will read it and nothing else and believe they are getting pure, unadulterated scripture, which they are not.

All he had to do was be honest about what the book is - as have the authors of countless prayer books, inspired poetry, stories akin to parables, commentaries, re-written bible stories...they all have merit, but they do not make the false claim of being scripture. For that reason I can enjoy and learn from them.

 

[Elijah2]

It's sad when someone says that someone has said that paraphrase bibles are evil and they hate them, as I haven't heard anyone say that at all. But, many have shown that some of the content of paraphrase versions that are not the Bible distort and misrepresent the very important phrases. One such book us many new age and occultic terms that are not Biblical.

For an example, the “Lord” appears 7970 times in the KJV, more than any other noun in the Bible, but it ranks 14th among the most occurring words in the KJV. The 13th is the single letter “a”, and the “helper words”, such as “the”; “of”; “in”; “to”, occur more often.

One such paraphrased version, the “Lord” appears only 71 times, and ranks 1087th among the words used in this specific paraphrased version. “Lord” appears the same number of times as such words as “question” or “reputation”.

In the New Testament of this paraphrased version, the Testament of our Lord Jesus Christ, “Lord” appears only 23 times. This paraphrased version NEVER directly honours our Lord Jesus Christ as “Lord”.

The "Lord Jesus" occurs 118 times, and “Lord Jesus Christ” occurs 84 times in the KJV. The phrase “Lord Jesus Christ” or “Lord Jesus” is completely omitted from this paraphrased version, which is an outright denial of our Lord Jesus Christ, and has never occurred in ANY other paraphrased version or so-called modern translations.

We are led to believe that paraphrased versions are written in a flow of thought and context with the Greek and Hebrew meaning, but I've found that NOT to be so. Those most important phrases, direction, warnings are distorted and changed that it leaves much to be desired of where those who read will end up by reading paraphrased version of His Word.

Many will say they love such, and then later on down the track when you are trying to bring those people to Biblical and spiritual logic their mind has been brainwashed, and will not receive the "incorruptible seed".

After all:


NKJV:
"Since you have purified your souls in obeying the TRUTH through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the Word of God, which lives and abides forever, because all flesh is a grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of the grass. The grass withers, and its flowers falls away, but the Word of the Lord endures forever. Now this is the word which by the gospel was preached to you" (1 Pet. 1:23-25).


The Message:
“Now that you've cleaned up your lives by following the truth, love one another as if your lives depended on it. Your new life is not like your old life. Your old birth came from mortal sperm; your new birth comes from God's living Word. Just think: a life conceived by God himself! That's why the prophet said, the old life is a grass life, its beauty as short-lived as wildflowers; grass dries up, flowers droop, God's Word goes on and on forever. This is the Word that conceived the new life in you.” (1 Pet. 1:22-25)

CEV:
“You obeyed the truth, and your souls were made pure. Now you sincerely love each other. But you must keep on loving with all your heart. Do this because God has given you new birth by his message that lives on forever. The Scriptures say, "Humans wither like grass, and their glory fades like wild flowers. Grass dries up, and flowers fall to the ground. But what the Lord has said will stand forever. Our good news to you is what the Lord has said.” (1 Pet. 1:22-25)

New Living Translation:
“You were cleansed from your sins when you obeyed the truth, so now you must show sincere love to each other as brothers and sisters. Love each other deeply with all your heart. For you have been born again, but not to a life that will quickly end. Your new life will last forever because it comes from the eternal, living word of God. As the Scriptures say, ‘People are like grass; their beauty is like a flower in the field. The grass withers and the flower fades. But the word of the Lord remains forever.’ And that word is the Good News that was preached to you.” (1 Pet. 1:22-25)

This is just some of my thoughts and two cents worth on using paraphrased versions.

 

[Alpine]

I don't see growing, maturing Christians gravitating towards a paraphrase, I really don't.

Controversial statement coming.






I'm not sure the bible is essential for growing in Christ. It helps, but is not essential.

 

[JimB]

A paraphrase makes no claims to being an accurate translation of scripture. It is a paraphrase, an interpretation. You know that going into it, if you read the introduction. Most preachers paraphrase the Bible when they are preaching and have to recall a scripture off the top of their head. Like the preacher on TV this past week (during the outrageous TBN beg-a-thon) who told us, quote, “Don’t the Bible say that Bill Gates’ money is laid up for Christians” (and all the people whooped or went into a swoon).

Except, the Bible does not say that. That interpretation would encourage covetousness.

To quote Prov. 13.22 from another paraphrase (the Message), “A good life gets passed on to the grandchildren; ill-gotten wealth ends up with good people.”

The Message may be a loose paraphrase but not as loose as what I heard on TBN and you probably heard on Sunday.

~Jim

It seems to be a universal irony that when people are free to do what they want they usually imitate one another.​

​

 

[heron]

I would equate it with a movie about the Bible. A writer is trying to communicate a story in a different way, so they add and remove and try to direct light on different things they value. With a movie, it's easy to see that it's not trying to be the Bible.

But with a book that sits on the shelf with other Bibles, that line is not drawn. I wouldn't have known that so many discrepancies were in The Message unless someone brought it up. I might have even bought it for someone without thinking.

 

[imperfectchristian]

If you wish to take what I said as personal, you may, that don't mean I'm about to change what I said.

A professional bible will be one that is exact and precise, not one that is loose in it's translation or opinionated by the author(s). Jesus was not loose in His use of GOD's word before folks, nor did He freelance things out of the OT to satan while He was tempted, should we start doing that if He didn't?

My answer is no. I want an actual translation, not an interpretation.

You characterize a whole group of people because they prefer the message Bible. What about someone who is slow mentally, who reads the Message Bible because it helps them understand in ways that literal translations cannot? Does that make that person less spiritual, than some one who is more educated, who knows how to correctly interpret, research and understand context and idioms above the ordinary person?

What about the lady who takes her Message Bible to the children's hospital and reads stories to the children because they can understand it's story outline whereas they could not understand the same thing read out of the NASB....does that make them less spiritual?

See how obsurd and degrading a statement like that can be?

You say that you want an actual translation...good for you...I love literal translations as well, but that does not make either one of us more spiritual than someone who reads only a paraphrase.

God is no respecter of persons or intellects.

 

[imperfectchristian]

Controversial statement coming.






I'm not sure the bible is essential for growing in Christ. It helps, but is not essential.

I suppose if we wanted to be technically hypothetical that is true.

I have personally seen and am aware of the Bible being used to cause tremendous hurt, divison, strife, the severing of friendships and fellowships, to justify human atrocities, etc...

People the world over use the Bible and Christianity for the purposes of evil. Does that make the Bible or Christianity evil? Some non-believers would say yes.

Of course we as believers do not believe that, but what we should realize from it is that a relationship with God is not defined by reading or even preaching Scripture or holding to a paticular doctrinal belief.

It's those who do the will of the Father that are His children.

 

[jeolmstead]

Now that we have established that the KJV is the only inspired version, we now need to know which inspired KJV we are to use.


The Inspired Baptist KJV that teaches all the manifest gifts died with the apostles

The Inspired Church of Christ KJV that teaches instrumental music in church is a sin

The Inspired Pentecostal Oneness KJV that teaches there is no trinity

Perhaps we could use the Inspired Mormon version of the KJV or the Jehovah Witness version.

Have you ever thought that the power may not be in the word that’s printed?

Maybe it is the breath of the living God that inspires scripture (or doesn’t).

IMHO the Message is not my favorite paraphrase, but God has spoken to me through it and it is just one of several I read.

I do not idolize any of the translations. In themselves they are just books.

I worship the God they point to.

John O.

 

[MungDaal]

by cracky, there be only one version of the Bible and that be the Authorized Version

 

[JimB]

by cracky, there be only one version of the Bible and that be the Authorized Version

Which AV, the original 1611 version (which hardly anybody today can read) or the 1769 fourth edition AV (the one we read today)?

~Jim

It seems to be a universal irony that when people are free to do what they want they usually imitate one another.​