Can a believer forfeit salvation?

[NorrinRadd]

... I'M GOING TO GO PUK!

Oh yeah? Well I'm going to go Oberon!

 

[MosesMyFriend]

Which is more pleasing in God's eyes:
A man who says:
I have no need to turn away from sin,
God will forgive me.
Or the man who says:
God bought me with a price,
so I must honor God with my body?


Here is a word from God today:

To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, "If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."


They answered him, "We are Abraham's descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?"

Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. I know you are Abraham's descendants. Yet you are ready to kill me, because you have no room for my word. I am telling you what I have seen in the Father's presence, and you do what you have heard from your father."

"Abraham is our father," they answered.
"If you were Abraham's children," said Jesus, "then you would do the things Abraham did. As it is, you are determined to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. You are doing the things your own father does."

"We are not illegitimate children," they protested.

"The only Father we have is God himself."

Yet they could not understand
that Jesus was saying that although they were calling themselves God children,
they were not
because they were doing the evil things that their real father did.
Abraham was a good man, yet they were not good men.
We must do good, we must turn from slavery to sin, in Jesus' name. Amen.

scriptures from 1 Cor 6:20 and John 8:31-41

 

[DiscipleWhomJesusLoves]

Rightly divide the word, the cross happened.

 

[MosesMyFriend]

Rightly divide the word, the cross happened.

My friend, I say amen, the cross did happen for us.
But I think that we are disagreeing on what that meant for us.
I will tell you what I have come to know about this.
There are two sides.
One side says that Jesus died to give us the Holy Spirit so that we could live a holy life.
The other side says that Jesus died for some other reason.
I do know that in either case,
It was the sacrifice of Jesus that brings us salvation.

 

[MosesMyFriend]

Pray about this brother.
Ask the Lord to show you where in scripture it says that we cannot lose our salvation.
Also you can ask Him to show you where it says that we can lose our salvation.
God will surely answer the man who seeks to know His will.

 

[DiscipleWhomJesusLoves]

Pray about this brother.
Ask the Lord to show you where in scripture it says that we cannot lose our salvation.
Also you can ask Him to show you where it says that we can lose our salvation.
God will surely answer the man who seeks to know His will.

I've already done that years ago. It was a journey and I've come to know what the truth is. You may not agree. It doesn't matter. We walk according to the light with have.

Scriptures? I've already posted tonnes of them in my various threads. I've posted those which clearly support OSAS and I've posted and 'rebutted' those which seem to support OSNAS.

 

[Meshavrischika]

Oh yeah? Well I'm going to go Oberon!

hahahaha

you read my mind

 

[enoch son]

Need a bucket?

so hot and cool didn't come to your mind? I think you need to ask Jesus if he needs one to check out one's love. Yours in christ ken

 

[NewSong]

Oh yeah? Well I'm going to go Oberon!

LOL

 

[NewSong]

There are so many warnings in the new testament about wolves among the flock. How could we have wolves amongst us and many of us becoming decieved if they didn't seem holy?

I think it's totally possible.

I think that is a great point.

 

[Yekcidmij]

John 6:35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. The one who comes to me will never go hungry, and the one who believes in me will never be thirsty. 6:36 But I told you that you have seen me and still do not believe. 6:37 Everyone whom the Father gives me will come to me, and the one who comes to me I will never send away. 6:38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my own will but the will of the one who sent me. 6:39 Now this is the will of the one who sent me – that I should not lose one person of every one he has given me, but raise them all up at the last day. 6:40 For this is the will of my Father – for everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him to have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.”

 

[MosesMyFriend]

John 6:35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. The one who comes to me will never go hungry, and the one who believes in me will never be thirsty. 6:36 But I told you that you have seen me and still do not believe. 6:37 Everyone whom the Father gives me will come to me, and the one who comes to me I will never send away. 6:38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my own will but the will of the one who sent me. 6:39 Now this is the will of the one who sent me – that I should not lose one person of every one he has given me, but raise them all up at the last day. 6:40 For this is the will of my Father – for everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him to have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.”

amen to this.
This is scripture
and it is true.
God's will is that we will not be lost.
But we still have free will after we have received the gift of life in Jesus.
Although God wills us not to be lost, we can always choose to sin.
And sins have their consequence.

I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I will spit you out of my mouth.

Rev 3:15-16

A warning for us.
We must be on fire with love for God and neighbor.
Otherwise, we will get spit out of Jesus mouth.

God has no favorites!
He shows no partiality.
We reap what we sow.

I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your deeds complete in the sight of my God. Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you. Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy.

Rev 3:1-4

The full gospel teaching on OSAS right here!
We belong to the church,
yet our deeds have brought us death afterwards.
We have soiled our white clothes.
We must repent.
Those who haven't soiled their clothes are still worthy.
We must repent.

All of the warnings to the churches in Revelation are about what we have done (our deeds) after we have been brought into the church.

If OSAS were true, these warnings have no purpose.
We would have a different message to us there.
An OSAS message.

 

[KleinerApfel]

The warnings are to churches, not individuals, to wake up the institutions to reality, to deal with the problems in the organisation, not threatening those who are in Christ.

 

[MosesMyFriend]

The warnings are to churches, not individuals, to wake up the institutions to reality, to deal with the problems in the organisation, not threatening those who are in Christ.

Please re-read them again my friend.
the problems that Jesus is warning about is not organization.
LOL
The problems are unrepented sins.
Turn back!

 

[JimB]

Bump.

I do not believe it is possible for a believer to sin away their salvation. Our sin has been atoned for.

But I do believe that a believer can forfeit their salvation by a deliberate act of the will. IMO, our freewill remains intact even after we are saved. Would God allow you in heaven if you chose to no longer believe in His Son? Would He take you to heaven kicking and screaming if you did not want to go?

~Jim

If God made you rich, would he gain a fortune or lose a man.​

 

[TheMatmanReturns]

Very logical.

Can a believer forfeit salvation?

For the record …

1. I do not believe that a Christian can “lose” their salvation like they can lose their car keys. Losing something is an involuntary act, an accident.
​

2. Nor do I believe that a Christian can "sin away" their salvation. Christ atoned for all sins once and for all.
​

But I do believe …

A person’s free will to choose their eternal fate remains in tact even after they become believers—IOW, God does not take away our right to choose our eventual destiny when we become believers. We do not become robots, cyborgs the instant we are saved. A Christian has every God-given right to choose to no longer believe, if they so wish.


Interesting example:

One of the best examples of this is Charles Templeton (1915-2001), a Canadian and colleague of Billy Graham in the 1940s, one of the most promising evangelists of the early postwar period and co-creator and initial leading voice of Youth With A Mission. Templeton became a believer in 1936 after experiencing a crisis of faith in a revival meeting, followed by a meteoric rise to become one of the world’s most gifted preachers, whose oratorical skills, some said, surpassed that of his partner Billy Graham’s. In 1948 he attended Princeton Theological Seminary and afterward began to question his faith. By 1957 his growing skepticism led him to forfeit/deny/abandon faith in Christ and he became an avowed and lifelong “agnostic” until his death in 2001. Templeton and Graham remained lifelong friends. In 1982 he wrote, “There is no feigning in [Graham]: he believes what he believes with an invincible innocence. He is the only mass evangelist I would trust."But by the end of his life, his admiration for Graham had waned. In 1995, Templeton published A Farewell to God: My Reasons for Rejecting the Christian Faith which set forth his arguments for agnosticism, while also depicting Graham as a fraud who didn't believe in his own crusades. In the latter part of the book, Templeton includes several quotes that have been described as "devastating" to Graham, setting up the case that the latter was simply caught up in good way to make a living. (Wikipedia profile and photo of Templeton HERE)
​

Now, was Templeton saved, OSAS? Will I see him in heaven? His life until the early 1950s gives every evidence that he was once a believer. He gave stirring testimony to his conversion, preached to hundreds of thousands, brought many to Christ, created YWAM (which to this day is one of the leading evangelistic ministries to youth in the world), wrote books and articles extolling Christ, had his own religious television show on CBS, was endorsed as the leading Canadian voice for Christ by the United Churches of Canada, etc., etc. but later in his life, from 1957 until his death, was the leading agnostic voice in his country.

To say that Templeton really never was a Christian is question how any of us can "know" we are Christian? All the evidential “fruit” was there in Templeton’s life and ministry from his conversion through the mid-1950s. He believed he was a Christian? If he really wasn’t, how can I possibly know for sure that I really am a Christian? Where goes my "security"? How can you know for sure you are really a Christian? How can you know your pastor or your favorite celebrity televangelist is really saved? How can I know for sure you are really a Christian?

It gets complicated, doesn't it?

For me it is simple. Charles Templeton willfully forfeited his salvation, choosing to ignore the dictates of his spirit to embrace the questions in his mind. He did not “lose” his salvation, or “sin away” his salvation but, because God never took away his freewill, Templeton simply and willfully abandoned his faith in Christ and became reprobate concerning the faith. He rejected Christ and His gift after having enjoyed it for more than 20 years.

Hard to imagine a Christian turning their back on Christ, but instances are there in scripture (Judas, Demas, Alexander, Hymeneaus, Simon Magus, Diotrophes, Philetus) and in contemporary life.

In short, you don’t have to go to heaven if you don’t want to. God did not drag Charles Templeton kicking and screaming through the pearly gates, OSAS style.

~Jim

If your absence doesn’t make a difference, your presence won’t either.​

 

[GrapeGirl]

I don't know that God would do that, but I do think that He would relentlessly pursue and swoon you to come back. I don't think you can ever go from believing to "not believing"....I do however think that you can change what you put your belief into. As for salvation and heaven, I don't know.

 

[BenAdam]

Jim,

Can you for my benefit, describe your views on the sovreignty of God?

 

[dmhforJesus]

I don't know that God would do that, but I do think that He would relentlessly pursue and swoon you to come back. I don't think you can ever go from believing to "not believing"....I do however think that you can change what you put your belief into. As for salvation and heaven, I don't know.

not arguing your point or any other point yet on this thread but if you think that you can go from

un-belief to belief then why don't you think that you can go from belief to un-belief

just curious?

 

[dmhforJesus]

I have heard people say that you cannot "sin away" your salvation. But what you can do - by using your free will is "choose" to not follow Christ any longer.

My very simple opinion on this is that if you "choose" to resume your previous sinful life which is in NO WAY honoring God then did you not just "choose" to not follow Christ any longer? Therefore ultimately having "sinned" away your salvation?

I just don't buy that you can be saved and continue in sin - Jesus NEVER said to any of the people he healed or transformed "go and sin some more" but quite the contrary Jesus said "go and sin NO MORE" what makes everybody think that it is okay to remain in sin? I just don't understand?