Evolution is the Great Apostasy

notto

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rudenski said:
If the world is only a few thousand years old and not milions of years old then evolution and the foundation of modern science is a lie.
The information presented does not provide any evidence that modern science is incorrect about the age of the earth. It is a misrepresentation of Lyell and does nothing to support the hypothesis that the earth is young except to say that science 200 years ago may have had some things wrong, therefore the earth is young because the bible says so.

You must support your position, not simply shoot holes and misrepresent the current theory and then claim that your position is the correct alternative. That is how sciece works. Whoever wrote the articles you posted seems to have an incorrect idea of how science works and also poorly understands Lyell and modern geology and sciences.
 
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notto

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It is intereseting that the article in the opening posts uses quotes from Robert B. Gagosian to try to somehow support the position that the earth is young considering that the paper the quotes come from put the END of the last ice age at 12,700 and the quotes only have any meaning and context if one accepts this and accepts that there was a severe climate change prior to 12,700 years ago that caused the ice age to start in the first place.

The full article from Gagosian can be found here. Not much to support a young earth (and as we would expect, has nothing to do with evolution).

http://www.whoi.edu/administration/president/news_030127.htm
 
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michabo

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rudenski said:
If the world is only a few thousand years old and not milions of years old then evolution and the foundation of modern science is a lie.
A misinterpretation of available evidence, perhaps. Fortunately we don't have to worry about it.
 
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Aggie

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If the world is only a few thousand years old and not milions of years old then evolution and the foundation of modern science is a lie.

Hey, it's one of those "if-then" statements from eighth grade geometry!

I've got another one for you: If the moon is actually a black hole, all of the astronauts who landed there got sucked into it and died.

The logic is correct, you know.
 
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“All the future events will be sealed in a book for them,” according to Isaiah 29. I think this is speaking of what we commonly look at as "The Apocrypha," and so THERE ARE MANY who DO NOT (YET) SEE how it's removal is what enabled the evoltionists to put up their whole scheme of a vast geological time frame. Hence, they do recognize THE APOSTACY of this age - yet they think it proper to speak negatively about all the information, such as that in the Wisdom of Solomon, and some even turn up their noses as in disgust when the truth (historic truth) is actually shown to them.

In brief, the Bible says “they will say, “we can’t read it because it is sealed!” (Isa 29:11) And when the same material is all laid out in front of those unlearned in the ways of scripture, they will say “Sorry, we don’t know how to read!”

Allow me to explain more. What it all means is that there comes a time when men begin to realize that “all the future events” were TRULY sealed up in a book for them – and they won’t even know what any of it actually means!

At that same time, it will be then that the Lord will say, ah yes! . . .
13 “These people say they are mine. They honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far away.” In the Living Bible it says, “And their worship of me amounts to nothing more than human laws learned by rote. 14 Because of this, I will do wonders among these hypocrites. I will show that human wisdom is foolish and even the most brilliant people lack understanding.’ (Isa 29:13-14) Nevertheless . . . 19 ”The humble will be filled with fresh joy from the LORD. Those who are poor will rejoice in the Holy One of Israel. 20 Those who intimidate and harass will be gone, and all those who plot evil will be killed. 21 Those who make the innocent guilty by their false testimony will disappear. And those who use trickery to pervert justice and tell lies to tear down the innocent will be no more.”
22 That is why the LORD, who redeemed Abraham, says to the people of Israel, “My people will no longer pale with fear or be ashamed. 23 For when they see their many children (i.e.Christians,) and material blessings, they will recognize the holiness of the Holy One of Israel. They will stand in awe of the God of Israel. 24 Those in error will then believe the truth, and those who constantly complain will accept instruction. (Isaiah 29:19-24)
Elijah
 
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MartinM

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Bruce D McKay said:
I think this is speaking of what we commonly look at as "The Apocrypha," and so THERE ARE MANY who DO NOT (YET) SEE how it's removal is what enabled the evoltionists to put up their whole scheme of a vast geological time frame
Actually, it was evidence which led to a vast geological time frame. And it was discovered before Darwin.
 
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toff

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Bruce D McKay said:
“All the future events will be sealed in a book for them,” according to Isaiah 29. I think this is speaking of what we commonly look at as "The Apocrypha," and so THERE ARE MANY who DO NOT (YET) SEE how it's removal is what enabled the evoltionists to put up their whole scheme of a vast geological time frame. Hence, they do recognize THE APOSTACY of this age - yet they think it proper to speak negatively about all the information, such as that in the Wisdom of Solomon, and some even turn up their noses as in disgust when the truth (historic truth) is actually shown to them.

In brief, the Bible says “they will say, “we can’t read it because it is sealed!” (Isa 29:11) And when the same material is all laid out in front of those unlearned in the ways of scripture, they will say “Sorry, we don’t know how to read!”

Allow me to explain more. What it all means is that there comes a time when men begin to realize that “all the future events” were TRULY sealed up in a book for them – and they won’t even know what any of it actually means!

At that same time, it will be then that the Lord will say, ah yes! . . .
13 “These people say they are mine. They honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far away.” In the Living Bible it says, “And their worship of me amounts to nothing more than human laws learned by rote. 14 Because of this, I will do wonders among these hypocrites. I will show that human wisdom is foolish and even the most brilliant people lack understanding.’ (Isa 29:13-14) Nevertheless . . . 19 ”The humble will be filled with fresh joy from the LORD. Those who are poor will rejoice in the Holy One of Israel. 20 Those who intimidate and harass will be gone, and all those who plot evil will be killed. 21 Those who make the innocent guilty by their false testimony will disappear. And those who use trickery to pervert justice and tell lies to tear down the innocent will be no more.”
22 That is why the LORD, who redeemed Abraham, says to the people of Israel, “My people will no longer pale with fear or be ashamed. 23 For when they see their many children (i.e.Christians,) and material blessings, they will recognize the holiness of the Holy One of Israel. They will stand in awe of the God of Israel. 24 Those in error will then believe the truth, and those who constantly complain will accept instruction. (Isaiah 29:19-24)
Elijah
Umm.m..that's nice. You DO realise that this is a science forum, not a religious rant forum, don't you?
 
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notto

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Bruce D McKay said:
“All the future events will be sealed in a book for them,” according to Isaiah 29. I think this is speaking of what we commonly look at as "The Apocrypha," and so THERE ARE MANY who DO NOT (YET) SEE how it's removal is what enabled the evoltionists to put up their whole scheme of a vast geological time frame. Hence, they do recognize THE APOSTACY of this age - yet they think it proper to speak negatively about all the information, such as that in the Wisdom of Solomon, and some even turn up their noses as in disgust when the truth (historic truth) is actually shown to them.
If this is true, why do you use quotes from scientists to try to prove your point but do not include the information from these same scientists that disagree with your assertions that give the context of the quotes you use?

Why do you speak negatively about science yet try (and the operative word here is TRY) to use science to (poorly) support your beliefs?
 
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Phinehas

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notto said:
If this is true, why do you use quotes from scientists to try to prove your point but do not include the information from these same scientists that disagree with your assertions that give the context of the quotes you use?
And you (or a few others) were complaining about the length of the post(s) before?

Why do you speak negatively about science yet try (and the operative word here is TRY) to use science to (poorly) support your beliefs?
Actually, I think rudenski was trying to make a distinction between good science and not so good science. One of the main thrusts, it seems, is that true genius is stifled in the supposed "unbiased" scientific realm of this world. I think he might expect too much from people apart from Christ. I think quite a majority of people in the scientifc community really just want science to fit their worldviews instead of fitting thier worldviews into the actual science. I'm not saying that Christians never do the same thing (warning: possible inflamitory remark ahead), but in this case they (Christians) just happen to be right ;) . Or, in this case (or any), God is right, so everyone that agrees with Him is right too. (ya like that? :D )
 
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notto

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Phinehas said:
And you (or a few others) were complaining about the length of the post(s) before?


Actually, I think rudenski was trying to make a distinction between good science and not so good science. One of the main thrusts, it seems, is that true genius is stifled in the supposed "unbiased" scientific realm of this world. I think he might expect too much from people apart from Christ. I think quite a majority of people in the scientifc community really just want science to fit their worldviews instead of fitting thier worldviews into the actual science. I'm not saying that Christians never do the same thing (warning: possible inflamitory remark ahead), but in this case they (Christians) just happen to be right ;) . Or, in this case (or any), God is right, so everyone that agrees with Him is right too. (ya like that? :D )
Well, Lyell was a Christian when he published his work, so, as a Christian, was he right or wrong? It would seem that he was NOT trying to fit his evidence into a world view but specifically provided evidence that went against conventional thought, his own beliefs, and the 'biased' science of the time, so by your logic, he could be a true genius that was stifled by the majority of the scientific thought at the time. Right?
 
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In this brief message I AM GOING TO SHOW YOU - AND PROVE TO YOU - THAT THE GENESIS FLOOD IS REAL AND YOU WILL BE ABLE TO SEE HOW IT ACTUALLY DID HAPPEN! Admittedly, if they were right, that is, if Charles Lyell and the other scientists were right when they put together the basis of logic on which rests all modern geology, the what I am going to propose is going to be nothing but a bunch of bunk. That will in turn mean, everything will be just fine in terms of the geological sciences. That is, if what HF Osborn wrote was right then the entirer world is going to all be "Scott Free" of any further troubles. So let's take a look at what Osborn wrote. He said that (Quote) "present continuity implies the improbability of past catastrophism and violence of change, of either lifless (geology) or in the living world." And, affter all, that's exactly where Charles Lyell, the founder of modern geology got the basis of his "doctrine of uniformity."
But if all that stuff about a vast geological time frame was only a very convincing, ongoing parade of dialectics, then it must be true that the various so-called proofs were being fitted in by a small group of couriers and intenational agens, so as to deliberately flim-flam the whole world, and thereby completely do away of "The Age of Kings!" And if that was what was really going on immediatley following the rather frightening events of the French Revolution, THEN YOU CAN BE ABSOLUTELY SURE THAT NEARLY EVERYBODY IN THE WHOLE WORLD IS GOING TO SOON BE VERY RAPIDLY OVERTAKEN BY A VERY RUDE AWAKENING - THE REAL KING IS COMING!
In other words, let me put it this way. How can anyone look at all THE FISSURES OF THE ROCKS, all over England, Wales, and western Europe, find them all to be packed with bones(!) and yet maintain that "nothing catasclimic ever happened?" (That should get you thinking.) Since the VALLEYS around Paris and rual France, are filled with the REMAINS OF MAMMATH, WIOLLY RHINOCEROS, AND OTHER ANIMALS, how can it be argued(?) or how can it be actually ture, that the land slowly lowered, or the seas slowly raised over eons of time? I mean, if it took vast centuries for the hills and mountains to be fromed by sedimentary wear - then how(!) on the tops of HILLS - SOME AS HIGH AS 1430 FEET(!) - can we find them yet to this very day, capped by a "breccia" (i.e., a rock made of solidified rubble) containing the remains of MAMMOTH, REINDEER, HORSE, and other animals. Clearly, if there was nothing cataslicmic that ever happened, or all those species were killed many thousands of years ago, (quoting here from Immual Velikovsky's book, Earth In Upheaval . . .) then "on the Mediterranean coast of France" we would certainly not expect to be able to find, the numerous clefs in the rocks that are there "crammed to overflowing with animal bones." If the processes of nature in the area of The Rock of Gibraltar, were so slow as to be hundreds of thosands of years in the making - then how can it be that the whole area today is itself intersected by numerous crevices, filled with bones, broken and spintered bones! In brief, "if the evolutionists are right(!) then we must expect to find over the surface and should find scattered on the ground, the remains of panther, lynx, caffir(bob)-cat, hyaena, wolf, bear, rinocerous, horse, wild boar, red deer, fallow deer, ibex, ox, hare, and rabbit. Instead of that however, what is true is that all of these have benn simply being found sucked deep within so many ossiferous fissues - all over the continent of Europe. It does sound as if almost every living thing was rapidly dragged in by some vast, rapidly receeding flood waters, doesn't it! And, why, that's just the opposite of the "flooding of the entire world!" Moreover, it is reported all those, "the bones, are not likely broken into thousands of fragments - none are worn or rolled, nor any of them gnawed . . . " and yet everyone in the whole field of geology holds to the idea that nothing cataclismic every happened!
Let me ask you, is all this not just like the highly unusual finds of warm-climate animals and plants, frozen over, in polar regions, along with the coarls and palm trees in the Artic Circle! How unthinking we have been, not to fix all acquaintance of these things with the simple existence of changes over many thousands of years of time, and they were all merely caused somehow by the blowing of the wind and the lively flowing of water! Personally, I am reminded that Cuvier belived in the events of violent displacement, based on the deposits found in his own country of France. (Quote) "MUCH OF FRANCE WAS ONCE SEA; then it was land, populated by land animals; THEN IT WAS LAND AGAIN, inhabited by mammals, THEN IT WAS ONCE MORE SEA, and then LAND AGAIN. Each stratum contains the evidences of the age in the bones and shells of the animals that lived and propagated there at the time and were entombed in recurrent upheavals. AND AS IT WAS ON THE SITE OF PARIS, SO IT WAS IN OTHER PARTS OF FRANCE, AND IN OTHER COUNTRIES OF EUROPE." But of course if YOU are on the side of the Fathers who found the geological sciences, there was absolutely nothing cataclsimic about any of these events, whatsoever!
According to Cuvier, however, the breaking to pieces of the land, (Quote) "THE RISING UP AND OVERTURNING OF THE OLDER STRATA [OF THE EARTH], leave no doubt upon the mind that they have been reduced to the state in which we now see them, the action of SUDDEN AND VIOLENT CAUSES..." And he (Cuvier) also pointed out, the major question was - where did all the mud come from. He found "NO EVIDENCE that the sea can NOW INCRUST THE SHELLS with a past as compact as that of the marbles, the sandstones, or even the coarse limestones... In short, all [now active] causes united, would not change in any appreciable degree, the level of the sea, nor raise it a single stratum above its surface." Yet there was something, in each of those cases, that (Quote) "overturned our strata, enveloped in ice large animals, with their flesh and skin, laid dry the marine (life)... and lastly, destroyed numerous species, and even entire genera!" Hence, if Lyell and Osborn were only the front runners of long running nation to nation flim-flam, then that surely means Cuvier was right all along AND WITH THE ISSUE OF THE RAPIDLY MELTING OF THE POLAR ICE CAPS AS IS NOW GOING ON AT BOTH ENDS OF THE PLANET, THAT MEANS EVERYONE IS GOING TO SOON BE CUT IN ON A TRULY BIG, SUPER-SIZED SURPRISE!
So here goes what I promised you at the top. Personally, I am beginning to think that just about everyone's thinking has been far too small, in terms of what has happened in the past, and in terms of what is going to evidently happen in the near future. I personally think the ancient earth had a covering or continental crust, that could be loosely compared to that of a medium gratefruit. In reality, the crust is more or less about as thin as a balloon! Anyway, just close your eyes for a moment and think of the ancient super continent as being equal in area, to the outer rine of a medium size gratefruit. Now imagine the whole mantle inside of that gratefruit sized earth, starting to release tons and tons of new matter - in a process of rapidly releasing highly compressed matter - issued in the form of most of the smaller atoms. Namely, this would mean the very rapid release of billions upon billions of newly emerging oxygen, silicon, hydrogen, and carbon atoms. In Biblical terms, the fountains of the deep were all broken up - meaning all of this flooded onto the surface, WITH THOSE "NEW WATERS" RAPIDLY TAKING FORM, AND ALL OF THAT SUFFICENT TO COMPLETELY COVERE OVER THE SURFACE OF THE ENTIRE PLANET! THEN THE MANTLE ITSELF BEGAN TO EXPAND! MOVING OUTWARD, IT BEGAN TO BREAK APART THE OLD, OUTER CRUST... THE CONTINENTS ALL MOVED TO WHERE WE YET FIND THEM TODAY, ALL WITHINT THIS SAME PROCESS! And then, just as soon as all the waters began to receed from the faces of the continents, they cut out the grand canyon, rapidly laid out the vast reaches of plant deposits, rafted in to form the so-called Pennsylvanian coal fields, and the Mississippian coal fields! In general, these same forces moving as a tidal wave of new matter are what even petrified entire forests by a very rapid carbonization or silica exchange. The petrification reaction, possibly involved an exchange of silica with the oxygen that the pants normaly respirate outward. This time, however, the highly charged silicia atoms moved directly into, or through, almost every plant cell. WHAT ALL THIS MEANS, THEREFORE, IS THAT MOST IF NOT ALL THE WATER THAT IS NOW IN THE ATLANTIC AND THE PACIFIC OCEAN, WAS AT ONE TIME, THE WATERS OF THE GENESIS FLOOD. In other words this does SHOW HOW IT HAPPENED - AND IT SHOULD PROVE TO YOU - THAT THE GENESIS FLOOD IS REAL AND IT ALL DID ACTUALLY HAPPEN!
In brief, all the supposed gelogical ages were not very slowly emerging events - they were exceedingly rapid in occurance, and obviously cataclismic and very, very violent. Hence, I must also conclude that the whole FACTORY OF EVOLUTIONARY GEOLOGISTIC THOUGHT is only an ongoing system of wide eyed falsifications and mythology, all of which explains the flood, and the ongoing apostacy, that evolution began.
So - please, tell all your friends about what you have just read. Print it out and show it to them - and you better keep posted to this forum! In my opinion, it won't be long before there's going to be "a whole lot of shaking going on." That is, when the polar ice caps melt down to a critical mass, it seems to me, that's when the orbital spin is going to rapidly fail! It is, at that point, that the so-called geological theories of Charles Lyell and the rest of his associates, both modern and old, will be fully disproven, finally, once and for all!

5 Behold, saith the Lord, I will bring plagues upon the world; the sword, famine, death, and destruction. 6 For wickedness hath exceedingly polluted the whole earth, and their hurtful works are fulfilled. 7 Therefore saith the Lord, 8 I will hold my tongue no more as touching their wickedness, which they profanely commit, neither will I suffer them in those things, in which they wickedly exercise themselves: behold, the innocent and righteous blood crieth unto me, and the souls of the just complain continually. 9 And therefore, saith the Lord, I will surely avenge them, and receive unto me all the innocent blood from among them. 10 Behold, my people is led as a flock to the slaughter: I will not suffer them now to dwell in the land of Egypt: 11 But I will bring them with a mighty hand and a stretched out arm, and smite Egypt with plagues, as before, and will destroy all the land thereof. 12 Egypt shall mourn, and the foundation of it shall be smitten with the plague and punishment that God shall bring upon it." (2 Esdras 15:5-12)

Elijah

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notto

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Bruce D McKay said:
I personally think the ancient earth had a covering or continental crust, that could be loosely compared to that of a medium gratefruit. In reality, the crust is more or less about as thin as a balloon! Anyway, just close your eyes for a moment and think of the ancient super continent as being equal in area, to the outer rine of a medium size gratefruit. Now imagine the whole mantle inside of that gratefruit sized earth, starting to release tons and tons of new matter - in a process of rapidly releasing highly compressed matter - issued in the form of most of the smaller atoms. Namely, this would mean the very rapid release of billions upon billions of newly emerging oxygen, silicon, hydrogen, and carbon atoms. In Biblical terms, the fountains of the deep were all broken up - meaning all of this flooded onto the surface, WITH THOSE "NEW WATERS" RAPIDLY TAKING FORM, AND ALL OF THAT SUFFICENT TO COMPLETELY COVERE OVER THE SURFACE OF THE ENTIRE PLANET! THEN THE MANTLE ITSELF BEGAN TO EXPAND! MOVING OUTWARD, IT BEGAN TO BREAK APART THE OLD, OUTER CRUST... THE CONTINENTS ALL MOVED TO WHERE WE YET FIND THEM TODAY, ALL WITHINT THIS SAME PROCESS! And then, just as soon as all the waters began to receed from the faces of the continents, they cut out the grand canyon, rapidly laid out the vast reaches of plant deposits, rafted in to form the so-called Pennsylvanian coal fields, and the Mississippian coal fields! In general, these same forces moving as a tidal wave of new matter are what even petrified entire forests by a very rapid carbonization or silica exchange. The petrification reaction, possibly involved an exchange of silica with the oxygen that the pants normaly respirate outward.

.
A few problems with your idea:
1) We find dinosaur footprints that show them moving about trees that are preserved in coal formations. This falsifies your idea on the creation of coal. There are multiple formations in the coal itself that show that the material grew and died right where we find it. There are numerous other trace fossils of dinosaur egg nest, presevered intact, insect mounds, preserved intact, etc. This falsifies your ideas as the way the sedimentary material we find in rocks was created.

2) There are several petrified forests in the geological column that show trees upright or all blown down in the various directions away from a volcanic eruption in a circular pattern. These trees are on top of existing sediment and buried under newer sediment. These trees were not transported. This falsifies your idea of petrification of forests.

3) The idea of a global flood is falsified by many independent lines of evidence. Until you can address the evidence that falsifies your ideas, not amount of supportive evidence means anything. That is how science works.

Please explain the following using the processes you discussed
1) dinosaur tracks and tree root systems preserved in coal deposits.
2) dinosaur egg nests preserved intact in the middle of sedimentary layers
3) various formations in the sedimentary ROCK of the grand canyon that cannot be explained as a formation in mud showing that the ground was ROCK before it was carved and that it was carved slowly by a small river (oxbows, caves, lava dams, etc).

You need to address the specifics of the geology of the earth. You have provided nothing but broad handwaving that even a brief analysis of, shows huge errors and a lack of any real specifics that deal with actual geological formations.
 
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There is also an accompanying shift in molecular forces, which can be gathered from the fact that water, which normally “quenches every thing,” causes fire to have an even greater effect. (Wis 16:17) It is evident that the Oxygen and Hydrogen atoms become disassociated to some degree. “It blazed up in the midst of the water, with more than fiery power,” (Wis 16:19) and “snow and ice endured fire without melting.” (Wis 16:22) What crops the fire could not destroy “melted away when it was simply warmed by a fleeting sunbeam.”(Wis 16:27) What there is also to consider is that this incredible change in molecular forces, also carries all the way through the entire electromagnetic spectrum! For, as the scriptures say, they were “deprived of light and imprisoned in darkness.”(

LOL! Literaly... rolling on the floor!
*cought*

My book here says that water kill fire by cooling it down.
My book also tell me that this bible stuff are metaphor and that it could also have been "The shield with cut thee hands and attract swords, and the wall shall help spies".

My book also tell me that this is all pathetic.
 
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