You're walking down a dark alley . . .

Robbie_James_Francis · Jan 5, 2007

Hell yeah!!

Having said that, I'd be equally happier knowing they had just come from prayers and services at the Mosque, Jain Temple, Hindu Temple, Synagogue, Mormon Temple, Gudwara etc. (Provided, of course, they were, like the Bible class, optional extra attendance. That people go to their usual obligatory services is no indication of moral goodness but possibly of tradition, habit or fear of hell).

Or, for that matter, if they'd come from a poetry evening, meditation class, yoga class, intellectual lecture, town council meeting, "secular humanists-r-us club". You get the picture...

peace

LouTheWicked · Jan 5, 2007

Rainbroblight said:
Trick question. I would never walk through a rough part of Chicago.

^ What he said.

The Nihilist · Jan 5, 2007

I would probably be most comfortable if they I knew they had just come from a meeting of the American Pacifist Society, or something to that effect.

ScMay · Jan 5, 2007

Robbie_James_Francis said:
Hell yeah!!

Having said that, I'd be equally happier knowing they had just come from prayers and services at the Mosque, Jain Temple, Hindu Temple, Synagogue, Mormon Temple, Gudwara etc. (Provided, of course, they were, like the Bible class, optional extra attendance. That people go to their usual obligatory services is no indication of moral goodness but possibly of tradition, habit or fear of hell).

Or, for that matter, if they'd come from a poetry evening, meditation class, yoga class, intellectual lecture, town council meeting, "secular humanists-r-us club". You get the picture...

peace

I feel exactly the same, the comfort does not come from the knowledge it was a bible class, the comfort comes from knowing they were attending a voluntary group meeting for any purpose that does not encourage random violence. Most of the fear of such groups is 'why are they here?', to which the feared answer is 'looking for trouble'.

Note that I am assuming that these people do NOT know I'm an atheist, if they did then my discomfort would skyrocket again since it gives them a 'reason' to hate me and thus lead to violence (we are in a rough part of a notorious city).

Norseman · Jan 5, 2007

No. Christians are very slightly overrepresented in prisons, but not enough that I would feel less comfortable knowing that they had been to Bible class earlier. What would make me comfortable would be if they had just left a class on the philosophy of ethics.

Robbie_James_Francis · Jan 6, 2007

Norseman said:
What would make me comfortable would be if they had just left a class on the philosophy of ethics.

I'm not so sure personally. The philosophy of ethics could perhaps confuse them sufficiently that they decide, for sanity's sake, that the concept of ethics is irrelevant.

peace

Eudaimonist · Jan 6, 2007

Robbie_James_Francis said:
I'm not so sure personally. The philosophy of ethics could perhaps confuse them sufficiently that they decide, for sanity's sake, that the concept of ethics is irrelevant.

Yes, but in all the confusion, you have a chance to make a quick getaway.

eudaimonia,

Mark

Robbie_James_Francis · Jan 6, 2007

Eudaimonist said:
Yes, but in all the confusion, you have a chance to make a quick getaway.

True. I know that I would be useless in a complete crisis, as I would have to take several minutes to weigh up the different ethical arguments about which path to take. I mean, I can't even go shopping without standing there thinking, "Couldn't I spend this money better?" etc. By the time I finish studying philosophy at uni in a few years, I may have finally been pushed over the edge.

justanobserver · Jan 6, 2007

I voted "no". as with other posters here, how would I know these 10 men came from a bible study, how would I know they were christians just because they were truly at a bible study, why are they walking down dark alleys in the bad side of town, why should i assume automatically that just because they alegged to be christians that they are ok and not a threat?

I follow the revised advise of a former US president:

Speak softly and carry a 12 gauge pump..."

Opcode42 · Jan 6, 2007

Too many "Good Christians" have become upset, oft times quite angry, and once actually attacked me for me to ever trust people just because they recently came from a Bible Class.

The Bible has entirely too much violence in it for it to be any form of constraint for a large group of young men in a not so good part of town.

I'd treat them no different than any other large group in that setting, give them a wide berth without looking like I was trying to avoid them.

dlamberth · Jan 6, 2007

Opcode42 said:
Too many "Good Christians" have become upset, oft times quite angry, and once actually attacked me for me to ever trust people just because they recently came from a Bible Class.

Me too.!!

Like the bumber sticker says "Lord, save me from your believers"

.

bammertheblue · Jan 6, 2007

I go on instinct in situations like that. (I also stay out of them to the best of my ability, but it's a hypothetical after all.) I wouldn't trust them more or less than any given group of 10 men in an alley, which is to say, not very far at all.

sister_maynard · Jan 6, 2007

I might feel a tiny bit safer, but it wouldn't make a significant difference. People are people, and Christians have problems too.

heatherq17 · Jan 6, 2007

I would not feel any safer really...

lawtonfogle · Jan 6, 2007

What is offered is if defining a single variable, where the guys came from, makes the chance of them causing harm any less. I believe that it does on average, though I do not know a logical or mathmatical proof at this time. I will offer this, knowing that they came from some place where if they listened to what they were told at that place made them more likely to cuase me harm would cuase me to feel less safe than if I knew nothing, and so I am guessing the prime (opposite) of this is also true, at least in my opinion. There is the question of if they follow what they were taught, and if they were taught what one should be, not could be, taught in a Bible study class (the entire love your neighbor deal).

But then again, what they were doing at the meeting was not defined. Maybe they were robbing those at the Bible study, which in that case, I would feel less safe.

Tenka · Jan 7, 2007

Karatecowboy said:
If you were walking down a dark street at night in the rough part of Chicago and you saw ten young men walking towards you, would you feel more comfortable if you knew that they had just come from a Bible class?

As an atheist, no I wouldn't. Christians often take offense at non-believers sometimes violently, a mob of them wouldn't be something I'd look forward to.

SallyNow · Jan 7, 2007

Tenka said:
As an atheist, no I wouldn't. Christians often take offense at non-believers sometimes violently, a mob of them wouldn't be something I'd look forward to.

I don't mean to be rude but aren't you, in a way, making the same broad generalizations about Christians that some Christians make about non-believers?

Maybe that's we need to stop doing... making generalizations...

I'd still feel safer if they were tap dancers. Tap dance is exhausting, and they'd be too tired to fight.

Norseman · Jan 7, 2007

SallyNow said:
I don't mean to be rude but aren't you, in a way, making the same broad generalizations about Christians that some Christians make about non-believers?

Maybe that's we need to stop doing... making generalizations...

I'd still feel safer if they were tap dancers. Tap dance is exhausting, and they'd be too tired to fight.

It is a generalization, and probably overly broad, particularly in this situation (because they wouldn't be able to read his mind and discover that he's an atheist) but I would say it's not entirely unfounded. I can cite at least one person in the United States who was killed by a Christian for being an atheist: Larry Hooper. But, of course, there are 300 million Americans, so this one rare instance doesn't say too much about the Christian-atheist relationship in general. I think this case was a symptom of a strong prejudice towards atheists. For example, if you take a look at this study you'll note that most Americans "rate atheists below Muslims, recent immigrants, gays and lesbians and other minority groups in sharing their vision of American society.

The researchers also found acceptance or rejection of atheists is related not only to personal religiosity, but also to ones exposure to diversity, education and political orientationwith more educated, East and West Coast Americans more accepting of atheists than their Midwestern counterparts.

I don't think there's any denying that a lot of Christian Americans don't like atheists, especially in the red states and Bible belt. The atheist in the closet phenomenon is a direct result of the prejudice that atheists experience at the hands of some Christians. I say some for an important reason. If you go back up to that quote again, you'll note that I bolded "personal religiosity". This is why the Bible class is a little bit unnerving. If a Christian is very religious, especially if that Christian could easily hurt you, it's not in your best interests to tell them you're an atheist. You probably wouldn't get attacked or anything, but there's no sense in tempting Murphy's Law. As I said above though, they can't read your mind, so there's no reason to be any less comfortable around them.

SallyNow · Jan 7, 2007

I had a huge long post typed up, but the "database error" page ate it up. So let me just say this:

Living in Canada, we have a different approach to a) walking down dark alleys and b) Christianity in general. It tends to be a more moderate or liberal Christianity, and we mostly have a lot of Christian churches that encourage love and charity over politicla activism. For instance, I can name quite a few moderate Lutheran churches, Catholic churches, and the like... and I know of many peaceful Quaker and Mennonite churches in the area... but very few that host passive-political talks. Now, I know the majority of churches in the USA are peaceful, but there are also a share of them that are not.

So basically, my view of the "walking down a dark alley and meeting up with ten Bible study boys" does not conjure up guys who will dislike agnostics or athiests. Obviously, this is not what many Americans have experienced or believe.

Canada and the USA really do have cultural differences... I never would have guessed that anyone would rate someone "below" another because of belief or lackthereof without knowing something about them personally!

TheDreadedAtheist · Jan 7, 2007

SallyNow said:
I don't mean to be rude but aren't you, in a way, making the same broad generalizations about Christians that some Christians make about non-believers?

Maybe that's we need to stop doing... making generalizations...

I'd still feel safer if they were tap dancers. Tap dance is exhausting, and they'd be too tired to fight.

http://www.parallelpac.org/murder.htm

Hmmm

You're walking down a dark alley . . .

See OP

Yes, I would

No, I would not.

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Hello

My solace my terror, my terror my solace.

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