Your view on predestination

[Revelation210Faith]

Hi. I only learned about predestination recently(about a week ago), and I'm confused. I would just like to know how other baptists view predestination? Thanks

 

[twin1954]

Hi. I only learned about predestination recently(about a week ago), and I'm confused. I would just like to know how other baptists view predestination? Thanks

We view it Scripturally. The word is used in the Scriptures only in connection with people never about things. But theologically it is often used in a general sense to cover the foreordination of God of everything that happens.

You will find many here who hold to the doctrine, including myself, and some who argue vehemently against it. I would be more than happy to answer any questions you might have about the doctrine but recommend doing so by PM rather than publically. My reason is that you will get even more confused by all the noise and nonsense that passes as debate here.
feel free to PM me if you desire to learn about the doctrine. I promise to honestly answer all your questions as best as I can.

 

[Bluelion]

We view it Scripturally. The word is used in the Scriptures only in connection with people never about things. But theologically it is often used in a general sense to cover the foreordination of God of everything that happens.

You will find many here who hold to the doctrine, including myself, and some who argue vehemently against it. I would be more than happy to answer any questions you might have about the doctrine but recommend doing so by PM rather than publically. My reason is that you will get even more confused by all the noise and nonsense that passes as debate here.
feel free to PM me if you desire to learn about the doctrine. I promise to honestly answer all your questions as best as I can.

From his Calvinist point of view.

which group of baptist are you asking because you will get a different answer from each one? I'm conservative Baptist, I believe in election but not elitism.

Jesus was predestine to pay for the sins of the world, election.

elitism God chose only one group for salvation and no one else out side that group can ever have salvation, elitism.

we believe God offers the gift of salvation to all, and they must choose or reject this. Calvinist don't believe in this they believe in elitism.

 

[Revelation210Faith]

I'm a southern baptist so I'm pretty conservative

 

[morse86]

Anything by that blaspheming satanist John Calvin must be examined carefully.

Jesus died for ALL. Of course God knows who would get saved and who would not. Jesus exchanged places with us on the cross...he shed his blood...it is a covering for us....if we believe, we're saved. Salvation is easy and it's a choice we make.

There are so many verses that say it's by faith.


Go to a REAL church. Take a look at some of the sermons by a REAL preacher like Pastor Anderson (https://www.youtube.com/user/sanderson1611/videos)

 

[Bluelion]

Anything by that blaspheming satanist John Calvin must be examined carefully.

Jesus died for ALL. Of course God knows who would get saved and who would not. Jesus exchanged places with us on the cross...he shed his blood...it is a covering for us....if we believe, we're saved. Salvation is easy and it's a choice we make.

There are so many verses that say it's by faith.

Hey Hey Hey. John Calvin was no satanist. I have been force in to the against Calvinism, but there are only one or two points in the 5 points of I disagree with.

The main problem I have is the free will. I believe everyone has the right to choose in fact i am not even sure what Calvinist are preaching here goes along with John. Some of there issues are dead on, however i take issue with the no one has free will to choose, that God forces his will on people it is just not biblical.

I would have to go back and read other points but I am no longer in that class so a bit rusty, nor do i really care who is what reform or this or that I follow God, read my Bible i would love it if people wanted to discuss the Bible and what it says, but most people want to put you in a group you are this or that, who cares where do we fit with God.


To answer your question to the OP, there is election, i just pulled out a book and read a bit. David was elect by God, Abraham was elect to be the father of the chosen people and this is important I said chosen, meaning those saved not just Jews. You are also a son of Abraham if you are saved. Israel is the church not just Jews or land, it is spiritual. any way that is what I am studying now, so i know more about that.

Peace and Love

blu

 

[98cwitr]

My view is this: Since God is both the Creator and possessor of all foreknowledge of His Creation, this makes Him Sovereign over creation. Therefore, people, before they are created are foreknown by their Creator for heaven or hell, and therefore are metaphorically destined for either common use or noble purpose. See Romans 9. Lastly, I will attest that free will is nothing more than a perception. God alters a man's heart for Him or against Him...and there is plenty of Scripture to back that up. God directs man...not the other way around (proverbs 16:9, 20:24).

 

[twin1954]

Hi. I only learned about predestination recently(about a week ago), and I'm confused. I would just like to know how other baptists view predestination? Thanks

What did you learn about predestination?

 

[twin1954]

From his Calvinist point of view.

which group of baptist are you asking because you will get a different answer from each one? I'm conservative Baptist, I believe in election but not elitism.

Jesus was predestine to pay for the sins of the world, election.

elitism God chose only one group for salvation and no one else out side that group can ever have salvation, elitism.

we believe God offers the gift of salvation to all, and they must choose or reject this. Calvinist don't believe in this they believe in elitism.

There you go building straw men again. You know that nothing you said about what we believe is true so why say it?

 

[twin1954]

I'm a southern baptist so I'm pretty conservative

Many Southern Baptists are Calvinistic. The founders of the Southern Baptists were Calvinistic. Louisville Seminary is Calvinistic. Meaning that they all held to or hold to predestination.

Did you hear about predestination from your pastor?

 

[ALoveDivine]

Here's how I've come to view it, I have kind of a middle-ground position.

1. Christ died, in a collective sense, for the whole world and all people are invited and commanded to enter into the New Covenant by repentance and faith.

2. Christ also died specifically, in a particular sense, for all who would ever believe in him. For these people he actually bore their deserved judgement and removed their sins in his blood.

3. All people are able to enter into the New Covenant, meaning they are able to repent and believe, but no people are willing to. People are not willing because they hate God and love sin, so they choose, without exception, to reject his offer.

4. In God's grace and mercy he has chosen some to bring into this New Covenant by overpowering their unwillingness with his sovereign grace, and he makes this happen by regeneration, a supernatural work of the Holy Spirit whereby a sinner is brought from spiritual death to spiritual life, the outward sign of this supernatural work being true repentance and saving faith.

I hold this position because the bible affirms a few things very clearly. It affirms unconditonal election from cover to cover. It also affirms that man is totally depraved and spiritually dead. It also differentiates between the general call of the Gospel and the effectual inward calling of the elect. It further affirms the eternal security, or certain perseverance, of the saints. However, it also does affirm that the atonement was both particular and universal.

Hence, I'm basically a four-point Calvinist. Five-point Calvinism may be more logically comfortable for our fallible human minds, but the bible seems incredibly clear on the simultaneously universal and particular nature of Christ's atonement.

 

[twin1954]

Here's how I've come to view it, I have kind of a middle-ground position.

1. Christ died, in a collective sense, for the whole world and all people are invited and commanded to enter into the New Covenant by repentance and faith.

2. Christ also died specifically, in a particular sense, for all who would ever believe in him. For these people he actually bore their deserved judgement and removed their sins in his blood.

3. All people are able to enter into the New Covenant, meaning they are able to repent and believe, but no people are willing to. People are not willing because they hate God and love sin, so they choose, without exception, to reject his offer.

4. In God's grace and mercy he has chosen some to bring into this New Covenant by overpowering their unwillingness with his sovereign grace, and he makes this happen by regeneration, a supernatural work of the Holy Spirit whereby a sinner is brought from spiritual death to spiritual life, the outward sign of this supernatural work being true repentance and saving faith.

I hold this position because the bible affirms a few things very clearly. It affirms unconditonal election from cover to cover. It also affirms that man is totally depraved and spiritually dead. It also differentiates between the general call of the Gospel and the effectual inward calling of the elect. It further affirms the eternal security, or certain perseverance, of the saints. However, it also does affirm that the atonement was both particular and universal.

Hence, I'm basically a four-point Calvinist. Five-point Calvinism may be more logically comfortable for our fallible human minds, but the bible seems incredibly clear on the simultaneously universal and particular nature of Christ's atonement.

I would be interested in discussing these things with you but don't want to derail this thread. I am particularly interested in your view of the atonement but other things as well. Would you care to have such a discussion? I promise that I will not attack you and am not looking so much for a debate as I am a discussion. Let me know and I will start another thread.

 

[jax5434]

Hi. I only learned about predestination recently(about a week ago), and I'm confused. I would just like to know how other baptists view predestination? Thanks

As you have seen there is no one view on predestination in the Baptist churches.
Many are Calvinistic , believing that God sovreignly chose an elect group of people to be saved before he created them.

Many are Arminians, believing that God foresaw who would accept his offer of grace and predestined those to be saved.

In short all Baptist believe in election and predestination. They differ on basis thru which Gods' grace is applied.

God Bless
Jax

 

[jax5434]

Hi. I only learned about predestination recently(about a week ago), and I'm confused. I would just like to know how other baptists view predestination? Thanks

As you have seen there is no one view on predestination in the Baptist churches. Many are Calvinistic , believing that God sovreignly chose an elect group of people to be saved before he created them.

Many are Arminians, believing that God foresaw who would accept his offer of grace and predestined those to be saved.

In short all Baptist believe in election and predestination. They differ on basis thru which Gods' grace is applied.

God Bless
Jax

 

[twin1954]

As you have seen there is no one view on predestination in the Baptist churches. Many are Calvinistic , believing that God sovreignly chose an elect group of people to be saved before he created them.
Many are Arminians, believing that God foresaw who would accept his offer of grace and predestined those to be saved.

In short all Baptist believe in election and predestination. They differ on basis thru which Gods' grace is applied.

God Bless
Jax

While this (the bolded part) is technically correct it leaves out a very important element. God"s election is electing love not just God picking willy nilly. He is under no obligation to save any but in sovereign mercy and grace chose to save some and put them in His Son Jesus Christ. Election isn't about God choosing but God's mercy and love and grace in Christ. We do not grasp election until we grasp that election is in Christ not apart from Him.

 

[Hentenza]

Hi. I only learned about predestination recently(about a week ago), and I'm confused. I would just like to know how other baptists view predestination? Thanks

My view on predestination is simple. All that are saved are saved simply because God has always known who would choose Him and be saved.

 

[jax5434]

While this (the bolded part) is technically correct it leaves out a very important element. God"s election is electing love not just God picking willy nilly.

If it is based on love, (if I understand your point correctly) then your left with the question of why God loved some and not others? If it was not on the basis of some foreseen merit then your statement becomes distinction without a difference.

God Bless
Jax

 

[twin1954]

If it is based on love, (if I understand your point correctly) then your left with the question of why God loved some and not others? If it was not on the basis of some foreseen merit then your statement becomes distinction without a difference.

God Bless
Jax

The Scriptures answer your question:


Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
(Eph 1:3-6)

It was the good pleasure of His will. The elect are no different than the non-elect. We are sinners deserving the wrath of God, rebels and God haters by nature. We are the worst of all sinners and the refuse of the Earth. 1Cor. 1:25-31 If anything at all we deserve the wrath of God more than all others.


There was nothing in us or done by us to draw the love of God. He chose according to the good pleasure of His will.

If I were a bazillionare and I decided to give my wealth to some people have I not the right to give it to whomever I choose without consideration of anything in them or about them? Do I not also have the right to withhold it from whom I choose? Does God not have that right. Matt. 20:12-15

 

[jax5434]

twin1954

There was nothing in us or done by us to draw the love of God. He chose according to the good pleasure of His will.

Isn't that precisely what I said in my original post?

God Bless
Jax






God Bless
Jax

 

[twin1954]

twin1954



Isn't that precisely what I said in my original post?

God Bless
Jax






God Bless
Jax

Yes but as I said it leaves out an important fact. God's sovereign election is far too often displayed in a negative light in order to disparage it. To simply say that God chose without explaining the context of His choice being in love in Christ is to set it against a background that dulls the brilliant light shown in it. A diamond merchant displays a diamond against a background that shows off its beauty. To lay the diamond out on the counter and say here it is to deny that the diamond has beauty.