Your view on birth control?

kidsminister · Jun 24, 2005

flesh99 said:
But the issue becomes what if one partner feels the urge?

If one partner doesn't ask then the other is not denying, and a day or two of illness is quite different than the length of time required for NFP.

It's not any other human's business, but it is God's.

#1: Not that I need to disclose the details of my sex life to you, but since you asked...if one of us "feels the urge," and gets the other one in the mood, we usually do go for it, as a matter of fact, even if it is during my fertile time!

#2. Uh...4 days is a long time? Unless you are also counting the days of a woman's menstrual cycle, in which many women (me included!) are so nauseated and crampy that sex is definitely NOT on the forefront of our mind.

#3. I find it hard to believe that God is that concerned about when my husband and I are or are not having sex. If you can show me where it states that in the Bible, fine. And the verse about not denying each other doesn't cut it, because we don't deny each other. If one of us wants it that bad, we don't say, "Honey, not today. I might get pregnant." But for the most part, we just try not to during those four days. If we do, and I end up pregnant, then we'd celebrate and be happy after the initial panic .

EdmundBlackadderTheThird · Jun 24, 2005

kidsminister said:
#1: Not that I need to disclose the details of my sex life to you, but since you asked...if one of us "feels the urge," and gets the other one in the mood, we usually do go for it, as a matter of fact, even if it is during my fertile time!

Please accept my deepest apologies, I meant that as a rhetorical question, it is not something I would I would ever ask anyone on more than a rhetorical level.

#2. Uh...4 days is a long time? Unless you are also counting the days of a woman's menstrual cycle, in which many women (me included!) are so nauseated and crampy that sex is definitely NOT on the forefront of our mind.

Being married and all I was counting all of that.

#3. I find it hard to believe that God is that concerned about when my husband and I are or are not having sex. If you can show me where it states that in the Bible, fine. And the verse about not denying each other doesn't cut it, because we don't deny each other. If one of us wants it that bad, we don't say, "Honey, not today. I might get pregnant." But for the most part, we just try not to during those four days. If we do, and I end up pregnant, then we'd celebrate and be happy after the initial panic .

Then you aren't denying each other at all so the points I was making are moot in reference to your situation.

kidsminister · Jun 25, 2005

Then I guess we've just been lucky . Maybe there is something to letting God decide when we have kids, because since I went off the pill three years ago, we haven't strictly followed the NFP method, and yet I have still not gotten pregnant. I know that I "can" can conceive, and so can my husband - I guess God knows it just wouldn't be a good time!

TheologiaCrucis · Jun 30, 2005

No birth control method is acceptable for Christians.

kidsminister · Jun 30, 2005

TheologiaCrucis said:
No birth control method is acceptable for Christians.

Scripture?!?!?

TwinCrier · Jun 30, 2005

Can you provide scripture that children should be avoided by a married couple? The only story in the bible directly related to birth control is about Onan, but back when I still accepted and used birth control, I found it very easy to rationalize and dismiss those verses. It's so much easier to to rationalize than repent.

kidsminister · Jun 30, 2005

TwinCrier said:
Can you provide scripture that children should be avoided by a married couple? The only story in the bible directly related to birth control is about Onan, but back when I still accepted and used birth control, I found it very easy to rationalize and dismiss those verses. It's so much easier to to rationalize than repent.

The story of Onan is in reference to disobedience, not birth control or masturbation, or anything else that people try to make it. God commanded him to give his wife an heir; he refused. He disobeyed God.

Using that story to say that birth control is not acceptable is like using the story of Lot's wife to say that you should never look over your shoulder at anything behind you. That, too, was an example of disobedience.

No, I cannot provide Scripture in support of birth control. But neither can I provide Scripture directly against it. That is why I asked if there was Scripture that supported the position that "no birth control method is acceptable for Christians."

Other than the story of Onan...

P.S. In a previous posting directed at me, you mentioned that one can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. I am giving that piece of advice back to you today...the tone of some of your posts does not exactly make me want to listen nor consider your point of view.

Truth be told, I am undecided as to my actual opinion of birth control. I don't personally use the pill, and while my husband and I somewhat use NFP, we really don't follow it religiously. As I've mentioned, maybe there is some truth to letting God decide, and apparently He has decided that now is NOT the time for me to get pregnant.

Nevertheless, I am looking for a solid Scripture reference in support of either position - not looking to shatter anyone's world, their doctrine, or their faith.

TwinCrier · Jun 30, 2005

The tone of my post? I was sharing my own personal experience. In any case, there just is not any "solid Scripture reference in support of either position." Most people in the bible seemed to want to have children, not avoid them. A very different position then many take today.

EdmundBlackadderTheThird · Jun 30, 2005

Discerning what scripture speaks on this is complicated. Onan's sin was more than just disobediance as is evidenced by the simple fact there is disobediance of God that doesn't result in death throughout the OT so why is Onan's sin of disobediance worthy of death? To claim Onan's only sin was disobedience is a cop out in my opinion. It is shown throughout church history that his sin was much more than that. Learned men throughout church history have all taken the same stance, including the reformers, it has been less than 100 years that churches have changed their position on this. The question should not be why birth control is allright but why have we strayed into teaching that it is.

Children are never refered to as anything less than a blessing from God. One could make a case for denying God's blessing being sinful. One could also make a case that denying the fullness of God's creation is sinful. Sex for recreation only denies the fullness of sex as planned out by God and a strong case could be made for that being a perversion of God's creation and therefore sinful.

The strongest case is simply what scripture says in reference to children. If one was to look at scripture and ignore what society says about children and go from scripture alone no Christian would be practicing birth control.

kidsminister · Jun 30, 2005

TwinCrier said:
The tone of my post? I was sharing my own personal experience. In any case, there just is not any "solid Scripture reference in support of either position." Most people in the bible seemed to want to have children, not avoid them. A very different position then many take today.

I was also referring to other posts of yours that I've seen. They tend to come across somewhat hostile to those who do not share your opinions exactly.

Not trying to start an argument here...just making an observation! Sorry if I offended you .

As I've mentioned, I DO want children. And I really don't practice birth control myself, as I have said before - if my husband and I feel like having sex, we do. Our focus is definitely recreational , but we also acknowledge that whenever you engage in sex, you need to be prepared for the possibility that you could get pregnant. Even if you ARE using BC. And if you aren't prepared for the possibility of parenthood, don't have sex. I could go off on a tangent about teen sex here, and how no one seems to think it will happen to them, but I won't...

I love children. I think they are a blessing. Heck, I'm a children's pastor!! I was just looking to see if anyone knew of any Scripture that specifically addressed the issue. It's nice to know these things, for my own personal knowledge, and in case someone in my church asks me!

I guess that my view is that if the Bible doesn't specifially, solidly address it, I'm not going to spend that much time or energy worrying about it...

kidsminister · Jun 30, 2005

flesh99 said:
Discerning what scripture speaks on this is complicated. Onan's sin was more than just disobediance as is evidenced by the simple fact there is disobediance of God that doesn't result in death throughout the OT so why is Onan's sin of disobediance worthy of death? To claim Onan's only sin was disobedience is a cop out in my opinion. It is shown throughout church history that his sin was much more than that. Learned men throughout church history have all taken the same stance, including the reformers, it has been less than 100 years that churches have changed their position on this. The question should not be why birth control is allright but why have we strayed into teaching that it is.

Children are never refered to as anything less than a blessing from God. One could make a case for denying God's blessing being sinful. One could also make a case that denying the fullness of God's creation is sinful. Sex for recreation only denies the fullness of sex as planned out by God and a strong case could be made for that being a perversion of God's creation and therefore sinful.

The strongest case is simply what scripture says in reference to children. If one was to look at scripture and ignore what society says about children and go from scripture alone no Christian would be practicing birth control.

That is faulty logic. In the New Testament, Ananias and Sapphira were struck dead for lying to the church leaders and the Holy Spirit. Many people do that today. Other people lied and blasphemed the Holy Spirit in Scripture. Not all were struck dead.

God is sovereign, and He does what He will.

I am not denying that children are a blessing from the Lord, or what the Bible says about them. However, I am not interested in what the reformers thought. I am interested in a specific Scriptural command where God tells us not to practice birth control.

If there is not one, then, as I said previously, I am not going to worry about it anymore...

e=mv^2 · Jun 30, 2005

There is no scripture that says "Thou shalt not use birth control"

There is no scripture that says "Thou shalt use ony barrier methods"

There is no scripture that says anything at all really about birth control.

Birth control did exist back then. The Egyptians were using crocodile dung of all things as a contraceptive - yet there is no specific metion of it.

There is no official fundamentalist viewpoint on birth control that I am aware of.

There is no chapter in "The Fundamentals" that deals with birth control.

Children are a blessing. Possibly the greatest blessing that can ever be given to us. They are also one of the greatest risks and challenges.
They are the most rewarding thing that we as humans can have happen to us and can totally upend your life. There is no question that a child changes your life dramaticly.

Birth control is a very personal matter. There can be no 100% right or wrong in this matter. Is it good to be quiverfull? Yes! Absolutely it is. An abundant family is a wonderful thing.
Is it really a bad thing to limit yourself to 2 children? 4? 17? 30? Should you be required to stop sexual relations at any given point in your life?

I do not know.

The only thing I can say about birth control is that after fertilization of the egg is complete it should be protected as life. beyond that we all have to make a call for ourselves.

The law is written on our hearts. It is very possible that what is written on your heart is different from what is written on mine.

I might eat shellfish and another might not.

I might drink beer and another might not.

I might falter easily on matters that are simple for another to avoid. (I do.. just fyi...)

I think that this is one issue that we need not bicker over. We can not say one way or the other on this issue so we should share what is right for ourselves and leave it at that.

lismore · Jul 1, 2005

e=mv^2 said:
There is no scripture that says "Thou shalt not use birth control"

.

No

But there is a Holy SPirit that leads you into all truth and convicts the world in regards to sin and righteousness.

Now 'birth control'. The one who controls birth is not you.

Job 39:1 NIV "Do you know when the mountain goats give birth? Do you watch when the doe bears her fawn?

If you wish you use sex with your spouse for recreational purposes then knock yourself out! But whether the female will conceive is in God's hands. There is a word for taking the place of God, Im sure you know what it is.

If you wish to have sex but not have a child why not ask this the Lord this, that he would stop the process, this way you confirm his Lordship and still have your pleasure:
Jeremiah 32:27 NIV

Read this Chapter
"I am the LORD, the God of all mankind. Is anything too hard for me?

Now, when so many people want to adopt a child, why not be a surrogate mother? if it is the raising of the child that disgusts you, someone else could raise the child?

Just a few ideas

kidsminister · Jul 1, 2005

lismore said:
No

If you wish you use sex with your spouse for recreational purposes then knock yourself out! But whether the female will conceive is in God's hands. There is a word for taking the place of God, Im sure you know what it is.

If you wish to have sex but not have a child why not ask this the Lord this, that he would stop the process, this way you confirm his Lordship and still have your pleasure:

Now, when so many people want to adopt a child, why not be a surrogate mother? if it is the raising of the child that disgusts you, someone else could raise the child?

Just a few ideas

First, I believe it is God's design for sex to be recreational and pleasurable. My Scriptural basis for this is the book of Song of Solomon. If it was primarily about making babies, then we'd just "get the job done," the same way a dog or a cat would...no pleasure, no intimacy - just procreation. I hope and pray that for all you married people, it's NOT like that...

Also, most people who use birth control are not "disgusted" by the idea of having or raising a child. If they were, they'd get it taken care of permanently.

However, in this day and age, many husbands and wives just starting out have to work full time. As a woman, I can say that I don't want to have a child, just to spend 3 months' maternity leave with him or her, and then have a daycare provider basically raise my child. Many would say that I shouldn't have gotten married, then, until I could afford to stay home with my child...but that's a different thread .

Other women, as mentioned, use birth control pills to control severe menstrual pain. That doesn't go away just because you get married!

Still others are working through emotional issues or mood disorders, where, if they threw a child in the mix, it would seriously complicate things - so they are postponing it.

There are many other reasons for using temporary methods of birth control, the least of which is that they are disgusted by the prospect of having a child, or that they don't view children as a blessing!

MatthewDiscipleofGod · Jul 1, 2005

You seem to show there are various reasons why people would use the pill. What do you say to the fact that all pill based birth controls, even when taken normally, can cause abortions?

kidsminister said:
First, I believe it is God's design for sex to be recreational and pleasurable. My Scriptural basis for this is the book of Song of Solomon. If it was primarily about making babies, then we'd just "get the job done," the same way a dog or a cat would...no pleasure, no intimacy - just procreation. I hope and pray that for all you married people, it's NOT like that...

Also, most people who use birth control are not "disgusted" by the idea of having or raising a child. If they were, they'd get it taken care of permanently.

However, in this day and age, many husbands and wives just starting out have to work full time. As a woman, I can say that I don't want to have a child, just to spend 3 months' maternity leave with him or her, and then have a daycare provider basically raise my child. Many would say that I shouldn't have gotten married, then, until I could afford to stay home with my child...but that's a different thread .

Other women, as mentioned, use birth control pills to control severe menstrual pain. That doesn't go away just because you get married!

Still others are working through emotional issues or mood disorders, where, if they threw a child in the mix, it would seriously complicate things - so they are postponing it.

There are many other reasons for using temporary methods of birth control, the least of which is that they are disgusted by the prospect of having a child, or that they don't view children as a blessing!

kidsminister · Jul 2, 2005

Project 86 said:
You seem to show there are various reasons why people would use the pill. What do you say to the fact that all pill based birth controls, even when taken normally, can cause abortions?

Well, the point of my post was not that - it was to show that most people who use BC are not "disgusted" by children, or deny that they are a blessing. They're just choosing to wait for that blessing! But since you asked...

I had heard that argument against the pill, and brought up that very concern to my doctor when I first started taking it when I got married. I did not want to put anything into my body that could cause an abortion.

My doctor explained how the brand of "the pill" she would prescribe me works...it blocks ovulation. If you don't ovulate, you don't get pregnant. If, for some reason, it does not block ovulation, you could still get pregnant. It is 99% effective. Pretty cut and dried.

There are many brands and dosages of "the pill" out there. I did my research, being staunchly pro-life, and made sure that the particular type of birth control I used was NOT an abortifacient. I trust the sources I consulted, and I trust the doctor I spoke with.

I am well acquainted with many "birth control babies," that is, babies born to friends and relatives who took the pill regularly and still ended up pregnant. No birth defects...no complications...just a "glitch" in the system.

I know that this is a no-win discussion, however - I've read all the literature opposing and favoring BC, I've heard all the arguments for and against. I'm not going to change my position, nor are those opposed to it going to change theirs.

As I said in a previous post, if God didn't bother to clearly address it in Scripture, then I am not going to worry about it.

I am officially done with this discussion. Bye-bye!

MatthewDiscipleofGod · Jul 3, 2005

kidsminister said:
My doctor explained how the brand of "the pill" she would prescribe me works...it blocks ovulation. If you don't ovulate, you don't get pregnant. If, for some reason, it does not block ovulation, you could still get pregnant. It is 99% effective. Pretty cut and dried.

Did she mention that if you still have an egg and sperm combine to form a new life that the pill could cause the egg to not attach to the wall and therefore killing the life of the baby? I have read many medical papers on this. I'm about to get married so this is an important matter to me. I have yet to find any pill that does not stop the egg from attaching to the wall sometimes so that the baby can live and grow. That's one of the few reasons why we will use natural planning. If you can tell me the name of the pill and show me where it will never stop the egg from attaching to the wall that would be big news to me and I would like to know about it.

Adammi · Jul 3, 2005

Holly3278 said:
What is your view on birth control? Please vote and tell us in here or explain why you voted the way you did.

I am appalled by Christians who view pre-conception abortion acceptable. My mom tried for eleven years to have children and was told that she would never be able to have children. Until one day God decided otherwise. She was at the 700 club about 16 years ago and they had special prayer for women who wanted to but couldn't have children and about 9 months later I was born. I am inspired by that because I know that God did the impossible to get me here and he loves me and my parents wanted me and waited for me for eleven years. Praise God!
I couldn't imagine what it would be like to say that I am the 10%.

lismore · Jul 4, 2005

Upon_This_Rock said:
I am appalled by Christians who view pre-conception abortion acceptable. My mom tried for eleven years to have children and was told that she would never be able to have children. Until one day God decided otherwise. She was at the 700 club about 16 years ago and they had special prayer for women who wanted to but couldn't have children and about 9 months later I was born. I am inspired by that because I know that God did the impossible to get me here and he loves me and my parents wanted me and waited for me for eleven years. Praise God!
I couldn't imagine what it would be like to say that I am the 10%.

Amen, PTL

I am also surprised by many Christian's attitude towards this issue.

You were bought at a price.

Galatians 2:20 NIV
I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

If people absolutely must have sex and absolutely dont want to have a child, can they not pray committing it into the lord's hands. Explain to the Lord that you want the pleasure of sex but not a child.

If you are taking these awful things for health reasons then I recommend:

James 5:14 NIV Is any one of you sick? He should call theelders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord.

Trust in the Lord with your whole heart, you cannot serve both Gopd and the sin nature.

lismore · Jul 4, 2005

kidsminister said:
First, I believe it is God's design for sex to be recreational and pleasurable. My Scriptural basis for this is the book of Song of Solomon. If it was primarily about making babies, then we'd just "get the job done," the same way a dog or a cat would...no pleasure, no intimacy - just procreation. I hope and pray that for all you married people, it's NOT like that...

Also, most people who use birth control are not "disgusted" by the idea of having or raising a child. If they were, they'd get it taken care of permanently.

However, in this day and age, many husbands and wives just starting out have to work full time. As a woman, I can say that I don't want to have a child, just to spend 3 months' maternity leave with him or her, and then have a daycare provider basically raise my child. Many would say that I shouldn't have gotten married, then, until I could afford to stay home with my child...but that's a different thread .

Other women, as mentioned, use birth control pills to control severe menstrual pain. That doesn't go away just because you get married!

Still others are working through emotional issues or mood disorders, where, if they threw a child in the mix, it would seriously complicate things - so they are postponing it.

There are many other reasons for using temporary methods of birth control, the least of which is that they are disgusted by the prospect of having a child, or that they don't view children as a blessing!

Hi there

Hope you are well.

What is the main issue here? I suspect its the same as the main issue anywhere. What is the will of God in the situation.

If you require physical, emotional or social healing then look no further.

Psalm 103:

Praise the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits- who forgives all your sins and heals all your diseases,

You do not have to turn to the world system or accept worldly values. You have been sanctified by the blood of Jesus, there is a distinction between you and the world. You are a child of God, you do not have to rationalise any longer.

Exodus 8: 22 " 'But on that day I will deal differently with the land of Goshen, where my people live; no swarms of flies will be there, so that you will know that I, the LORD, am in this land. 23 I will make a distinction [a] between my people and your people. This miraculous sign will occur tomorrow.' "

If you think you cant afford children dont fall into sin because of this, we follow the God who turns situations around.

Isaiah 61:6 And you will be called priests of the LORD,
you will be named ministers of our God.
You will feed on the wealth of nations,
and in their riches you will boast.

Luke 11:9"So I say to you: Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 10For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.

God wants to bless you abundantly, children are a gift from God. Turn to the lord in the time of trouble. Seek his will, his purposes, pour out your heart to him and he will not despise you.

P>S Can you please post scripture references for some of the things you mentioned in your post

Lismore

Your view on birth control?

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