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Your thoughts on the identity of Babylon in Revelation 17

Matt5

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Let's start with a list of countries that you hate. The Mystery Babylon will likely be at or near the top. Is Iran there?

Let's see how Iran drinks the blood of the saints and then gets what it deserves:

'Yoma 10a in the Talmud – “Rabbi Yochanan said in the name of Rabbi Yehuda in the name of Rabbi Ilayi: In the time to come, Rome will fall at the hands of Persia.”' - https://goo.gl/B2YrY7

Notice that Muslims are already talking about conquering Rome: Al-Aqsa Mosque Address: We Will Conquer Rome | MEMRI Al-Aqsa Mosque Address: We Will Soon Establish the Caliphate, Liberate Jerusalem and Conquer Rome



Iran nukes Rome via nuclear terrorism, and then the retaliation comes to Iran (Persia) after 9 months. The retaliation from Nato is also nuclear.

Rabbi Yonasan Eibshetz (1690-1764) in his book Ya’arot Dvash – “At a certain moment the time will come when the Messiah should have already arrived but the redemption has not yet come. The Messiah will ask how it could be that the time for redemption has arrived and he still undergoes sufferings? The response that he will receive is that he must wait for nine months. Why? In order to wait for the fall of Persia (Iran) at the hands of Edom (the Christian West), and then the final redemption will come!”

The Iranian people will be spread across the whole world as they flee destruction.

Note that the name Allah in Arabic is written on the Iranian flag. Put two crossed swords underneath and rotate 90 degrees clockwise. You get in Greek numbers: 600, 60 and 6.
 
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Berean Tim

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Hey !! We agreed on something LOL
 
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nolidad

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Without going into enormous detail (which if asked I will ) we must look at teh chapter to discover this cities identity.

The city is also a woman which when used symbolically always represents a religious system.

As she is the mother of all harlots- we must go back and find the first false religious system that all false religious system sprang from. and that is ancient Babylon itself.! Even today many religions still practice the mysteries that date back to Babylon. Even some sects of Christendom.

Saddam Hussein rebuilt a scale Babylon. the U.S. built a massive embassy in teh vicinity of Babylon. Many many modern and powerful buildings have been built around Babylon.

As the antichrist and the ten kings reign- Without getting into all teh details, they will reign from Babylon which will become the world capitol so to speak and the greatest city on earth during the reign of antichrist! It isf from here he marches and captures Jerusalem and then enters the holy of holies, declare himself God and commits the abomination of desolation as Jesus said in Matt. 24.

All worldly religious and political systems have roots in Nimrod, Semiramis and Babylon.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Thanks for your thoughts.

No problem. Glad to help! But y'know, I've always wondered something: since Mystery, Babylon sits on the back of the Beast who has multiple heads and horns, is the Beast voluntarily carrying her, or is she instead dominating and pulling the reigns?

This relation of roles isn't one that I've seen anyone really work out ... and so I'm left wondering.
 
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Silly Uncle Wayne

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Rome (as it was then and nothing to do with what it is now). I'm pan millennialist
 
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Maria Billingsley

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Jerusalem
 
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Freedm

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And I think with this thorough and definitive proof of the identity of Babylon, it is settled and this thread can now come to a close.
 
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Saint JOHN

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Historist;

Re 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified [it] by his angel unto his servant John:

this was near 2000 years ago ! most done;

OK as to question...

Rome the church; 1st beast dead Imperial Rome; Papal Rome takes over; on basic 7 hills; (Israel goes after other nations and Gods ;still in some ways trying to amalgamate Gods ways !! not on !) just like churches today harlots.
Ten kingdom ages types through the ages Papal Rome had great power over many governments and kingdoms and peoples and still holds sway over many; killed many true Christians.(Gods ways alright !)

harlots churches spawned from this, them with slight variations ..not true Christian at all;

read mark 16v16+

sorry don't have much time for this as mainly look to salvation.

most think believing is acceptance (to varying degrees) that God is or Jesus Christ is etc eg I believe there is a president in USA ! does that automatically mean I'm an American citizen !!?? there are protocols set up as with God.

read the book of Acts to see how they received the Holy Spirit (salvation)

still the same today...man has set up his own ways !! (many)
 
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ViaCrucis

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But Iraq is the current state that contains Nebuchadnezzar's Babylon.

Is there reason to think that Babylon is literally Babylon, when the text tells us what kind of city this is (it sits on seven hills), and the beast she rides has a number of heads with crowns, representing a series of kings? In the text we read,

"This calls for a mind with wisdom: the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is seated; they are also seven kings, five of whom have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come, and when he does come he must remain only a little while." - Revelation 17:9-10

This would indicate that the power which is being identified, Babylon and the beast upon which she rides, existed at the time John was writing.

Babylon hadn't been a major political power for over five centuries at the time the Apocalypse was written. In fact it had been reduced to little more than a mining town at the time.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Matt5

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I walk through why I think the Mystery Babylon is Iran (Tehran) at the top of page 2. At the bottom of my post I mention that the name Allah in Arabic is tied to 600, 60 and 6 in Greek numbers, aka the beast. Iran has the name of Allah on its flag.

Iranian leaders have talked about hastening the arrival of the Mahdi (Antichrist.) This happens during chaos, and chaos means millions of deaths. Iran needs a nuclear arsenal to make that happen.
 
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Marilyn C

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Hi Michael,

I agree with you. Lots of good points there. probably over most people`s heads as they have been taught about the RRE (Revived Roman Empire) view.

I was taught what you have laid out, many years ago by my teachers. I have studied God`s word and watched the prophecies coming about.

I think you cover quite a lot of ground in your op and that might be too much for most people here. Any way we can discuss your good points though and be pleased that some are receiving the truth.
 
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Marilyn C

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So my view of Babylon.

It will be the centre of the A/C`s global government. Zech. 5: 5 - 11 reveals the economic aspect is taken to the land of Shinar, in Iraq.

The false religion (the UN`s moral laws) will be done away with, (Rev. 17: 16) by the 10 kings as there is no more use for them. They were just used to get the people of the world trying to `save the planet.`

The Political leadership of the global government is by the Assyrian, (Isa. 31:8) from the region of Iraq, Syria & Jordan. This leader will bring together these 3 and uproot them from their colonial background.

The 10 kings are -

3 - Iraq, Syria & Jordan.
7 - Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar, UAE, Omar, Saudi Arabia, & Yeman.
 
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Douggg

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Revelation 16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.


Babylon the great has nothing to do with being an earthly city of any country. It is the antithesis of the Kingdom of Heaven.


It is the mystical - i.e. unseen - kingdom of Satan and his third of the angels that rebelled against God eons ago - before Adam and Eve.

Babylon the great represents evil, wickedness, violence that Satan and his third of the angels have trafficked in - all over the earth.
 
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Berean Tim

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"This calls for a mind with wisdom: the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is seated; they are also seven kings, five of whom have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come, and when he does come he must remain only a little while." - Revelation 17:9-10
The only reason for one to use the word "hills" is to identify Rome. "Mountain" is usually describing Kingdoms. As in Daniel 2:
[aj]all at the same time, and they were like chaff from the summer threshing floors; and the wind carried them away so that not a trace of them was found. But the stone that struck the statue became a great mountain and filled the entire earth.
With the "mountains" also being Kings this is almost a certainty. The 7 Mountains are not describing the land the Woman is seated, more likely a political confederation.
 
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Religiot

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"So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: and upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration. And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns. The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful. And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the harlot sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the harlot, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled. And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth." --Revelations 17:3-18

What city is it, that reigns over the kings of the earth?

And remember, geography is not the key, for the Lord was crucified in both Egypt and Sodom.

Look to cities that have been around for thousands of years, and grow more and more in opulence: only one sticks out sore, above all others; and she does rule over the kings of the earth, to this very day.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Showing a single passage which compares a kingdom with a mountain doesn't seem to be quite enough to establish that hills/mountains refers to kingdoms as a recurring thematic element.

It doesn't make sense to me that the angel would go out of its way to identify Babylon and the beast she rides unless John (and his readers) should be able to have been able to figure out the meaning.

This is one of the problems I have with many readings of the Apocalypse, it requires that neither the author nor the original intended audience could understand the meaning. It's the same reason why the identity of the beast in Revelation 13 is specifically said to have a name with a numerical value of six hundred and sixty-six, that's the hint, the clue, the thing to pay attention to.

"This calls for a mind with wisdom" is a way to say, "Pay attention, you can figure this out". And so the identity of the Beast, the identity of Babylon, was something John and his audience (the seven churches in Asia) know, he expects his audience to be able to figure it out.

If the identity of these things did not exist yet, then it makes no sense for John to go out of his way to say, "Pay attention here".

The Apocalypse wasn't written to us, or to some group of people living at the end of the world--it's written to Christians living in the first century, in the province of Asia.

-CyptoLutheran
 
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Douggg

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The Apocalypse wasn't written to us, or to some group of people living at the end of the world--it's written to Christians living in the first century, in the province of Asia.
...about the events regarding the return of Jesus at the time of the end. Obviously the gospel had not been spread to all nations of world in the first century.

Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
 
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Douggg

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I have no idea what your post above has to do with what I wrote in my post #37.
 
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