you will be judged even if decieved

ToddNotTodd · Oct 8, 2016

gradyll said:
evolved from a rock, evolved from a primordial ooze puddle in a rock....it's all the same type of rationalizing.

No, it's apple and oranges to anyone with any basic knowledge of evolution.

gradyll said:
ever hear the saying "third rock from the sun""

Colloquialisms have nothing to do with reality.

createdtoworship · Oct 8, 2016

ToddNotTodd said:
No, it's apple and oranges to anyone with any basic knowledge of evolution.

Colloquialisms have nothing to do with reality.

knowledge of something that is quess work, is not really my concern.

if you were not there, eleventy billion years ago, with your test lab kit in hand....taking pictures and documenting this ooze, then it is un observed.

If it is unobserved then it cannot be part of the scientific method that requires observation.

if it's not science, then why are we even talking about it?

I want to see pictures and test labs for your ooze.

if you cannot provide it, then it is not validated.

Eudaimonist · Oct 9, 2016

gradyll said:
God is self existant and self defining.

So, arguably, is physical reality.

so God in essence does not have a beginning, due to Him being outside of time and space dimensions.

The universe (by which I mean all physical reality) is outside of time and space dimensions. Those are internal to the universe. The universe does not exist in any time or space dimensions outside of itself.

thus without having a beginning, He is not necessitating a cause.

Physical reality also does not have a beginning, in the sense of something that is caused.

but scientists collectively state that the universe has a beginning, so it necessitates a cause for that beginning.

I think that you are misunderstanding scientists on that point. They only mean that the past may be finite, which is consistent with the universe having no cause.

eudaimonia,

Mark

Eudaimonist · Oct 9, 2016

gradyll said:
God never wants us to get people saved, so my appearance to you is not the critical thing.

Actually, it is the critical thing...for me and for any ethically aware human being. Perhaps not for you or what you imagine God's perspective to be. The appearance is based on something worthy of moral condemnation.

He said make disciples.

not converts.

I got that.

plus if you are my convert, you will stink of bias and being opinionated, as I am.

And here you have shot your argument in the foot.

But if you are God's convert you resemble what He does and says.

Allegedly.

if you see something wrong in what I say....it's me saying it.

if you see something eternal in what I say...it's God saying it.

That's very convenient. It is a common ploy of ideologues. My ideology can't be wrong -- only I can be wrong -- but just go on believing that the ideology is perfect.

when you come to Christ you lay down your digital God's and God's of lust and porno, and other God's of material and Gold and Girls, or Boys....and you lay them down and you Follow Jesus.

if you cannot do this...you won't make it.

do you understand?

Yes, I got that point quite a while back. You were very clear that you aren't only talking about the contents of one's worldview. However, since that worldview is the necessary condition for your idea of "following Jesus", you haven't really dealt with that issue.

IF you think...."who can be saved?"

then the answer is ...no one.

but with God "all things are possible"

That literally makes no logical sense. You've just contradicted yourself.

Is all this worth it to you?

granted Hell will not be your next destination on your trip of life...

so it's important to weigh all alternatives.

You haven't presented me with any alternatives that exist in reality.

eudaimonia,

Mark

createdtoworship · Oct 9, 2016

Eudaimonist said:
That literally makes no logical sense. You've just contradicted yourself.

but again all things are possible with God. So what appears to be a contradiction, is not with God.
I won't get into the technical details of this, as you won't really grasp it. plus it's off topic. You can message me if you want an in depth conversation about my theology and soteriology, I suspect my message box will be empty later,however. as I don't expect that you desire God at all, and seek to justify your lifestyle with I presume reaks of sin and licentiousness. but I must ask, how is the life of sin treating you? What has sin accomplished for you in your life. Are your relationships better as a result? Not talking about money, Satan can give you money. But he can't give you things only God can give. Relationships of love, true comradery with other brothers in the Lord. Purpose for being. A meaning for life. and a host of other things, including an eternal destiny from Hell. There really is no better package out there. God longs for relationship, not because He needs it, because we do.

You haven't presented me with any alternatives that exist in reality.

and this is your problem.

"my kingdom is not of this world, if it were my servants would fight"

(this was spoken to the roman cohort led to arrest Jesus at the garden of gethsemany.

see if Jesus' kingdom was of this world, He would win elections, He would have a huge army battling all darkness, not just terrorism but even lies, and petty thefts. It would be the micro managment of eternity.

in fact in the millenial reign we will have the power to battle darkness, granted it will be a period of peace. But all rebellion will be crushed, it will be the dictator of dictators. And the only real true dictator.

all dictators attempt to be God in the world, and no one can dictate, accept the true God.

and you want only Him to do so.

but you are focussing on evidence. And although there are many many many many evidences, I feel you are not ready for them.

so for you we speak in parables.

"Mark 4:11-12 And He said to them, “To you it has been given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God; but to those who are outside (the faith), all things come in parables, 12 so that

‘Seeing they may see and not perceive,
And hearing they may hear and not understand;
Lest they should turn,
And their sins be forgiven them.’”
The reason Jesus spoke in parables was to encode the salvation forumula so that people who were not ready for this Life, were assuming purposefully planted allegory as true, when in reality the allegories were not meant to be taken literally but meant for an interpretation which was only given to the close followers of Christ, but the parables were given to the multitude. It was the first documented use of cryptography. Here the encoded message has not been given to you yet. So that you may remain in sin until your appointed time.

If you truly are open minded, again message me and I will post off topic stuff there.

but again I dont' think you will.

90% sure.

10% don't know.

createdtoworship · Oct 9, 2016

ToddNotTodd said:
No, it's apple and oranges to anyone with any basic knowledge of evolution.

Colloquialisms have nothing to do with reality.

apples and oranges, are they really that different? they are both fruit of the tree, live in orchards, harvested similarly packaged similarly and sold at the same corner markets, both organic. and both creations of God.

notice all hormone free, non gmo, stuff coming right off the vine, is actually a creation of God?

the stuff that is healthiest is God given, the homone enhanced, gmo etc...stuff that sells well but is bad for heath is a product of mans ingenuity. It's the the technical manual is correct on how to use the product of man's body. (the Bible is our technical manual).

createdtoworship · Oct 9, 2016

Eudaimonist said:
So, arguably, is physical reality.

The universe (by which I mean all physical reality) is outside of time and space dimensions. Those are internal to the universe. The universe does not exist in any time or space dimensions outside of itself.

Physical reality also does not have a beginning, in the sense of something that is caused.

I think that you are misunderstanding scientists on that point. They only mean that the past may be finite, which is consistent with the universe having no cause.

eudaimonia,

Mark

actually the universe is not outside of time, the matter in the universe requires time. It's part of the ensteins theory of relativity. the non matter, for that matter, need not be even called the universe because it's not part of a real thing. tangeable observable or otherwise scientific.

createdtoworship · Oct 9, 2016

Eudaimonist said:
Physical reality also does not have a beginning, in the sense of something that is caused.

this is not something you can replicate empirically or otherwise prove, so it's stricken from the record.

createdtoworship · Oct 9, 2016

Eudaimonist said:
I think that you are misunderstanding scientists on that point. They only mean that the past may be finite, which is consistent with the universe having no cause.

eudaimonia,

Mark

I think, rather you fail to acknowledge your very own scientific perspective fully.

the universe according to modern science was caused by a great "singularity"

http://ptp.oxfordjournals.org/content/46/3/776.short

but that is a contradiction as something that is Caused needs a cause, that is uncaused.

a singularity is caused by external forces most of which science hardly comprehends. But it is caused non the less.

so resultingly, the only answer is=

not a singularity (or other caused phenomenon)
but a single...God (the only uncaused phenomenon currently in existance)

Steve Petersen · Oct 9, 2016

gradyll said:
For a long time I believed God will never judge those who don't know about him.

but given the law of nature* innate in our mental instincts.

Even if we are deceived it appears God will still judge* us.

source: (adam and eve being deceived still rejected from the garden).

so this motive that satan can deceive man in a way that makes God curse his creation, has been the motive of satan for thousands of years.

But I used to try to sugar coat my ideas, that the pigmi's in africa never heard the Gospel and would be safe.

but the truth is, that via deception of the prince of the air, the chances are not looking good for them.

hence this motive led one of the greatest missionary movements of our time.

1789-1914 the great missionary era.

We are no longer in a missionary era, and that is unfortunate.

what are your thoughts.

Footnotes:

*law of nature, as explained by CS lewis (explanation of this is allowed on this thread)
**Judgement - great white throne judgement, of all wrong doings: Revelation 20:12-14: "12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death."

(note:now, one can argue that eve was the one deceived and not adam. Meaning that either He KNEW what was happening, and chose to do it anyway. Which begs the question when we are deceived, if deep inside, if we REALLY are suppressing the truth for a lie.)

see truth decay in OP

That's some God you've created there.

Who would EVER worship a God like that?!

createdtoworship · Oct 9, 2016

Steve Petersen said:
That's some God you've created there.

Who would EVER worship a God like that?!

I used to run from God, like you are doing.

but not anymore. Got tiring.

why are you running if you are not guilty?

let me share one of my favorite bands right now:

finally --don't you want to dance like this guy, with Joy finally?

(right now I am puzzled as to where his bass guitarist and keyboardist are residing.....lol)

createdtoworship · Oct 9, 2016

duplicate

yeshuaslavejeff · Oct 9, 2016

gradyll said:
oh sorry, Im used to athiest's telling me this stuff but not fellow believers.

well for believers I suggest starting out with reading mere christianity, to get up to par with this debate.

that should be very minimal for acceptance. (lol.)

Or read SCRIPTURE seeking the TRUTH and seeking YHWH to know the TRUTH.
I just checked the TITLE - saw the word 'deceived'
and mere christianity won't cut it for many, won't set them free if they are deceived.
TRUTH will set them free.

Steve Petersen · Oct 9, 2016

gradyll said:
I used to run from God, like you are doing.

but not anymore. Got tiring.

why are you running if you are not guilty?

let me share one of my favorite bands right now:

finally --don't you want to dance like this guy, with Joy finally?

(right now I am puzzled as to where his bass guitarist and keyboardist are residing.....lol)

I'm not running from God but from peoples portrayal of Him.

Steve Petersen · Oct 9, 2016

gradyll said:
oh sorry, Im used to athiest's telling me this stuff but not fellow believers.

well for believers I suggest starting out with reading mere christianity, to get up to par with this debate.

that should be very minimal for acceptance. (lol.)

Have read it. It did not convince me.

createdtoworship · Oct 9, 2016

yeshuaslavejeff said:
Or read SCRIPTURE seeking the TRUTH and seeking YHWH to know the TRUTH.
I just checked the TITLE - saw the word 'deceived'
and mere christianity won't cut it for many, won't set them free if they are deceived.
TRUTH will set them free.

good stuff.

I don't expect anything to work, I am just doing my part.

createdtoworship · Oct 9, 2016

Steve Petersen said:
I'm not running from God but from peoples portrayal of Him.

God uses people.

we are his media.

God could have picked one of a gazillion angels to personally put a High definition display in the clouds of the Gospel message, yet He chose to use fallible humans.

I don't quite understand it, other than having us share in the joy when someone finally comes home from the war of the world.

finally at peace.

createdtoworship · Oct 9, 2016

Steve Petersen said:
I'm not running from God but from peoples portrayal of Him.

keep telling yourself that....I suppose your the one who needs convincing.

but one question....

don't you want to know what is out there?

in the universe?

I am not talking about aliens in and off which we have no empiracle evidence for...but the Real God.

don't you want to know what sparked off the Big bang?

the type of power that lies in the Man behind that?

What He is like, How He talks, and How He walks?

The word meekness means etymologically as a powerful stallion that is able to be broken.

when we come to Him we must lay down pride and self sufficiency, and humble ourselfes to his Mastery.

He is our pilot now.

will you believe, or will you deceive?

bhsmte · Oct 9, 2016

yeshuaslavejeff said:
Or read SCRIPTURE seeking the TRUTH and seeking YHWH to know the TRUTH.
I just checked the TITLE - saw the word 'deceived'
and mere christianity won't cut it for many, won't set them free if they are deceived.
TRUTH will set them free.

What truth?

How do you verify you have found the truth?

yeshuaslavejeff · Oct 9, 2016

gradyll said:
God could have picked one of a gazillion angels to personally put a High definition display in the clouds of the Gospel message, yet He chose to use fallible humans.

footnote for later(not on forum)
look up the GOSPEL in the stars (YHWH'S message to the whole world in the stars)
no, NOT astrology like nor of the world....

you will be judged even if decieved

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