You Shall Know a Tree By Its Fruit

BarryK · Mar 4, 2006

Do You think that our leaders are bearing the fruit ( joy, peace, love, etc) which indicates a strong walk with Jesus Christ?

bliz · Mar 4, 2006

Who are "our leaders"?

BarryK · Mar 4, 2006

bliz said:
Who are "our leaders"?

our elected and appointed goverment, civil, and community officials and public servants. Those whose names that you see in the news, those who represent you in our statehouses, and at the federal level

brent_the_sdsu_showpony · Mar 4, 2006

our leaders are not like jesus......George bush is evil, how could he start a war and kill many innocent people? is that a christian? i dont know......i think ur right, our leaders are not good.

bliz · Mar 5, 2006

BarryK said:
our elected and appointed goverment, civil, and community officials and public servants. Those whose names that you see in the news, those who represent you in our statehouses, and at the federal level

Well, that's a whole lot of people....

First, I do not look for fruit from non-Christians, so I'm not expecting fruit from the vast majority of those in public office, be they appointed or elected.

Do I see fruit being born by the members of the current administrative branch of the US government? This is a joke, right? I see people who love money and power , who have no compassion for the poor and who bring about mistrust and hatred and death and who continually lie and deceive. No, I see no fruit being born there.

Anderlecht · Mar 5, 2006

Speaking of leaders. Britain's prime minister Tony Blair has for the first time started to "play the God card" in justifying himself in front of public about his geo-political wheeling and dealing and his decisions about Iraq. But still he managed to claim that none of the actions he took were wrong, none. He basically declared that he is incapable of discerning right from wrong! He spoke--->

"That decision has to be taken and lived with and, in the end, there's a judgment that, well, I think if you have faith about these things then you realise that judgment is made by other people."

Only by other people? Not by oneself?

greenjeans · Mar 6, 2006

what leaders? they have there own agendas, which are always against the word of God, and morally corrupt.
I don't know about anyone else but my leader is Jesus and he's not here yet. I hope and pray he soon will be.

Combatchuc11 · Mar 8, 2006

Bliz and Greenjeans, do you personally know our leaders? If not, how do you know what they are and are not doing? The media? I wouldn't recommend the media as a reliable source of information. Sure, I bet we could all think of examples of individuals in politics that we could say "are not bearing fruit" however, each of you stated an entire group of people. Doesn't that seem that an a little judgemental? To answer the question, no, I don't see them "bearing fruit" however, I don't see anyone on these boards bearing fruit because I don't see a single person in real life.

Ave Maria · Mar 9, 2006

Some of them are but most of them are not.

applepowerpc · Mar 12, 2006

Let me put it this way: when a tree bears rotten, unappealing fruit, or no fruit at all, that is one thing. When a tree takes the appearance of luscious apples, which entice you to cultivate the tree & take a bite--but inside they are full of poison--that is far worse. And that is how I view our "Christian" administration, whom I even voted for in 2000.

There are thousands or millions of non-Christians who will never eat apples ever again.

Anderlecht · Mar 14, 2006

applepowerpc said:
....... whom I even voted for in 2000.

not that that counted anyway (more important was the vote of 5 folks out of in-total 9 people wearing black robes

Angel of God · Mar 15, 2006

BarryK said:
Do You think that our leaders are bearing the fruit ( joy, peace, love, etc) which indicates a strong walk with Jesus Christ?

The money is the owner of USA etc.......
This money is not christian because it's free
for non-christian things
(However I am for a free education and for "work-flesh" alleance... for a christianity more right....... infact even If a nation today would force all to be "false"..christians then also real christians would lose their christianity....)

However USA would not be evil if its money..is free...for christianity and its rules(also christian private.....education).......

EarthMomma · Mar 15, 2006

Judge not their hearts, but pray for them.

dave007 · Mar 15, 2006

But the truth is, if our leaders acted like Christians our nations would fall shortly. A leader can't be humble, he has to be confident and sometimes aggresive. If someone invades our country he can't give them "the other cheek", he has to fight back... (sp?)

prisonchaplain · Mar 15, 2006

BarryK said:
Do You think that our leaders are bearing the fruit ( joy, peace, love, etc) which indicates a strong walk with Jesus Christ?

Is this an invitation for me to judge the spiritual condition of George Bush? If so, I'll defer to a more qualified Judge (sorry, but I have no god complex).

prisonchaplain · Mar 15, 2006

brent_the_sdsu_showpony said:
our leaders are not like jesus......George bush is evil, how could he start a war and kill many innocent people? is that a christian? i dont know......i think ur right, our leaders are not good.

Your response is childish. If you disagree with the war in Iraq, and do not trust the judgment of our President, then pray that God grant him wisdom, rather than pretending that you know the hearts of men.

TheReasoner · Mar 16, 2006

prisonchaplain said:
Your response is childish. If you disagree with the war in Iraq, and do not trust the judgment of our President, then pray that God grant him wisdom, rather than pretending that you know the hearts of men.

Should we have simply prayed for Hitler? How about Mao? Stalin?
Ofcourse we should have. But that does not mean we should ONLY pray.
What is done by the current US administration shows fruits. And BAD fruit at that. Torture is one of those. The "patriot" act another. The lies surrounding Iraq a third. The lies around Katarina a fourth Tax cuts and extensive focus on the army yet another. There are many reasons to dislike Bush as a president. Wether you love America, or don't.

I shall not say anything about how he is as a person. I do not know him. But president is a job he should never have had.

bliz · Mar 16, 2006

Combatchuc11 said:
Bliz and Greenjeans, do you personally know our leaders? If not, how do you know what they are and are not doing? The media? I wouldn't recommend the media as a reliable source of information. Sure, I bet we could all think of examples of individuals in politics that we could say "are not bearing fruit" however, each of you stated an entire group of people. Doesn't that seem that an a little judgemental? To answer the question, no, I don't see them "bearing fruit" however, I don't see anyone on these boards bearing fruit because I don't see a single person in real life.

Do I know our leaders personally? No. Do I need to in order to form an opinion of what they do and say publically? No. Your life, my life - pretty much out of the public spotlight. The lives of our leaders - pretty much in the spotlight full time. Public officials public lives are their real lives, just as what you and I do in our jobs is a reflection of who we really are and is no less real than what we do at home.

While all media is biased, it's pretty hard for that bias to have any effect when they broadcast or print entire speeches verbatim and when the record of actions and votes is public. We are called upon as Christian to be discerning; we are told to flee evil. In order to do those things, we must make determinations or, judgements, if you prefer.

Forming opinions about our leaders does not preclude praying for them as the Bible commands, in fact, it often encourages much more prayer.

CaseyRacquel · Mar 16, 2006

Combatchuc11 said:
Bliz and Greenjeans, do you personally know our leaders? If not, how do you know what they are and are not doing? The media? I wouldn't recommend the media as a reliable source of information. Sure, I bet we could all think of examples of individuals in politics that we could say "are not bearing fruit" however, each of you stated an entire group of people. Doesn't that seem that an a little judgemental? To answer the question, no, I don't see them "bearing fruit" however, I don't see anyone on these boards bearing fruit because I don't see a single person in real life.

AMEN

prisonchaplain · Mar 18, 2006

faith guardian said:
Should we have simply prayed for Hitler? How about Mao? Stalin?

You're comparing Bush to Hitler, who attempted genocide on God's chosen people, and led 12 million to there deaths with policies of racism, revenge, and hate? With Mao and Stalin, who probably saw the deaths of over 50 million of their own people? You're absurd, on the face of it.

Okay, you're perhaps a Democrat. You don't like Bush. So, he's the leader of the strongest, most well-armed nation on earth. He has his finger on the button. You'd best be praying for God to grant him wisdom--especially since you don't trust him.

Of course we should have.

Then what's your beef? That was my point--my only point.

But that does not mean we should ONLY pray.
What is done by the current US administration shows fruits. And BAD fruit at that. Torture is one of those. The "patriot" act another. The lies surrounding Iraq a third. The lies around Katarina a fourth Tax cuts and extensive focus on the army yet another. There are many reasons to dislike Bush as a president. Wether you love America, or don't.

So? What's your point? You agree we should pray for Bush. That was the point of the post. You can campaign against him, or his party, or his policies all you want. But, yes, let us be biblical, and pray for our leaders.

I shall not say anything about how he is as a person. I do not know him. But president is a job he should never have had.

Irrelevent. You're about two years too late with this post.

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