• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

You don't know something just because you intuit that something is on your brain

Gottservant

God loves your words, may men love them also
Site Supporter
Aug 3, 2006
11,383
704
46
✟276,687.00
Faith
Messianic
Hi there,

Well, I've been debating Evolutionists (as some of you might even be aware, just check out the Physical and Life Sciences forum) and I've run into a bit of a problem that there is no clear answer to. You see, certain individuals who believe Evolution believe that somehow the "theory" which is based on time, is able to contradict something about time, that only time determines, ie. how great something is. The problem is that as far as I can tell, these people (let's just amalgamate them for a second yes?) believe that they "know" something on the basis of what they intuit their mind is capable of believing, but doesn't actually (believe). In other words, they "believe" from a position of ignorance, because they haven't actually made the transition from knowledge to understanding that knowledge requires to be more than dead.

When I was at uni I encountered this problem and I actually invented a term to highlight that there is more to know "norscomni" from the latin for know and everything, because when you know in principle, for even a moment, you have for a moment known everything. The point of this, is to stretch beyond what you merely intuit in relation to what you believe. The reason I came up with this word - which basically means "know that you know, without referring to yourself" - is that what you know is actually a hard problem, but also a minimum for discussing anything meaningfully.

Now I know what you are thinking, you are thinking "how are you going to go back to discussing Evolution if people don't even know that?" well I'm wondering that too. It seems there is more at work than simply persuading people that knowledge is more or less reasonable, more or less practical or impractical. Philosophy has its limits, I think we all know that, but what do you do when you discuss something that has even greater limits and yet no one even does the basic homework of making sure they are not just intuiting something that exists only in their imagination?

You might want to debate Evolution in this thread, but that's not what this is about. If you are an Evolutionist and you know what I'm talking about, you might want to contribute along the lines of the nature of different limitations, given by different contexts like Evolution and Philosophy. If you are not an Evolutionists but you're an atheist or something, you might want to discuss from personal experience in relation to the limitations you've placed on yourself, or what your sense of the power of intuition is, in relation to knowlege. From my experience, intuition never discerns more than you have a conscience to persist at, so for example if you believe time continues forever you will always be able to intuit something useful as long as you give more time. What's concerning I think, is the idea that this is ultimately just for selfish reasons, but I may need to go into that in another thread.

Thoughts?:pray:
 

PsychoSarah

Chaotic Neutral
Jan 13, 2014
20,522
2,609
✟102,963.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
Having so many transition fossils for human evolution that I could make a flip book from an early mammal all the way to modern humans with so few missing that it would seemlessly flow doesn't make much sense if evolution doesn't occur. And we know that even if there were some limitations on evolution as so many creationists like to claim, the variability of dogs shows that it wouldn't be significant enough not to make humans related to other apes such as chimps.
 
Upvote 0

Gottservant

God loves your words, may men love them also
Site Supporter
Aug 3, 2006
11,383
704
46
✟276,687.00
Faith
Messianic
Having so many [...] as chimps.

Ok, I will take that as a comment since it is not the point of this thread (but it is sort of the problem).

The point of this thread is believing you know something simply because you have for a moment intuited it.
 
Upvote 0

PsychoSarah

Chaotic Neutral
Jan 13, 2014
20,522
2,609
✟102,963.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
Ok, I will take that as a comment since it is not the point of this thread (but it is sort of the problem).

The point of this thread is believing you know something simply because you have for a moment intuited it.

How are you not doing exactly that with your belief in god?
 
Upvote 0

Gottservant

God loves your words, may men love them also
Site Supporter
Aug 3, 2006
11,383
704
46
✟276,687.00
Faith
Messianic
Aha!

You think I am merely intuiting it...

In reality I add observational evidence to my intuition and my intuition is confirmed, that's different.

If I just assumed my intuition was correct, all I would do would be expect people to believe that I was the God there was (by taking credit for it).
 
Upvote 0

PsychoSarah

Chaotic Neutral
Jan 13, 2014
20,522
2,609
✟102,963.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
Aha!

You think I am merely intuiting it...

In reality I add observational evidence to my intuition and my intuition is confirmed, that's different.

If I just assumed my intuition was correct, all I would do would be expect people to believe that I was the God there was (by taking credit for it).

Then why can you not understand that other people are making observations, not just using intuition?
 
Upvote 0

Gottservant

God loves your words, may men love them also
Site Supporter
Aug 3, 2006
11,383
704
46
✟276,687.00
Faith
Messianic
Then why can you not understand that other people are making observations, not just using intuition?

I cannot understand, because even what I do understand and explain and extend to others to believe, they do not understand.

And when I say, you have no choice but to understand at some point, they continue to say they do not understand.

If you do not understand that you must either understand or later choose to try to understand, it means you never believed understanding was possible.

That is only possible if your knowledge is based on intuition and not on reliable faith.
 
Upvote 0

PsychoSarah

Chaotic Neutral
Jan 13, 2014
20,522
2,609
✟102,963.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
I cannot understand, because even what I do understand and explain and extend to others to believe, they do not understand.

And when I say, you have no choice but to understand at some point, they continue to say they do not understand.

If you do not understand that you must either understand or later choose to try to understand, it means you never believed understanding was possible.

That is only possible if your knowledge is based on intuition and not on reliable faith.

To be fair, you talk in riddles all the time. You don't make being understood easy for the people who read your posts. Are you capable of talking as directly as I do?
 
Upvote 0

PsychoSarah

Chaotic Neutral
Jan 13, 2014
20,522
2,609
✟102,963.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
If you were worthy and you asked, I would explain it to you.

But since you do not ask, I speak in riddles.

Should I speak plainly as if I am honoured, when clearly I am not?

I would rather you spoke in a more direct manner; I don't know how difficult it is for other people to understand you, but I have the extra handicap of being autistic. Subtly is really hard for me to interpret and understand, and most of it slips by as if it doesn't exist.
 
Upvote 0

variant

Happy Cat
Jun 14, 2005
23,790
6,591
✟315,332.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Single
Hi there,

Well, I've been debating Evolutionists (as some of you might even be aware, just check out the Physical and Life Sciences forum) and I've run into a bit of a problem that there is no clear answer to. You see, certain individuals who believe Evolution believe that somehow the "theory" which is based on time, is able to contradict something about time, that only time determines, ie. how great something is. The problem is that as far as I can tell, these people (let's just amalgamate them for a second yes?) believe that they "know" something on the basis of what they intuit their mind is capable of believing, but doesn't actually (believe). In other words, they "believe" from a position of ignorance, because they haven't actually made the transition from knowledge to understanding that knowledge requires to be more than dead.

We believe the theory of evolution is true because it makes true predictions about the state of the world that we can observe in a way that could be false if the theory were not sound.

This is not based upon intuition this is how evidence works.
 
Upvote 0

Gottservant

God loves your words, may men love them also
Site Supporter
Aug 3, 2006
11,383
704
46
✟276,687.00
Faith
Messianic
We believe the theory of evolution is true because it makes true predictions about the state of the world that we can observe in a way that could be false if the theory were not sound.

This is not based upon intuition this is how evidence works.

Yes, but if it was knowledge that was based on more than intuition, it would have a lasting effect on how decisions are made.

As yet, there is no evidence to suggest Evolution changes a single thing.
 
Upvote 0

variant

Happy Cat
Jun 14, 2005
23,790
6,591
✟315,332.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Single
Yes, but if it was knowledge that was based on more than intuition, it would have a lasting effect on how decisions are made.

As yet, there is no evidence to suggest Evolution changes a single thing.

Evolution has been the guiding principle of biology for over a century.
 
Upvote 0

Gottservant

God loves your words, may men love them also
Site Supporter
Aug 3, 2006
11,383
704
46
✟276,687.00
Faith
Messianic
What on earth would that have to do with what I said?

That is an example of a magnitude.

It is a magnitude of decision making brought about by a choice.

If you really got a choice out of Evolution, you would think you could say your magnitude will be at least as comparable by a millennia or so.

Instead you question me as if nothing I say even came close to making sense.
 
Upvote 0