"You didn't build that ... "

Dieselman · Jul 18, 2012

Perhaps the socialist-in-chief forgets that before government did anything, it had to first take money from those who had earned it. In other words, if there were no businesses hiring people to pay taxes, there could be no roads. The government didn't fund those roads. The government does not GENERATE income. The roads were paid for by TAXPAYERS! Since the rich pay more in taxes, it's quite obvious that the RICH paid for most of the infrastructure in this country. The poor didn't pay for it. They didn't have any money.

Dieselman · Jul 18, 2012

SearchingStudent said:
Go in peace...I shake the dust of this display of selfishness and arrogance off my feet.

If you have dust in your computer, perhaps you should clean it.

Yarddog · Jul 19, 2012

IisJustMe said:
And as I told Searching, that's nonsense. The "great teacher" or whoever can't take credit for your success, as Odumba is attempting to do here in robbing the entrepreneur of his/her uniqueness.

How? He gives credit for these people "but" his point is that these people were not alone in their search for uniqueness. They had parents, teachers, friends, partners, employees, etc... who were there in some fashion. He says "we succeed because of our individual initiative". This one phrase shows how incorrect your interpretation of the speech is.

You take one small piece, towards the end, of the speech and twist it around so that it has nothing in common with the theme of the speech.

IisJustMe said:
Most major business in this country were built long before there was an Internet, and many were built before there were roads.

Well duh.We all know that but that was not Obama's point. He used these things to illustrate his point that we must work together in order to rebuild this country.

Regardless of which party wins the election, they cannot fix this country on their own.

IisJustMe said:
For example, the railroads were built by the steel companies,

Wrong, but thanks for providing an example.

The railroads were built by a combination private enterprise being helped "big time" by the government. It could not be done by individuals.

The prime source of engineers came from the Army Corps of Engineers. The Army was a prime source for the officials on most railroads. The Corps surveyed, selected and cleared the right of way for the railroads. It took 1000's of men, working together to build the railroads. It took industries, such as the steel and coal industries and many others to make the trains go.

Obama's point was that we don't do things on our own. Even you should admit that God has played a part in making you what you are.

Lovely Lane · Jul 19, 2012

Dieselman said:
If not for the automobile, there would be no highways.
If not for interchangeable parts and mass production, we would still be an agrarian society.
It was mechanized harvesting that ended slavery as much as anything else.
The desire for profit has given us every invention.
The desire for personal recognition and reward has given us nearly every scientific breakthrough or discovery.
The desire for profit has given us affordable personal computers and an almost limitless access to information.
What teacher would still teach if they never made more than minimum wage?
What fireman would run into burning buildings if he could make more money dishing out ice cream?
This isn't saying these people don't have a desire to help people, but the primary goal of any man is to provide a better life for their families. Liberals are effeminate; they want to be be cared for rather than to care for others.

Barack Obama has no clue about American business. He was the product of a liberal mother and a communist father; raised in a socialist country and mentored in the US by radicals who hated this country. He has never held a job in the private sector, and yet has become rich by sucking off the weath of others. He is an unprincipled liar who hates America and everything it stands for; just like his father did before him.

Most millionaires in America are self made. They made money through hard work and the desire to better themselves. If Americans really knew understood how much damage socialists have done to this nation in the last 30 years, there would be a national outrage.

I do hope that outrage comes soon.

self-made millionaires like Romney?
To those entrepreneurs who started with little to nothing and built a home-grown business (American jobs/products), the majority of Americans admire such a person.
But to those international businessman here in US who out-source jobs (production of product and or financial instrument) then sell it in US at premium prices, I think today most citizens would disapprove.

Romney started out wealthy and ended up wealthier as most of his peers. Old money families are still alive today. But to the new millionaires from the banking/financial services who lie, cheat, manipulate, even promote rate fixing and even terrorism, are definitely no hero's of mine.

Look at HSBC bank and Barclays and J.P Morgan/Chase. They are under investigation (long over do), of all sorts of fraud, rate fixing, illegal funneling of monies, etc. Many Americans who are in executive positions are multimillionaires, and I and many others think that these people do not deserve their wealth.

From the criminal world, there are many millionaires, do they deserve their wealth? Most folks would say no.

White-collar criminals are no different than Drug dealers when it comes to illicit gains. And to those who use the laws (of which they manipulated through lobbyists) such as Hedge managers and Equity investors/Capital management stack the field in their favor (lobbyist), cut and gut American companies, out-source jobs, create off-shore tax shelters, and reap in billions. This is not the American Dream in building American products & services in the homeland and placing the goods and services on the international market for fair competition. So, to me, many American New millionaires of the last 15 years did not deserve their wealth.

When we take what Obama conveyed out of context we can distort, bend and twist it every way ugly, can't we?

The president’s argument, which is similar to one made by Massachusetts Senate candidate Elizabeth Warren, revolves around the idea that business people need the infrastructure provided by the government in order to succeed.
Here’s the full context of what he said:
We’ve already made a trillion dollars’ worth of cuts. We can make some more cuts in programs that don’t work, and make government work more efficiently…We can make another trillion or trillion-two, and what we then do is ask for the wealthy to pay a little bit more …
There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me, because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t -look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something – there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.
If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business. you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.
The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don’t do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.
So we say to ourselves, ever since the founding of this country, you know what, there are some things we do better together. That’s how we funded the GI Bill. That’s how we created the middle class. That’s how we built the Golden Gate Bridge or the Hoover Dam. That’s how we invented the Internet. That’s how we sent a man to the moon. We rise or fall together as one nation and as one people, and that’s the reason I’m running for president – because I still believe in that idea. You’re not on your own, we’re in this together.”

p.s... the conservatives believe in "self", no credit given to God or to the working-class who made entrepreneurship possible in America. The ME! ME! ME! crowd of GOP. (catchy slogan)

Rion · Jul 19, 2012

freezerman2000 said:
As a former business man, I can assure you that without MY hard work and business savvy, my shop wouldn't have lasted as long as it did.I had help with inventory(it was a consignment shop), but the everyday decisions and stocking were on me.
If I had hired help, they would have worked according to MY policies..I would have paid them for the work they would have done, out of the money that was taken in from the items sold that were entrusted to ME and ME ALONE (I'm the only one who could sign contracts with my con-signers)...
I built that business from the ground up..no one else did.
The only reason I am no longer in business is the landlord doubled the rent, in effect, putting me out of business.
Barry put his foot in his mouth!

Lovely Lane · Jul 19, 2012

Dieselman said:
Perhaps the socialist-in-chief forgets that before government did anything, it had to first take money from those who had earned it. In other words, if there were no businesses hiring people to pay taxes, there could be no roads. The government didn't fund those roads. The government does not GENERATE income. The roads were paid for by TAXPAYERS! Since the rich pay more in taxes, it's quite obvious that the RICH paid for most of the infrastructure in this country. The poor didn't pay for it. They didn't have any money.

Yes, some government agencies do generate profits, and income for their employees. Governments raise revenue through taxes, that isn't surprising to you is it?
If government didn't exist, there would be little to no businesses, be a world of anarchy; governed by the powerful.
The rich do not pay a fair-share in taxes, the % just don't equal to what middle-class % is. The poor paid more one could argue, for 10% of their income is more important to them than what 10% is to the Romney's.
I say tax the wealthy, make 'em pay fair-share, and we will beginning 2013.

Lovely Lane · Jul 19, 2012

freezerman2000 said:
As a former business man, I can assure you that without MY hard work and business savvy, my shop wouldn't have lasted as long as it did.I had help with inventory(it was a consignment shop), but the everyday decisions and stocking were on me.
If I had hired help, they would have worked according to MY policies..I would have paid them for the work they would have done, out of the money that was taken in from the items sold that were entrusted to ME and ME ALONE (I'm the only one who could sign contracts with my con-signers)...
I built that business from the ground up..no one else did.
The only reason I am no longer in business is the landlord doubled the rent, in effect, putting me out of business.
Barry put his foot in his mouth!

I can see why you are no longer in business, can't you? The rent has little to do with it.

Yarddog · Jul 19, 2012

freezerman2000 said:
As a former business man, I can assure you that without MY hard work and business savvy, my shop wouldn't have lasted as long as it did.

I certainly don't want to take anything away from your hard work but Obama isn't either. He applauds what small businessmen have done through hard work and initiative but his point was that we don't do it alone. You and every businessman has had help in many ways.

You most likely went to college, so your teachers and professors have help to create your thinking process. Your parents may have instilled a strong work ethic which helped you to succeed. You most likely got a loan from a bank or someone who helped to finance your initiative. You probably hired workers who helped.

Obama's point was that we do not build things by ourselves. We get help from others along the way. In the same way, this country needs rebuilding and we need to do it together.

freezerman2000 said:
Barry put his foot in his mouth!

No, the people who twisted his words into something that they were not sinned before God by bearing false witness against the President.

Thekla · Jul 20, 2012

Hmmm ... as a mom, I think IU rate for the 9/10 months of pregnancy, with Step-down Unit rates for 0-6 months, Surgical Suite rates for 6 months through say ... a year. Not to exclude ongoing room, board, Therapy (physical and emotional) rates --

for all who are truly 'self-made', you really should be consistent and reimburse your mother and parents.

And consider your taxes as a repayment for use of school system, etc. that you used for "free" for so long.

Yarddog · Jul 20, 2012

Thekla said:
And consider your taxes as a repayment for use of school system, etc. that you used for "free" for so long.

If they can't figure this out maybe they didn't use those schools for what they are there for. Education.

ameriswede · Jul 20, 2012

1. We all know what Obama was saying. Even persons such as yourself. You fail the moral character test.
2. Take a break from all the anti Obama ads you expose yourself to, in order to spend 30 seconds watching the response ad that was put up by his campaign. Think it is entitled something like "Mitt Romney: He will say anything to get elected". You know, that moral character stuff.
3. I have to admit I am really tired of hearing "socialist" being used in such a derogatory fashion. I have been living in Sweden for over 20 years, a market economy that is capitalized on in order to provide support to a humane social welfare system. (Republicans call Sweden that ugly word - socialist!) (quality universal health care for everyone, fully financed higher education, unemployment benefits you can live on, 6 weeks of vacation, 18 months maternal leave...yeah the list goes on. Please stop using the word "socialist" in such a negative way. You really have no idea what you are talking about.

ameriswede · Jul 20, 2012

I live in what you would call a "socialist" country. Just want to clue you in a bit on what that actually means.

For our family it means or has meant the following:
1. My wife was at home for 18 months on maternal leave when each of our two children were born. She received 80% of her salary and her job was secure.
2. Our children had access to some of the best child care in the world at a 5th of the actual cost.
3. Our entire family has free access to quality health care.
4. Our son is pursuing a five years Masters Degree in Civil Engineering at no cost...ZERO. He is actually given about $400 a month to help with living expenses while he is studying...from the government.
5. If you are sick or umemployed you are entitled to benefits you can survive on. Those these benefits have been cut back some in recent years.
6. By law, everyone gets 5 weeks of paid vacation. I have 6 and a half weeks now as I am over 50 years old.
7. Generally speaking...everything is of quality...infrastructure, housing, mass transportation system, everything.

I spent the first 32 years of my life in USA, which I would say is a system built on raw capitalism. I have lived the last 22 years of my life in a country that the American Right calls "socialist", using the term in a deragatory and demeaning way.

Let me just suggest that you are rather uninformed or even misinformed. USA has some things it can learn in way of becoming a better nation. The capitalism that is now practiced and now rules in USA, is a raw capitalism...that is becoming harder and harder for some people to swallow.

As an American, I have to tell you...somethings are actually greener on this side of the fence.

Thekla · Jul 20, 2012

ameriswede said:
I live in what you would call a "socialist" country. Just want to clue you in a bit on what that actually means.

For our family it means or has meant the following:
1. My wife was at home for 18 months on maternal leave when each of our two children were born. She received 80% of her salary and her job was secure.
2. Our children had access to some of the best child care in the world at a 5th of the actual cost.
3. Our entire family has free access to quality health care.
4. Our son is pursuing a five years Masters Degree in Civil Engineering at no cost...ZERO. He is actually given about $400 a month to help with living expenses while he is studying...from the government.
5. If you are sick or umemployed you are entitled to benefits you can survive on. Those these benefits have been cut back some in recent years.
6. By law, everyone gets 5 weeks of paid vacation. I have 6 and a half weeks now as I am over 50 years old.
7. Generally speaking...everything is of quality...infrastructure, housing, mass transportation system, everything.

I spent the first 32 years of my life in USA, which I would say is a system built on raw capitalism. I have lived the last 22 years of my life in a country that the American Right calls "socialist", using the term in a deragatory and demeaning way.

Let me just suggest that you are rather uninformed or even misinformed. USA has some things it can learn in way of becoming a better nation. The capitalism that is now practiced and now rules in USA, is a raw capitalism...that is becoming harder and harder for some people to swallow.

As an American, I have to tell you...somethings are actually greener on this side of the fence.

Interestingly, the Scandinavian countries have better social mobility rates than the US - and healthier economies. Germany, the "powerhouse economy" of Europe, is also (compared to the US) "socialist".

The form of Capitalism we have in the US seems to me to be badly distorted; the reign of the financial sector, its longstanding finagling and its ability to blow-up the economy (resulting in untold misery throughout the world) is a sufficient example ...

IisJustMe · Jul 20, 2012

For those of you who are trying to defend these indefensible remarks by your socialist president, your problem is that no one in his right mind is going to believe that everyone a successful person has ever known, taken advice from, talked to about concepts and ideas, has any right to claim any part in that success. The Empty Suit has sucked you into his misguided and yet intentional pull of the US into socialism. This "narrative" must be the one he has settled on to replace the one he says he didn't have in the last three and a half years.

Suits me just fine. America will not elect an admitted socialist, and Empty Suit is quickly identifying himself as just that.

Be prepared, Democrats, liberals and socialists, to anguish as you watch Mitt Romney sworn in on January 20.

ameriswede · Jul 20, 2012

At first I found the arrogance that some Americans can portray, despite their ignorance, as somewhat amusing. I am no longer amused. Instead I find myself saddened and disheartened. Their is a lot of power and money behind the propaganda machines that thrust foward the ideologies of both the right and left wing of American politics. I expose myself to mainstream media and Huffington post and if I understand things correctly, get real exposure to "the left" from that perspective. I frequent Fox News regularly. I find it unsettling to see how Fox News seems to be dedicated to presenting Obama and his politics in a negative light. Both sides are subjective in a way that is scary. Journalism is supposed to be objective. Propaganda machines on both sides. But honestly, it is my opinion that Fox News is not only most flagrant, but also most adept. Unfortunately.

ameriswede · Jul 20, 2012

Please define what you mean by socialism? And please elaborate on what it is in Obamas ideas that are socialistic? And what it is in these ideas that you find so scary?

I live in a country that I have time and time again heard the right wing call a socialist country...and a system in practice...that is to be feared.

I think it is rather obvious to most, at this point, that the raw capitalism exhibited in USA has some very major faults. I see "socialist" countries as those countries that are to a greater or lesser degree, to the left of USA. Every country on earth is to the left of the USA. I would argue that USA has been too far right, for too long. Top 1% of population enjoys 37% of its wealth. Bottom 50% of population scrambles for crumbs sharing a total of 4% of the wealth. It is a no brainer. Obama is not the problem, he is the solution.

Lovely Lane · Jul 20, 2012

American capitalism has a form of corporate welfare. It isn't capitalism at all really. Proof positive was government bailing out Wall St. True followers of capitalism would have let the To-Big-To-Fail corps Fail and new players using entrepreneurial skills to replace the crony capitalist. And still, government provides major tax breaks and loopholes, and will even send in troops to protect big corp. interest and secure oil fields and other natural resources to be exploited.

The Con's fear a so-called New World Order, which is a world dominated by international cronyism. This is what they support and defend here in the US, and yet, they call to arms when they see a glimpse of it, revealed through it's failures and disasters. They hold to the ideal of the days of old and wear blinders to what is really taking place today and blame it on the liberal and call it socialism.

Ignorance isn't bliss when human suffering is caused by fear-mongers clad in corporate-fascist garb demeaning socialist safety nets of the citizens.

ameriswede · Jul 20, 2012

Government did not decide to bail out Wall Street, or the Banks. It is Wall Street and the Banks that saw to it that the government served their capitalistic purpose.

IisJustMe · Jul 20, 2012

ameriswede said:
At first I found the arrogance that some Americans can portray, despite their ignorance, as somewhat amusing. I am no longer amused. Instead I find myself saddened and disheartened. Their is a lot of power and money behind the propaganda machines that thrust foward the ideologies of both the right and left wing of American politics. I expose myself to mainstream media and Huffington post and if I understand things correctly, get real exposure to "the left" from that perspective. I frequent Fox News regularly. I find it unsettling to see how Fox News seems to be dedicated to presenting Obama and his politics in a negative light. Both sides are subjective in a way that is scary. Journalism is supposed to be objective. Propaganda machines on both sides. But honestly, it is my opinion that Fox News is not only most flagrant, but also most adept. Unfortunately.

I reality, Fox News is centrist, and regularly presents conservatives in a bad light as well (but liberals wouldn't admit that if their hair was on fire).

Thekla · Jul 20, 2012

IisJustMe said:
For those of you who are trying to defend these indefensible remarks by your socialist president, your problem is that no one in his right mind is going to believe that everyone a successful person has ever known, taken advice from, talked to about concepts and ideas, has any right to claim any part in that success. The Empty Suit has sucked you into his misguided and yet intentional pull of the US into socialism. This "narrative" must be the one he has settled on to replace the one he says he didn't have in the last three and a half years.

Suits me just fine. America will not elect an admitted socialist, and Empty Suit is quickly identifying himself as just that.

Be prepared, Democrats, liberals and socialists, to anguish as you watch Mitt Romney sworn in on January 20.

I didn't vote for Obama, don't intend to - but clearly, Romney misquoted him
(or distorted what he said).

Imo, they're similar - we no longer have a real democracy, and the form of capitalism we have is actually 'corporatism'. Both do and will favor Wall Street and financialization - which is about short term profit, not investment and value creation (which tends to focus on long-term goals).

In this system, the biggest purse wins regardless of value -- and the biggest purse has been created by LIBOR rigging, LBO (not the same as true venture capitalism), Bond-rate rigging (recent lawsuit, won, evidencing widespread collusion and fraud among financial institutions), an unregulated derivates market (estimated to be twice the annual global GDP), rumbles that are gaining in credibility that Lehman's default was actually 'designed/forced' by another major financial institution (strategically withholding return of funds, likely led to profits based on CDSs), outright fraud (MF Global, for example), manipulated (fraudulant) ratings by the Credit Rating agencies, a stock market that is 75% robo-trading (and the bigger the pockets to geographically position trading servers, the higher the win), and a double standard (big crime and fraud walks, little crime lands you in a for-profit prison).

Is the above "capitalism" ? Cause that's what we've got.

As for your use of the term "socialism", it would help if you would define or describe what you mean; the term is often used for a number of different things.

"You didn't build that ... "

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