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Yet Again, At Planet Fitness...

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rjs330

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Personal.privacy? That's funny when all the women want is personal privacy and the left is hell bent on taking it away from them. And if this was such a private matter why are they demanding to do into spaces where they know is going to create an issue?

I'm wondering if you are spending far too much time on these forums. You should spend more time elsewhere and you'll discover there are a LOT of people out there who are not Christians, but are atheists, agnostics, gay, doctors, therapists, biologists, endocrinologists etc who have nothing to do with Christianity or even conservatism who are opposed to this.

As I have proven to you, Conservatives don't really care if a business creates individual bathrooms or individual locker rooms/shower spaces. You won't find any of us marching in front of a business who decides to get rid of mens and women's rooms and instead builds individual bathrooms.

And conservative don't oppose change. You do know that change isn't always for the best right? After all Hitler brought change. Change can actually be bad for society or for a group of people. Change can be good as well. There is change we support and change we don't. You have to prove to us that this change is good for society and good for women. And I'm not just speaking about about individual bathrooms.
 
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rjs330

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When did I ever say that? I said there would be no need for a men's or women's restroom if they made all of the stalls private
Is that what trans people are clamoring for? When's the last time you heard a man who claims to be a woman demand that he should have his own bathroom? Or even demanding that everyone have their own bathroom and mini locker room with shower?
There seems to be a problem with conservatives groaning about who's a man and who's a women and how do we separate them effectively but there is no room in the conservative mind for private stalls across the board.
Literally no one has said that. In fact you know that your stalls comment isn't the right wings position. In fact when said that we don't care if a business wants to put in those stalls they can and we're okay with that you said it was a right wing view. So you know good and well that there is plenty of room for those private stalls.

It is actually the left who is groaning about who a man or a woman is. We know what one is and can tell you. It's the left that can't seem to figure it out. Apparently it's some amorphous thing that no one can really say and there is no way to prove it one way or another. No wonder you can't figure out how to separate them. If you don't know what one is that makes perfect sense. But we do know and know exactly how to separate them.
What's wrong with that other than the need to enforce Christian values on the general public. It's more about making laws based on Christianity than providing privacy for everyone.
Since when did separating men and women in their private spaces for bathrooms and showers etc become only a Christian value?
 
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BPPLEE

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Evidently you don’t read or can’t comprehend what other people post, you just spew left wing rhetoric and accuse others of doing what you are actually doing yourself.
 
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rjs330

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Oh and what your evidence for only a subset want men out of women's locker rooms? In other words if a woman wants a man out of their private spaces they are a radical feminist. What exactly is a radical feminist to you? You think there is something wrong with radical feminists?

Are only women's groups allowed to have an opinion? What about individual women who aren't part of a group? All four of my daughters and my wife are against it. None of them are radical feminists.

All the women at my work are against it and I think they'd be insulted if you called them all radical feminists. None of them are Christians. And not all my daughters are conservatives.

MSN

Are all those women radical feminists?

If it happened to my granddaughter, I would be upset for sure," said Santee resident Paula Dwyer.

"Children and women have rights to privacy," added Santee resident Sheri Miles. "We shouldn't be invaded when we are in the bathroom or the locker room or God help us, the shower. It's wrong!"


Radical feminists again?

‘Trans’ Man Competed Against Girls, Used Women’s Locker Room...and That's Not Even the Worst Part

I suppose all those girls and their mothers are all radical feminists too?

Trans student exposed girls to male genitalia in school locker room, legal group claims

Radical feminists?

But none of these girls count? There are a LOT of women who are opposed to this. They aren't members of some women's organizations. They are radical feminists, they aren't right right Christians, they are just women. Period. And for you to ignore them is nothing more then establishing your patriarchal "I know what's best for women" rhetoric.
 
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Belk

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Hey look! Actual evidence. Well done I knew you could do it. In answer to your question yes they count. Their voices should be heard. Just like the people on the other side of the debate.

Oh. And I acknowledge there are more then just radical feminists view on the topic. To be clear I am not sure I buy that there are a lot of men who are simply trying to "Protect women" but it is a valid point of view so you were correct on that.
 
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rjs330

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If you knew I could do it then you knew it existed. So it appears to be that you just wanted me to waste my time. Riley Gaines said in one of her interviews that she was frustrated because she and other women were speaking out and no one was helping them. Well that's men are helping. She didn't say no other women where helping.

You don't have to buy anything. Believe us or don't. That's a choice. We haven't said or done anything on this issue to make you question our motives. One thing I've learned though after our little exercise. I won't be doing any more "research" for you because you already know. You just want me to waste my time. Not going to do it again.
 
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Ana the Ist

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Ok? I'm sorry but what do video games have to do with civil rights?

It's not important.



Ok...what right is being violated here?

Have people's rights really been tampered with other than the rights of Judeo-Christian white maleswho are year by year being stripped of their rights to discriminate against people that don't agree with their racist/sexist/homophobic ideology?

I don't see what this has to do with my post.


What is the rest of it? See, this right-wing stance makes it uncomfortable for them to accept gays and gender-benders' rights to privacy.

The rest of it would be pronouns, prisons, sports, childhood healthcare, education, etc.

You don't really have any right to privacy....apart from a right to unwarranted publicity.


Yeah, that's how it works in a democracy.

What you claim to be a special privilege, I say is observing American citizen's civil rights.

Ok....what rights?


Is eliminating white-only water fountains giving people "special privileges."

No...but you aren't eliminating white only water fountains. You're letting men into women's restrooms.

Hate gays and trans people all you want but according to Federal law, you can't discriminate against them.
I don't think there's any federal law protecting trans people.

An addition to the civil rights amendment was added by Biden but that's not a valid way to change an amendment. That's why so many states are able to write these laws about education, restrooms, sports, I think a state even recently passed a law against "gender affirming care". They can do this...because Biden cannot unilaterally decide to alter an amendment.



It wasn't as traumatic as just uncomfortable.

Ok.


Again, it's not a special privilege, it's the right to privacy protected by the Constitution.

From unwarranted publicity. You don't really have a right to privacy in public.



Gay marriage is one thing. Excluding gays and trans people from their ability to defend their civil rights in another

You haven't brought up any civil rights. You keep mentioning privacy, but public restrooms are public.



Well, the leaders in the field of mental health have decided that the desire of one to change their gender is a diagnosable condition and not a fashion statement.

Very very recently some things have come out about those leaders....

1. They're frauds. In private conversations, they've admitted to not really knowing what they're doing and have put children at risk.

2. They've permanently damaged children. The first real long term, large scale, study on puberty blockers shows that children taking them have underdeveloped genitalia, and a high percentage of boys are effectively sterilized.

3. A large scale review of all the research used by these medical leaders concluded in England. It shows (like the Swedish meta-study did) that the research is low quality garbage and far below the standards of healthcare for children.

Essentially, everyone opposing this stuff was correct (even the Christians opposing it for religious or bigoted reasons) and all the people supporting it...have been supporting the medical experimentation on children that's caused lifelong damage (you).

Just thought you should know this if you aren't up to speed on recent developments on the issue. You aren’t some moral crusader fighting for rights....you've enabled mentally ill people to damage children for life.

You remember JK Rowling? Remember how they claimed that she was transphobic and hateful towards trans people? Now they're asking her if she would forgive the Harry Potter actors if they apologized to her. Turns out she was right all along. In fact, there's multiple doctors and activists who lost their jobs over this now being praised as heros for their bravery for fighting for children at great personal cost. Smart people lost their jobs for speaking out against this...

It may take weeks or months for this to trickle down to your area....but don't be surprised if at the very least, puberty blockers, HRT, or even gender affirming care gets banned for harming many many children. That's part of what you're supporting here....harming children.

That's what makes it hard to understand how someone who has no interest in religion could be so brainwashed into pushing Christian morality on those who are fighting for secular rights.

Oh that's easy...

1. I'm educated and can read a study well enough to understand it's flaws. I've known the research on this stuff is quackery for awhile now.

2. I don't see any rights being violated. Trans people have restrooms and showers they can use....same as me and you....they simply aren't allowed to violate women's spaces for reasons like the one in the OP.

3. The methods of trans activists are reprehensible. They lie to people like you, tell people lies like trans people are being murdered or committing suicide as children at astounding rates. They infringe upon the rights of others without any regard for the damage done. There's nothing good about them.



I refuse to buy into the whole oppression of the white man's conservative lie.

No kidding. You support discrimination. I can show you DEI experts saying this....I can show you white men winning discrimination lawsuits after being fired by their employers after they hired a DEI racist. I can point out the examples of racism from this administration. I can cite studies done showing that hiring managers and HR people admit they've been told to discriminate against white men.

You're in full blown denial because you support racial discrimination....and that clashes with your feelings of moral righteousness that you get by supporting mentally ill trans people.


White men

Do you think it's acceptable for businesses and schools to deny white men opportunities in favor of racial minorities?


Yes or no?

So do you really believe that a transgender woman would prefer to shower with women that have natural female bodies?

That's what they say.


What discrimination?

See above.

Here's a recent example...


Here's an older example...


Here's an example from this administration...


If you read past the intro, you'll see examples on examples. I understand that every racist thinks their racism towards a group of people is justified for "reasons" from the KKK of the 1800s to today's modern left...but I don't think you have some moral high ground which to judge me from. I'm not denying trans people any rights....and I'm certainly not in favor of racial discrimination against anyone, not just white people.

Don't get me wrong, there are white men who suffer under poverty

There's more whites in poverty than any other racial group....and last I checked, the poorest county in the US was mostly white.
 
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Belk

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I did not know. As I stated I did a search and did not find any data. I think the data you found is vanishingly small but it does exist, as I acknowledged. Not to worry though, I'm sure you will be able to act affronted without any of my input.
 
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rjs330

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Oh that's easy...
What I find is so many on the left thing the only people who oppose this are Christians. Secondly they think the only reason Christians oppose it is because they are Christians. It's like they ignore every single post where we outline specific scientific, philosophical and psychological reasons why we don't support this. Quite frankly it's a bit bigoted. I mean how many of us Christians are pounding the Bibles on this subject and shouting "God says..."? Take a look in this thread. I think a non-believer was the first one to mention something religious and then there was a short discussion on homosexuality. But I don't think one person said anything about Christianity and transgenderism except some unbeliever.

That's the way it always seems to be on this subject. It's like there is something in the liberal brain that says that Christians are the only people who would oppose it and if we do it's only on religious grounds and we have no brain or thought in out head of any other reason whatsoever.

Yet we are the ones saying exactly what you are saying.

Yeah it's easy all right when you really look at it. I never have to quote one single scripture or even mention the word God in this debate. And I don't.
 
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rjs330

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I did not know. As I stated I did a search and did not find any data. I think the data you found is vanishingly small but it does exist, as I acknowledged. Not to worry though, I'm sure you will be able to act affronted without any of my input.
I don't believe you. You said you knew I could do it, prove my point. Do with it what you will. I'm not affronted. I'm just not going to waste my time proving anything to you anymore. You've been on these types of threads many times. If you haven't seen the evidence fro what we've been saying by now, you are never going to. I think its more likely that you ignore it or just want us to waste time. So I've just elected not to waste time on you anymore.
 
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Belk

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I don't believe you. You said you knew I could do it, prove my point.
Nope. I explicitly said "Offer evidence".

Do with it what you will. I'm not affronted.

I guess that leaves us both not believing the other.

Well, thank you for the clarity. That I can appreciate.
 
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Ana the Ist

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I'm sure you recall back when every response to gay marriage was "homophobia".

Then it was Islamophobia.

Then every criticism legitimate or not of Obama was racism.

By the time we got to Trump, everyone capable of making an argument on the left was either gone or drowned out by people who only attack the character of those who disagree with them.
 
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rjs330

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Yes I do. Now it's transphobia. Their so called arguments have grown so thin anymore that claiming a phobia is about all they have anymore.
 
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DaisyDay

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If it's the same guy then he's the first on this planet to claim he trans walk into a women's locker room, expose himself and ask someone to shower with him. I honestly don't think bi-polar works that way.
How exactly do manic episodes work in your experience?
 
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rjs330

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How exactly do manic episodes work in your experience?
I've got a father in law that is bi-polar and have delt with the experiences. I've also delt with it in my employment. If you can provide some evidence that bi-polar causes this sort of thing I'd be happy to look at it. You know people who going through an episode who think they are the opposite sex, claim they are trans and walk into women's locker rooms and parade around naked and ask women to lather up and take a shower with them?

That's the problem with you trans supporters. You will excuse any behaviors of anyone claiming to be trans.
 
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rturner76

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What is any of that going to do about a biological male walking around naked in the women’s locker room?
That is where in modern times (as in not 1955), we have the technology to make locker room shower stalls private with locking doors. That is assuming that people know that it is not mandatory to make shower stalls that can be peeked into. I'm convinced that this is the point where conservatives and progressives part ways. One side believes that we are capable in this day and age to install a private shower stall. The alternative would seem to be that as humans, we are not capable of fabricating a private shower stall. I'm sure that over and over, all around the world, private toilets and showers are being manufactured.

If we want to believe that carpenters are not capable of fabricating a private stall or shower, how would people finance custom kitchens and bathrooms?

What seems (in my opinion) to be the reason people believe this may not be possible is because of their personal opinion that we should not have to offer our children a private place to shower or to use the restroom. This is the definition of conservative:
adjective:
1) averse to change or innovation and holding traditional values.
2) (in a political context) favoring free enterprise, private ownership, and socially traditional ideas
noun:
1) a person who is averse to change and holds traditional values
2) a person favoring free enterprise, private ownership, and socially traditional ideas

These definitions of conservative would seem to indicate that it is not so much that we are not capable of installing private toilets and showers but conservatives simply don't want to be bothered to comply with modern privacy standards. They seem to be more comfortable refusing to provide privacy in order to force people to remain in the closet or be disowned by their families. This would be because of the conservative view that change is bad and allowing anybody to be some.

So my question ends up being, who has given the conservative constituency the right to decide who deserves privacy and who should be required to appear naked in public? Is this the will of the conservative God or is it the will of the secular government that controls our nation? Also, is it legal or even fair to determine the morality of other people's children?
 
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BPPLEE

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You’re clueless as to what I believe and everyone doesn’t fit neatly into your stereotypes. It seems your only knowledge of conservatives is some definition you’ve read and that makes you an expert. in your own mind.
I don’t know of any conservative group or individuals who are opposed to having private bathroom and shower stalls. You don’t understand conservatives at all and I don’t fit into the box that you’re trying to put all conservatives into.
There are no conservative groups in charge of any business“ bathroom, dressing room or shower policy.. There may be people who disagree with these businesses policies and they are stating their opinions as is their right.
They don’t make policies for businesses as far as I know.
You basically have a conspiracy theory that conservatives are dictating who deserves privacy and who is required to appear naked.
Conservatives don’t have this authority or ability.
 
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