YECs - respond please.

[AV1611VET]

Just FYI, I am seriously considering becoming a Young Earth Creationist. I am willing to tell science to take a hike as far as radiometric dating is concerned (since I take their findings on faith anyway). What I need though, is some straight answers on how old you think the universe is, and what specifically you base this age on.

If I do become a YEC, I'll assume the universe is 6100 years old - the same age as the earth.

A related question: When Adam was ten years old, were the trees and rocks and the sun, etc. 10 years old as well?

Please respond --- thank you.

ETA: Feel free to pray for my decision as well --- thanks. I'd love to join your ranks.

 

[MoonLancer]

I think the universe is old, because given our methods on how we calculate the distance of stars and our knowledge of the speed of light, the stars would have to have been created with their light already in motion for the earth to be young.

those are the actions of a deceptive god.

 

[TemperateSeaIsland]

I suspect you already know but just in case you don't there is a origins theology sub forum.

http://christianforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=143

It appears that this is where most YEC hang out and posting a thread here may get you more "hits".

 

[AV1611VET]

I suspect you already know but just in case you don't there is a origins theology sub forum.

http://christianforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=143

It appears that this is where most YEC hang out and posting a thread here may get you more "hits".

Thanks, TSI --- I'll ask to have it moved there.

 

[juvenissun]

Just FYI, I am seriously considering becoming a Young Earth Creationist. I am willing to tell science to take a hike as far as radiometric dating is concerned (since I take their findings on faith anyway). What I need though, is some straight answers on how old you think the universe is, and what specifically you base this age on.

If I do become a YEC, I'll assume the universe is 6100 years old - the same age as the earth.

A related question: When Adam was ten years old, were the trees and rocks and the sun, etc. 10 years old as well?

Please respond --- thank you.

ETA: Feel free to pray for my decision as well --- thanks. I'd love to join your ranks.

Even I call myself a YEC, I don't really care if the earth is 6000 yrs old or 6 million years old. However, I don't think it is 4.5 billion years old because this number is obtained solely based on radiometric dating.

In cosmology, there is an understanding of light speed. And billions of years age (of the universe, not the earth) is suggested again based on that.

Both arguments are scientifically sound, since they are worked out according to scientific principles. Nevertheless, both results are also based on one fundamental assumption, which is that we think we do understand the nature of time. That is the basic reason I don't believe the results of both models are real. As far as I can read, I don't think we know what time really is.

In the Scripture, there are a number of places where strange nature of time are described. Nobody knows what do they mean in term of science. However, I believe they do illustrate very well on one issue which says that the nature of time is beyond our current scientific understanding.

So, I believe the genealogy record in the Bible is good up to the time of Abraham according to what we know about the time unit of an year. The record on the number of years between Abraham and Adam would need further understanding because we do not know how could any one live longer than 150 years. And the Six-Day creation time would be an entirely different matter. So, I don't think the logic behind the 6000-year model is a sound one. Nevertheless, all these age models really do not mean much. Because whatever the number is, we tend to understand the model age based on OUR experience of time, which is limited. Instead, I tends to focus on the understanding of the PROCESSES by which every interested feature was operated.

As a result, YEC or OEC is not an issue. But "evolution" (theistic or atheistic) is process oriented and it IS an issue.

 

[AV1611VET]

In the Scripture, there are a number of places where strange nature of time are described.

In my opinion, time hasn't changed at all. One second today is the same as it was when God created the universe.

 

[Archer93]

In my opinion, time hasn't changed at all. One second today is the same as it was when God created the universe.

On this one I have to agree with AV. If you start from the basic premise that God created the universe, for the nature of time to change you would have to assume that God had to make running repairs to the universe as it went along. Basically, that He got it wrong the first time and had to adjust it to make it work. Or that He decided that it would be fun to mess with humans' minds.
Neither sound like particularly solid ground, theologically.

 

[Cabal]

Just FYI, I am seriously considering becoming a Young Earth Creationist. I am willing to tell science to take a hike as far as radiometric dating is concerned (since I take their findings on faith anyway). What I need though, is some straight answers on how old you think the universe is, and what specifically you base this age on.

If I do become a YEC, I'll assume the universe is 6100 years old - the same age as the earth.

A related question: When Adam was ten years old, were the trees and rocks and the sun, etc. 10 years old as well?

Please respond --- thank you.

ETA: Feel free to pray for my decision as well --- thanks. I'd love to join your ranks.

AV, may I ask why you're considering this? Does this mean you're reconsidering your embedded age idea?

 

[dad]

Just FYI, I am seriously considering becoming a Young Earth Creationist. I am willing to tell science to take a hike as far as radiometric dating is concerned (since I take their findings on faith anyway). What I need though, is some straight answers on how old you think the universe is, and what specifically you base this age on.

I think it is 6000 or some such years old. I base that on the bible, and time since Adam. I consider that he was made in creation week, as well as the universe.

If I do become a YEC, I'll assume the universe is 6100 years old - the same age as the earth.

A related question: When Adam was ten years old, were the trees and rocks and the sun, etc. 10 years old as well?

I would think so. But, since I also think that God planted the garden, and trees could grow in weeks at the time, it is possible that He simply put a lot of seeds there, and they grew up. So plants may not have been old. Rocks would have been made that week. I don't happen to believe, as you may know, that the universe was in the same state, so I do not think the rocks would then have looked old to anyone. The appearance of age, I think could only come with the present state universe, and the decay. If one assumes it was always so, it looks old to them.

Please respond --- thank you.

ETA: Feel free to pray for my decision as well --- thanks. I'd love to join your ranks.

Well, I think we are all in the same ranks, and many great men believed in things like the gap between Adam, and creation, to explain the evidence. We'll find out one day. I think that believing the bible over man, however, is a sign that one is heading the right direction, even if they were somewhat wrong on a few details.

 

[AV1611VET]

Does this mean you're reconsidering your embedded age idea?

Not really.

Right now, I'm Embedded Age, with YEC overtones; but I'm considering becoming YEC, with Embedded Age overtones.

I know that sounds like fancy doubletalk, but I want the focus of what I am to be on this universe being created 6100 years ago.

The biggest difference now is, I'm dropping my faith in science's dogma about rocks and such being billions of years old. I just don't think science deserves the respect I've been giving it in that area.

I know you guys have machines that calculate these ages, but they're built under the assumption of long age in the first place.

So "good bye" to Embedded Age --- "hello" to YEC.

 

[consol]

But, since I also think that God planted the garden, and trees could grow in weeks at the time, it is possible that He simply put a lot of seeds there, and they grew up. So plants may not have been old. Rocks would have been made that week.

I do not normally pander to idiots but in this case I will make an exception,
so you think god planted seeds? where did the seeds come from? (no plants)
if god had to magic the seeds, why not magic the trees?
the only reason I could think why a god would magic seeds would be if the god was as daft as his followers,
which I think is very possible, because if a daft person imagines a god, that god will also be daft.
it seems you have stopped taking your medication, you know that's wrong,
religion has addled your brain to the point where 8 year olds have more sense.

Unless you are 8?

 

[Cabal]

Not really.

Right now, I'm Embedded Age, with YEC overtones; but I'm considering becoming YEC, with Embedded Age overtones.

I know that sounds like fancy doubletalk, but I want the focus of what I am to be on this universe being created 6100 years ago.

The biggest difference now is, I'm dropping my faith in science's dogma about rocks and such being billions of years old. I just don't think science deserves the respect I've been giving it in that area.

I know you guys have machines that calculate these ages, but they're built under the assumption of long age in the first place.

So "good bye" to Embedded Age --- "hello" to YEC.

Fair enough, well I genuinely wish you well with that, I will be praying. If I may ask though - you'll be focusing on the 6100 years more from a Biblical point of view than an empirical point of view, yes? I seem to recall you posting a challenge that illustrated that there could be no evidence for the YEC models? Maybe I'm getting mixed up.

 

[Cabal]

I do not normally pander to idiots but in this case I will make an exception,
so you think god planted seeds? where did the seeds come from? (no plants)
if god had to magic the seeds, why not magic the trees?
the only reason I could think why a god would magic seeds would be if the god was as daft as his followers,
which I think is very possible, because if a daft person imagines a god, that god will also be daft.
it seems you have stopped taking your medication, you know that's wrong,
religion has addled your brain to the point where 8 year olds have more sense.

Unless you are 8?

Dude, come on, this isn't a debate thread. There are plenty of people on both sides of this debate who have announced a change in their philosophies over the months, let's not turn this one into a farce.

 

[AV1611VET]

Fair enough, well I genuinely wish you well with that, I will be praying.

Thank you, Cabal! Check your reps.

If I may ask though - you'll be focusing on the 6100 years more from a Biblical point of view than an empirical point of view, yes?

Indeed --- as I always have.

I seem to recall you posting a challenge that illustrated that there could be no evidence for the YEC models? Maybe I'm getting mixed up.

Was is my TE Challenge, my Last Thursdayism challenge, or my Apple Challenge you're talking about?

 

[dad]

I do not normally pander to idiots but in this case I will make an exception,
so you think god planted seeds? where did the seeds come from? (no plants)
if god had to magic the seeds, why not magic the trees?
the only reason I could think why a god would magic seeds would be if the god was as daft as his followers,
which I think is very possible, because if a daft person imagines a god, that god will also be daft.
it seems you have stopped taking your medication, you know that's wrong,
religion has addled your brain to the point where 8 year olds have more sense.

Unless you are 8?

Where would God get seeds? Well, maybe He created them?? Where? Well, I don't know, but they ended up, obviously on earth. He did HOVER above for a while. Maybe He created the seeds there? Who cares?? I think it is easier than digging millions of 60 foot wide,. and twenty foot deep trenches - to poof full grown trees into! And you insult our sense??

 

[Cabal]

Was is my TE Challenge, my Last Thursdayism challenge, or my Apple Challenge you're talking about?

Return of the Apple Challenge, I believe. You referred to it in the isotopes debate iirc....

 

[Psudopod]

Originally Posted by Cabal

If I may ask though - you'll be focusing on the 6100 years more from a Biblical point of view than an empirical point of view, yes?
​

Indeed --- as I always have.

Well done for being able to examine your own postion. This is an important and not easy skill. While I think you're moving in the wrong direction, at least you are open to the idea of moving.

I take it you are using the 6100 figure from the Bishop Ussher dates? (forgive my spelling there if it's incorrect). How would it affect your position if it could be shown that the earth was at least older that 6100 years?

 

[juvenissun]

In my opinion, time hasn't changed at all. One second today is the same as it was when God created the universe.

In a sense, you are right. But one second to God could be different from one second to us. And we do not know which second should we use in referring to time.

 

[AV1611VET]

I seem to recall you posting a challenge that illustrated that there could be no evidence for the YEC models?

My Apple Challenge is to show that God did not leave behind any evidence of ex nihilo creation - (except for His Documentation, of course). Thus anyone who is looking for, or demanding evidence for it, is SOL - (shamefully outta luck).

 

[AV1611VET]

Well done for being able to examine your own postion.

Thank you --- I appreciate the pat on the back.

I take it you are using the 6100 figure from the Bishop Ussher dates?

Correct.

How would it affect your position if it could be shown that the earth was at least older that 6100 years?

I would adjust my figures accordingly. I went through it myself though, and came up with something like 6047 years or thereabout --- so 6100 is actually a ballpark figure.