Forza will be awesome, you should really check that game out, it and GT4 are gonna have one heck of a competetion going on....Forza was started in 2001 or 2002 and the graphics are awesome as well as physics and everything, and it's not even done, will be by april or so....it's got pretty much GT4 but I think the customizing will be a bit different, and also allows engine swaps......the parts are real parts for each car on forza also, so you won't just have a "engine upgrade" you'll be selecting parts that really do fit in real life to each vehicle....meaning you can't buy a body kit for a Mustang that would never fit a Camaro, and also EVERYTHING will affect performance....the thing wear the xboxs specs come in is now....because other games on PS2 are unable to compute the information needed and also race at the same time, sooo (i could get into that but i won't) and also there is a new AI in forza NEVER EVER seen before, it is literally as close as it comes to human intelligence with driving, the computer actually will learn ur habits, when you tend to put on break, when you like to be pushing the accelerator, everything very nit picky...just check out sites out there tons of them on forza....but underground is a good racing game, just it's still too arcady, and yes ToCA is good, but there are others too if you look real hard.......and forza will be online