WWJD club

spiritwinds · May 10, 2007

I wanted to make each person here aware of this problem, because too many people in the Church are either unaware of it or choose to ignore it. What do I think can be done? Well, first of all, I think that many believers need to overcome their prejudices against people who are different than they are both culturally and spiritually. They need to accept the fact that not everyone worships God in the same manner as they do. They need to understand that God, our Great Father, the Great Spirit, can be worshipped in any tongue. One race is not superior to another. We are all related, and all connected through God, our Creator. And secondly, I think that there are many believers who need to re-examine their commitment to the Great Commission. They need to have the compassion, love, and mercy that Jesus has for all people, despite their sins, the color of their skin, age, gender, or culture.

Criada · May 10, 2007

spiritwinds said:
If almost 3 million people had never heard the Gospel, would you say that the church had neglected them? That is what has happened to the 510 tribes of American Indians living in the United States alone. The majority of churches in this country have and still are neglecting the indigenous peoples. Why is that? Are these people unworthy of attention? Are their lost souls less significant than the souls of other peoples?

spiritwinds said:

I wanted to make each person here aware of this problem, because too many people in the Church are either unaware of it or choose to ignore it. What do I think can be done? Well, first of all, I think that many believers need to overcome their prejudices against people who are different than they are both culturally and spiritually. They need to accept the fact that not everyone worships God in the same manner as they do. They need to understand that God, our Great Father, the Great Spirit, can be worshipped in any tongue. One race is not superior to another. We are all related, and all connected through God, our Creator. And secondly, I think that there are many believers who need to re-examine their commitment to the Great Commission. They need to have the compassion, love, and mercy that Jesus has for all people, despite their sins, the color of their skin, age, gender, or culture.

Click to expand...

This is terrible! I will pray! Not sure what else I can do - we don't have many American Indians in England.
But if there is any way of protesting this situation, let me know.
It is so sad that people are not welcomed in Jesus' name.
Praying that God will open the eyes of His people to see all God's children as their brothers and sisters.

cristianna said:

Not that long ago my husband tossed me a magazine with it opened up to a section featuring a restaurant where we previously lived. He asked, "Don't you know the owners of this restaurant?". Of course, I was thinking-- what are you talking about; I have no idea who owns that restaurant. I read the featured article (about their abundant success, community outreach, etc) and the couple that own the restaurant, well-- the wife, was a great friend of mine from school!

Sadly we lost touch with each other. When all of us graduated I already had one child. So everyone went off to college while I stayed behind. God is leading me to get back in contact with her; therefore, I bought an *interesting* card. I really don't remember how the company classified it. It's not an "across the miles", or "miss you" or "friendship" or "congrats"... it's oddly a combination of all the above! How great is that???? So I'm going to write her today and get the card out in the mail.

Click to expand...

Great! Praying that you will re-establish this relationship and God will use you in it.

wolfman544 · May 10, 2007

Eldaah said:
Nope, unfortunately, I don't think we can get high-speed internet here.

I really missed being able to check in on you all. I'm gonna try to catch up on what I missed now.

Bummer, but it's good to see ya on again.

spiritwinds said:
If almost 3 million people had never heard the Gospel, would you say that the church had neglected them? That is what has happened to the 510 tribes of American Indians living in the United States alone. The majority of churches in this country have and still are neglecting the indigenous peoples. Why is that? Are these people unworthy of attention? Are their lost souls less significant than the souls of other peoples?

I did not know that, and it does sadden me to know that people can be so cruel.

4Everloved said:
Spiritwinds, my heart bleeds as I read your post. It is not right for lost people to be ignored. Jesus wants us to be His hands and feet and reach out to the lost, whether they be indians, chinese, or your average white yuppie. Or the homeless. People of all ages and all sizes and all colors need Jesus and need eternal salvation, forgiveness, and grace.

Lord, touch our hearts and move us to repentance for forgetting people groups and leaving many to not hear of Jesus' love for them.

You care about each individual, Lord. Inspire us to love and move in Your Character! To do what You would do.

I pray this prayer sincerely in Jesus name, Amen.

I fully agree with you there,

cristianna said:
Thank you for the offer. Last night there were some emails circulating around our neighborhood about everyone experiencing problems. Our local ISP has been notified, so hopefully it really is an issue on their end.

We missed seeing you around too! I know how frustrating it is on dial up. I think it was only last year we were able to get highspeed where we are.

SpiritWinds... that is dreadful. I was not even aware of this information. What do you think can be done?

Not that long ago my husband tossed me a magazine with it opened up to a section featuring a restaurant where we previously lived. He asked, "Don't you know the owners of this restaurant?". Of course, I was thinking-- what are you talking about; I have no idea who owns that restaurant. I read the featured article (about their abundant success, community outreach, etc) and the couple that own the restaurant, well-- the wife, was a great friend of mine from school!

Sadly we lost touch with each other. When all of us graduated I already had one child. So everyone went off to college while I stayed behind. God is leading me to get back in contact with her; therefore, I bought an *interesting* card. I really don't remember how the company classified it. It's not an "across the miles", or "miss you" or "friendship" or "congrats"... it's oddly a combination of all the above! How great is that???? So I'm going to write her today and get the card out in the mail. [/left]

Awesome, that's good to hear or see

spiritwinds said:
Yes, we are to be the hands and feet of Jesus, but so many believers are not. And that is most unfortunate. American Indians over these many years have been so stereotyped, demonized, and romanticized that the perception of these peoples is now so terribly distorted. And because the culture and spirituality of the American Indian has been exploited and greatly misunderstood for so long, they are still disrespected, oppressed and treated like social outcasts.

American Indians are not a relic of the past. American Indians are not mascots, squaws, redskins, savages or 'wild' Indians. We are people, and it is time that we are treated as such. And it is time for the majority of churches and (white) Christians to start valueing our souls just as they value the souls of other peoples.

I have shared an article in my blog entitled When Going to Church is Sin. I would like for each of you to read it, so that you may better understand the struggles of American Indians within the Church.

I agree with you there, I will read your post.
I don't know why people and churches aren't reaching out to the American Indians.

Why do we treat indigenous peoples so poorly? The Australian Aboriginals have similar issues to I think, but why I don't know.
It is sad though.

spiritwinds said:
I wanted to make each person here aware of this problem, because too many people in the Church are either unaware of it or choose to ignore it. What do I think can be done? Well, first of all, I think that many believers need to overcome their prejudices against people who are different than they are both culturally and spiritually. They need to accept the fact that not everyone worships God in the same manner as they do. They need to understand that God, our Great Father, the Great Spirit, can be worshipped in any tongue. One race is not superior to another. We are all related, and all connected through God, our Creator. And secondly, I think that there are many believers who need to re-examine their commitment to the Great Commission. They need to have the compassion, love, and mercy that Jesus has for all people, despite their sins, the color of their skin, age, gender, or culture.

I fully agree with you.
It reminds me of an old Sunday School song. Jesus Loves the Little Children.
"Red and yellow, black and white. They're all lovely in His sight. Jesus love the little children of the world."
Why do we forget such simple truth's as we age?

spiritwinds · May 10, 2007

I do not believe children are born racist, but rather they are taught to be. They are taught to be intolerant of those who are different, and taught to feel superior to others.

wolfman544 · May 10, 2007

spiritwinds said:
I do not believe children are born racist, but rather they are taught to be. They are taught to be intolerant of those who are different, and taught to feel superior to others.

Indeed, and how sad that is that we teach our children these things

spiritwinds · May 10, 2007

Many people teach their children such things out of ignorance. That is why I speak so loudly against such injustice and prejudice.

spiritwinds · May 10, 2007

Children are taught to hate. And many children learn to feel ashamed of themselves, as I did. As a child, I quickly learned that claiming my NDN blood was the cause of the repeated ridicule, mistreatment, and rejection I was forced to endure while growing up. I learned to be ashamed of my NDN blood and name. Even today, I struggle to share my real name in public, although in Cherokee it means, 'clothed in splendor'. I have been called names like 'pale face,' and 'half-breed'. But the criticism and ridicule I have endured over the years has not been limited to people outside the Church. It has been a great struggle for me not to be angry, resentful, and bitter. It has been a struggle for me not to despise those who have wronged me. But my Great Father reminds me of the story of the two wolves within, and I must not feed the wolf inside of me that is constantly angry because of the injustice done against me, my People, all my relations, and my Ancestors.

wolfman544 · May 10, 2007

spiritwinds said:
Many people teach their children such things out of ignorance. That is why I speak so loudly against such injustice and prejudice.

as we all should.
If the church actually took a stand, how much could we change?

spiritwinds · May 10, 2007

There will have to be a time of healing and forgiveness before any kind of changes can be made. And during this time of reconciliation, there must be honest communication, and an acceptance of differences.

wolfman544 · May 10, 2007

spiritwinds said:
Children are taught to hate. And many children learn to feel ashamed of themselves, as I did. As a child, I quickly learned that claiming my NDN blood was the cause of the repeated ridicule, mistreatment, and rejection I was forced to endure while growing up. I learned to be ashamed of my NDN blood and name. Even today, I struggle to share my real name in public, although in Cherokee it means, 'clothed in splendor'. I have been called names like 'pale face,' and 'half-breed'. But the criticism and ridicule I have endured over the years has not been limited to people outside the Church. It has been a great struggle for me not to be angry, resentful, and bitter. It has been a struggle for me not to despise those who have wronged me. But my Great Father reminds me of the story of the two wolves within, and I must not feed the wolf inside of me that is constantly angry because of the injustice done against me, my People, all my relations, and my Ancestors.

I am sorry and saddened to hear this, especially to hear how God's people have gone so far astray, and forgotten God's love for all, as to do that.
I am glad to hear that you are reacting in a Godly way to it

I will keep you and the whole situation in prayer.

wolfman544 · May 10, 2007

spiritwinds said:
There will have to be a time of healing and forgiveness before any kind of changes can be made. And during this time of reconciliation, there must be honest communication, and an acceptance of differences.

indeed there must

Eldaah · May 10, 2007

4Everloved said:
Hi. Blessings to all of you!

I found this story at another site this morning. The story touched me, and I wanted to share it here with you all. You will see what I mean when you read it.

___________

"EXCUSE Me, ARE YOU JESUS?"
-Author Unknown.

As you read this think about what you would do!

A few years ago a group of salesmen went to a regional sales
convention in Chicago. They had assured their wives that they
would be home in plenty of time for Friday night's dinner. In their
rush, with tickets and briefcases, one of these salesmen
inadvertently kicked over a table which held a display of apples.
Apples flew everywhere. Without stopping or looking back, they
all managed to reach the plane in time for their nearly missed boarding.

ALL BUT ONE !!! He paused, took a deep breath, got in touch with
his feelings, and experienced a twinge of compassion for the girl
whose apple stand had been overturned.

He told his buddies to go on without him, waved good-bye, told
one of them to call his wife when they arrived at their home
destination and explain his taking a later flight. Then he returned
to the terminal where the apples were all over the terminal floor.

He was glad he did.

The 16 year old girl was totally blind! She was softly crying, tears
running down her cheeks in frustration, and at the same time
helplessly groping for her spilled produce as the crowd swirled
about her, no one stopping and no one to care for her plight.

The salesman knelt on the floor with her, gathered up the apples,
put them back on the table and helped organize her display. As he
did this, he noticed that many of them had become battered and
bruised; these he set aside in another basket.

When he had finished, he pulled out his wallet and said to the girl,
"Here, please take this $40 for the damage we did. Are you okay?"
She nodded through her tears. He continued on with, "I hope we
didn't spoil your day too badly."

As the salesman started to walk away, the bewildered blind girl
called out to him, "Mister...." He paused and turned to look back
into those blind eyes. She continued, "Are you Jesus?"

He stopped in mid-stride, and he wondered. Then slowly he made
his way to catch the later flight with that question burning and
bouncing about in his soul: "Are you Jesus?" Do people mistake
you for Jesus? That's our destiny, is it not? To be so much like
Jesus that people cannot tell the difference as we live and interact
with a world that is blind to His love, life and grace.

If we claim to know Him, we should live, walk and act as He would.
Knowing Him is more than simply quoting Scripture and going to
church. It's actually living the Word as life unfolds day to day.

You are the apple of His eye even though we, too, have been
bruised by a fall. He stopped what He was doing and picked you
and me up on a hill called Calvary and paid in full for our damaged fruit.

Please share this,,,, Sometimes we just take things for granted,
when we really need to be sharing what we know...

Trust in the Lord with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding; In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He shall direct your paths. Prov 3:5-6

Thank you for posting this. It is a wonderful and thought-provoking story. I have to say, I don't think people see Jesus through me very often. I'm not very much like Him, though I do want to be. I try, but I need to let Him shine through me more often. Thanks for posting that.

cristianna said:
Thank you everyone for the prayers. I did call my neighbor this morning. Of course because we are friends, not just acquaintences, I knew she was not going to answer when the caller id said it was me. I left a message humbly apologizing. I hope this does not ruin a friendship, but it was a great lesson learned. And I will share....

DO NOT under ANY circumstances think it's okay to email a friend, neighbor or relative with a complaint no matter how large or small, no matter how well you know one another, etc. Apparently it can be taken sooooooo far out of context it's not the slightest bit funny. Phone calls with a live person's voice, tone and sincerity is the best.

At least that's the lesson I've learned from it so far. It seems so simple and non-trivial. What inspired me to email? I have no idea other than maybe since we're so friendly I was quite lax in my thinking it could be taken harshly. I regret it and would definitely do it differently if given the opportunity. But I feel so much better knowing I did the right thing by calling to apologize and make peace-- even if it was through an answering machine.

Have a great weekend everyone! I have a ton to do today... not sure when I'll be back on.

Eldaah... I'm thinking about you and praying!

And I'm praying for all of us too!

I hope everything works out ok. I'll pray for you and your friend. Oh, and thank you for your prayers.

cristianna said:
To all of you...

I do hope we truly realize what a blessing we are to each other through this thread. I just wanted to take a second to say it's so relieving and such a blessing to know I--and any of us-- can come here say what I've done, good or bad, and know I will not be judged. But I will be held in thoughts, prayers and given encouragement and support to rejoice or correct my actions.

Have any of you really thought about that? Like truly thought about that. It dawned on me a little bit ago just how supportive and embracing we are of each other.

You know, I don't really think about it that much, but when I do I realize how much God has blessed me through you all. It is a blessing just to have someone to talk to about all that I'm going through. You are all a great blessing to me. Thank you all for being here for me and for each other.

spiritwinds said:
An old Grandfather said to his grandson, who came to him with anger at a friend who had done him an injustice... "Let me tell you a story."

"I too, at times, have felt great hate for those who have taken so much, with no sorrow for what they do. But hate wears you down, and does not hurt your enemy. It's like taking poison and wishing your enemy would die. I have struggled with these feelings many times. "

"It is as if there are two wolves inside me; one is good and does no harm. He lives in harmony with all around him and does not take offense when no offense was intended. He will only fight when it is right to do so, and in the right way."

"But...the other wolf... ah! The littlest thing will send him into a fit of temper. He fights everyone, all of the time, for no reason. He cannot think because his anger and hate are so great. It is helpless anger, for his anger will change nothing."

"Sometimes it is hard to live with these two wolves inside me, for both of them try to dominate my spirit."

The boy looked intently into his Grandfather's eyes and asked, "Which one wins, Grandfather ?"

The Grandfather smiled and quietly said, "The one I feed."

Yes, that is a needed reminder. I have been struggling with anger lately. I have been clashing a lot with my sister lately. I suppose I need to feed the good wolf a little more.

kanga22 said:
Eldaah, How are things going in West Virginia?

Things are going good here now. The only thing that's disagreeable to me is that my family and I are going to have a long drive this weekend. We're going to my oldest sisters wedding this weekend, and it's about a seven hour drive. Then, after the weekend is over, we have to drive seven more hours to get back home. I'd appreciate it if you guys would pray for us to have a safe trip. Unfortunately, that means that I'll disappear from this group for the weekend. I'm sorry I have been gone so much, but it's not really anything I can avoid.

spiritwinds said:
Only around 2% of American Indians today are Christians, even though there has been over 500 years of attempted christianizing of the indigenous peoples. Although I am not full-blood, I have encountered great hostility and criticism from other white Christians because I have embraced my Cherokee and Choctaw heritage. I have been told numerous times that I cannot be Indian and Christian at the same time. I must be one or the other. I have been told that to embrace my heritage is to betray my faith. I do not embrace the spirituality of my Ancestors, although I believe it has been greatly misunderstood by many who are not of Indian descent. Due to the pressure I felt, more than one time I have denied my Indian blood, and at other times I have walked away from my faith in defiance. Finding peace and unity between my white man and red man heritages and my Christian faith has been a great struggle for me.

There is great resentment that has taken root in many American Indians against Christianity because of what was done to our Ancestors in the name of God, and I have known of some who have left the Christian Church because they, too, have encountered great hostility and criticism from white Christians, who tell them that they must worship our Great Father as the white Christians worship him. Now I see this as a tremendous problem for the Christian Church, but I do not see many from either side who have the desire to help resolve this problem. Forgiveness, healing, and peace need to the take place of hate, racism, and resentment. I would like to open a dialogue in the hopes that we can learn from one another, and be encouraged to reach out to the indigenous peoples for Christ.

Nea (nigh-yah)
Spirit Wind

Yes, I can imagine how hard it must be for you. I know we can all help by praying for the indians and for those who harbor resentment towards them. I will pray for them.

cristianna · May 10, 2007

I can honestly say I do not know of any American Indians locally, or even semi-locally. So I wouldn't know where to begin.

The one and only thing I can think of is bringing this to the attention of the local chapter/superintendant-- or however each individuals denomination's chain of command works. Maybe we should be sending letters asking them to appeal to other cultures. Maybe we need to blunt and ask them in what ways are they working to appeal to those other cultures. Maybe we should include reliable statistics for local ethnicities and those abroad. I have no idea how to even acquire that kind of information though.

Even if our group here is nothing but seed planters, it's better than doing nothing-- not that praying is "nothing"-- I mean getting this kind of information out there. I'm really shocked-- speechless, over the information provided.

cristianna · May 10, 2007

Eldaah... seven hours.. that's a DRIVE! Definitely sending prayers of comfort, safety and peacefulness for everyone. Enjoy your time away!

4Everloved · May 10, 2007

cristianna said:
I can honestly say I do not know of any American Indians locally, or even semi-locally. So I wouldn't know where to begin.

The one and only thing I can think of is bringing this to the attention of the local chapter/superintendant-- or however each individuals denomination's chain of command works. Maybe we should be sending letters asking them to appeal to other cultures. Maybe we need to blunt and ask them in what ways are they working to appeal to those other cultures. Maybe we should include reliable statistics for local ethnicities and those abroad. I have no idea how to even acquire that kind of information though.

Even if our group here is nothing but seed planters, it's better than doing nothing-- not that praying is "nothing"-- I mean getting this kind of information out there. I'm really shocked-- speechless, over the information provided.

As Christianna said, even if we are nothing but seed planters....

Yes, indeed, let us be those seed planters! Even if someone else gets to harvest the seeds when they take fruit. To God be the glory.

Eldaah · May 10, 2007

spiritwinds said:
If almost 3 million people had never heard the Gospel, would you say that the church had neglected them? That is what has happened to the 510 tribes of American Indians living in the United States alone. The majority of churches in this country have and still are neglecting the indigenous peoples. Why is that? Are these people unworthy of attention? Are their lost souls less significant than the souls of other peoples?

I had no I dea there were so many lost among the indians. I have seen a lot of short-term mission agencies that go to the american indians, so I thought there would be a lot less lost among them. I guess I was wrong.

spiritwinds said:
Yes, we are to be the hands and feet of Jesus, but so many believers are not. And that is most unfortunate. American Indians over these many years have been so stereotyped, demonized, and romanticized that the perception of these peoples is now so terribly distorted. And because the culture and spirituality of the American Indian has been exploited and greatly misunderstood for so long, they are still disrespected, oppressed and treated like social outcasts.

American Indians are not a relic of the past. American Indians are not mascots, squaws, redskins, savages or 'wild' Indians. We are people, and it is time that we are treated as such. And it is time for the majority of churches and (white) Christians to start valueing our souls just as they value the souls of other peoples.

I have shared an article in my blog entitled When Going to Church is Sin. I would like for each of you to read it, so that you may better understand the struggles of American Indians within the Church.

Yes, you are right, the christians of the USA need t5o do something about this (me included), but what? How can I reach out to them and tell them of the one who died for them, if I live so far away from them? I know I can pray, but what more can I do? I want to help, but I don't know how.

spiritwinds said:
I wanted to make each person here aware of this problem, because too many people in the Church are either unaware of it or choose to ignore it. What do I think can be done? Well, first of all, I think that many believers need to overcome their prejudices against people who are different than they are both culturally and spiritually. They need to accept the fact that not everyone worships God in the same manner as they do. They need to understand that God, our Great Father, the Great Spirit, can be worshipped in any tongue. One race is not superior to another. We are all related, and all connected through God, our Creator. And secondly, I think that there are many believers who need to re-examine their commitment to the Great Commission. They need to have the compassion, love, and mercy that Jesus has for all people, despite their sins, the color of their skin, age, gender, or culture.

Thanks for telling us of this spiritwinds. Do you know of any way we could help?

cristianna said:
Eldaah... seven hours.. that's a DRIVE! Definitely sending prayers of comfort, safety and peacefulness for everyone. Enjoy your time away!

Thank you. I'm not sure how much I'll be able to enjoy it though. With how busy we've been lately, I would much rather just stay home and relax for a few days, but I'll try to make the best of it. Thanks for your prayers.

Criada · May 10, 2007

Will be praying for you Eldaah.
May God surprise you with unexpected blessings this weekend.
We'll miss you!

spiritwinds · May 10, 2007

Prayer is a necessity, but action is also a must. To begin, I recommend this site Warriors for Christ.

spiritwinds · May 10, 2007

Everyone have a blessed evening and a restful night. I would like to acknowledge the compassionate concern given to the issue of the lack of witnessing to NDNs. I want to personally thank those who have responded.

spiritwinds · May 11, 2007

Eldaah, I wanted to tell you that I was not the one who posted the story 'Excuse Me, Are You Jesus?'.

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