Wouldn't it be Great if....

[JohnDB]

Wouldn't it be great if we could trade our ex spouses in on one that behaved and was nice at times?

I think I am going to have to take my ex wife to court. Boy howdy this is going to be expensive and is really going to be bad if I do for her...I really don't want to...but in this case..it is going to cost her a career and maybe even primary custody of our son...I won't mind but...she is going to lose major league if she don't start behaving soon. I am at my wits end and there is a definate paper trail and evidense to prove what she is doing.

Anyone got any ideas as to what to do with "perpetual victims"? and how to out think them?

 

[ido]

Wouldn't it be great if we could trade our ex spouses in on one that behaved and was nice at times?

I think I am going to have to take my ex wife to court. Boy howdy this is going to be expensive and is really going to be bad if I do for her...I really don't want to...but in this case..it is going to cost her a career and maybe even primary custody of our son...I won't mind but...she is going to lose major league if she don't start behaving soon. I am at my wits end and there is a definate paper trail and evidense to prove what she is doing.

Anyone got any ideas as to what to do with "perpetual victims"? and how to out think them?

Wow. I would first suggest that you pray and get right in your heart about your attitude towards your ex. No matter what my ex does, I work very hard to keep a neutral and even prayerful attitude towards him. Your tone does not suggest that you are neutral about your ex. Are you sure the choices you are making are made in the best interest of your son? Or are they emotional choices b/c she is putting you through the wringer over something right now?

My ex is a mess and is continually doing stuff that does not have the best interest of the kids at heart, nor does it always have their safety and welfare at heart. So, I am preparing to go back to court, as well. But, it is with a much heavier heart than you seem to have. JMHO from what I'm reading above.

Custody situations are not a matter of "outhinking" the other party. They are about making choices that protect the children in the middle.

 

[JohnDB]

That is the point of which I am going to be forced to drag her into court over...

The personal attacks that she has perpetrated upon me may be annoying but that is not the issue.

The denial of visitation, the constant accusations of abuse that I have committed towards my son when there isn't the faintest indications that I have done anything. (and I really haven't abused him or even spanked him) and the abuse of her position working for the state when all I want is a day in court to face her allegations and I have the proof that I am not guilty is what I want...

IF I can get a day in the courtroom...she will have plenty to answer for. All I want is a day...actually about an hour. I would much rather she behaved...

 

[ido]

That is the point of which I am going to be forced to drag her into court over...

The personal attacks that she has perpetrated upon me may be annoying but that is not the issue.

The denial of visitation, the constant accusations of abuse that I have committed towards my son when there isn't the faintest indications that I have done anything. (and I really haven't abused him or even spanked him) and the abuse of her position working for the state when all I want is a day in court to face her allegations and I have the proof that I am not guilty is what I want...

IF I can get a day in the courtroom...she will have plenty to answer for. All I want is a day...actually about an hour. I would much rather she behaved...

Honestly? If all they are right now are allegations, then be the better person and let them roll off your back. She will have to have proof of any of those things - documentation, police reports, pictures, etc. before the courts would take her seriously.

You sound angry and vindictive. Neither emotion will serve you well in or out of the courtroom. Your son is the only one that will ultimately suffer, b/c his parents are too busy battling each other to see the damage they are doing to his life.

I suggest you get some counseling to help deal with all of the frustration/anger that you apparently have towards your ex. In fact, get some counseling for yourself AND your son. That would be money much better spent than money for an attorney just so you can defend your pride/reputation, IMO. If you are a good father, your words/actions will speak for themselves to those who matter. Who cares what your ex might say about you, otherwise?

My ex thrives on making me sound like an evil, calculating, shrew of a woman. I could let it bother me - but I choose to take the higher road. It's paid off - my kids know who the stable, "safe" parent is...the one who doesn't badmouth the other parent or fight back when he gets nasty. I could care less what my ex thinks/says about me. My concern is with how my kids view me.

JMHO

 

[ido]

Oh - and just so you don't think I'm completely ranting on you...

If she is denying visitation, you can request a police officer to accompany you for pick-ups when it is your time to exercise your visitation. If she refuses, then you ask for the officers business card. Do this each time and keep good documentation of each incident. Eventually, you can file a motion for contempt to enforce the visitation.

You can't change how your ex behaves but you can definitely change how you respond to the behavior.

 

[JohnDB]

You have things all wrong here...
Yes the boy deserves to have a visit with his father without a police interrogation of "Did your father drink any beer tonight? Does your father use drugs?" etc etc...

I don't usually drink (the stuff costs money that I ain't got) MY character has been slandered so that when I need security clearance to get a job that is going to allow me to see my son every day during the summer (my time with him) that I can't get it...

That is what I am talking about...it is more than me trying to be vindictive...it is about her keeping me from gettting jobs...stealing of my son's affection...and slander and libel...I am not the one in need of couciling here...although you do sound like you could use some time in a chair for thinking that I do.

could be wrong here...but you "Sound" confused...

 

[jcj3803]

Visitation interference is a crime in Illinois. Dunno about other states.

Court is costly, time consuming and aggravating. Or as my biz law prof said over and over again, "Settle!"

My ex and I used a mediator, thank God.

 

[ido]

You have things all wrong here...

I am not the one in need of couciling here...although you do sound like you could use some time in a chair for thinking that I do.

If you talk to your ex at all the way you just addressed me, I think you don't need to say anything more for me to completely understand your situation. That has got to be the most condescending, arrogant attitude I have ever been addressed with on these forums. In fact, the only other person that has ever addressed me in that manner is my ex-husband, so that's not saying much in your favor.

could be wrong here...but you "Sound" confused...

I'm done now. I am pretty sure you're wrong about more than just how I sound.

 

[PrincessConnie]

Visitation interference is a crime in Illinois. Dunno about other states.

Court is costly, time consuming and aggravating.

I think it is illegal in Florida, too. In any event, a judge will write out a bench warrant for anyone denying access to the child for a scheduled visitation. That is what has happened in this case.

The problem is the cost of GETTING to court to make the court aware of it (missing work and therefore pay PLUS having to hire a lawyer). Lawyers are incredibly expensive, and it takes a long time and a lot of
$$ to get to court TO inform them that the court order is being flagrantly disobeyed.

I think that Johnny was not only venting at the injustice of being forced to pay $$ that he doesn't have to report someone who is abusing the system in order to make him squirm (she is an employee of the system), but he is also hoping that someone who has gone through what he is going through now could give him some tips to stop the interferrence from his ex-wife as it is escalating and not going away.

flnativegrl: I could be wrong, but I don't think that John was asking to be insulted and kicked while he was down. Could be why you got such a strong reaction from him; he's always been a gentleman to me, and I've known him for over a year.

It was YOU who told him that he needed counseling in the first place - when all he was doing was asking for some compassion and advice. Why is he the one being rude to suggest that perhaps it applies to you instead?

 

[JohnDB]

Hummmm
Well...
let me see...
The thing about victims is this...they never stop being victims...
Maybe once upon a time they were truly victims...and the perpetrator (bad guy) was dealt with according to the laws that provide for such.

BUT...

That leaves the victim...They become so used to attention...first negative from the perpetrator and then once "rescued" then become comforted by so many concerned people which eventually go away. The victim is left to their own devices...but they so do crave attention. So they become a "victim" again and again. Never mind the truth...it isn't relevant. They go about accusing everyone that they believe they can accuse falsly of being a perpetrator of something. They truly believe this as well...even when nothing has occured.

The innocent people that they constantly accuse of doing some wicked deed are truly innocent...just accused by what the bible refers to as a satan...

These "victims" are the worst form of evil known to mankind. Every most evil perpetrator of attrocities rose in power due to their seemingly charasmatic and sweet disposition...but meanwhile they have someone to accuse for all of thier ills...

Most reasoning people understand that proving a negative is impossible. So...usually when confronted by one of these "victims" they run...and very fast and furiously away. Many are right here on this website...there were plenty on the last one I was a member of...

Rev 12:10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: "Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Christ. For the accuser of our brothers, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down.

Lets see here...Sadaam Hussein, Joseph Stalin, Adolph Hitler...all of these were once "Victims" of some kind of abuse and they in turn abused others...it is a cycle that never seems to end.

And where I don't want to take my ex to court I may have to...I really don't want to hurt her...she is my son's mother...I may be left no choice in the matter...because this "victim" refuses to stop harrasing me. But when I do go...there is going to be a reconing...she has left a huge paper trail that can't be denied. And she will be left without a career, financial support, or her son.

 

[dluvs2trvl]

flnativegrl: It was YOU who told him that he needed counseling in the first place - when all he was doing was asking for some compassion and advice. Why is he the one being rude to suggest that perhaps it applies to you instead?

The difference to me is that flnativegrl was suggesting John get counseling to deal with his feelings of anger and frustration (which in my opinion come across loud and clear in his posts) and also counseling for his son too so that he can deal with the feelings I’m sure he has about the divorce of his parents…

I suggest you get some counseling to help deal with all of the frustration/anger that you apparently have towards your ex. In fact, get some counseling for yourself AND your son.

John’s post comes across very much as an insult…the information she has to go on is what he has posted in this thread so if she is “confused” possibly John didn’t express himself well or give enough of the facts for her to be able to fully understand the situation…however, again, I think there is a HUGE difference between flnativegrl’s suggestion for counseling (which most people will suggest when someone is dealing with the consequences/ramifications of divorce) and the insulting tone of Johns. *shrugs*

I am not the one in need of couciling here...although you do sound like you could use some time in a chair for thinking that I do.

could be wrong here...but you "Sound" confused...

 

[PrincessConnie]

Dluvs2trvl, I understand what you are trying to say. But in truth, I don't know of a single man on this planet who isn't going to be extremely insulted if he is looking for moral support and legal advice (to deal with someone who is breaking the law), and all he gets is a suggestion that he needs counseling.

In the first place, men HATE the word "counseling". The idea that you can go and talk to some stranger and pay him/her $200, and then your problem goes away...is simply absurd to them. Most men do not understand the value of counseling, just as most women DO (what can I say, we are just smarter than they are, LOL). So a man is going to be insulted when he is told he "NEEDS" counseling.

Secondly, hearing it from a complete stranger, who is not telling him this out of love and concern, is only going to make him even more upset.

I've never seen Johnny talk to a girl like this before. He feels that he is being pretty unjustly judged by a stranger, and he is angry about it. All he did was vent and ask for help. Surely that is not an invitation to be insulted.

Suffice it to say that he seems to remind flnativegrl of her ex, and she probably reminds him of his ex. Not a recipe for instant friendship.

Sometimes it's really hard to reply in a forum, without really knowing the people you are speaking to. And sometimes it's best to tread lightly when someone is obviously hurting and needs to vent. Sometimes if you can't help, then you should at least try very hard not to do any new harm.

His anger won't last. He is a nice guy and isn't a vindictive person. But he has a right to vent, just as we all do when we are doing the best that we can and are being unjustly abused in return.

And yeah, there is a little boy who is being caught in the middle. And that's the worst part of all. Anybody who has children and has gone through divorce will tell you that.

 

[FlatpickingJD]

dluvs2trvl, I understand what you are trying to say. But in truth, I don't know of a single man on this planet who isn't going to be extremely insulted if he is looking for moral support and legal advice (to deal with someone who is breaking the law), and all he gets is a suggestion that he needs counseling. . . .

He should not seek legal advice over an internet forum, period. If he needs legal advice, he should find lawyer in his community and not ask random strangers here for legal advice. Furthermore, lawyers are forbidden by ethical codes from giving specific advice to anyone in these kinds of places. And his posts didn't come across as wanting moral support, he wanted people to tell him he was right and his ex-wife is an evil, vindictive woman who should rot.

. . . In the first place, men HATE the word "counseling". The idea that you can go and talk to some stranger and pay him/her $200, and then your problem goes away...is simply absurd to them. Most men do not understand the value of counseling, just as most women DO (what can I say, we are just smarter than they are, LOL). So a man is going to be insulted when he is told he "NEEDS" counseling. . . .

Wow. I am dumbfounded. I'll leave it go at that.

. . . Secondly, hearing it from a complete stranger, who is not telling him this out of love and concern, is only going to make him even more upset. . . .

And you know this, how? Look, I know fng pretty well around here. She is a good person, a kind soul, who does offer advice in love. She might not pull punches, but sometimes that's necessary. Especially here, where the posts come across as me, me, me, and I'm a victim and the world owes me everything. JMO.

. . . I've never seen Johnny talk to a girl like this before. He feels that he is being pretty unjustly judged by a stranger, and he is angry about it. All he did was vent and ask for help. Surely that is not an invitation to be insulted. . . .

She wasn't insulting him, she was offering what seems to me to be pretty good advice: leave your bitterness at the door, focus on your son when you have time with him, and find a way to deal with your anger and frustration.

. . . Suffice it to say that he seems to remind flnativegrl of her ex, and she probably reminds him of his ex. Not a recipe for instant friendship. . . .

From where I stand, he didn't remind her of her ex till he told her she needed help. He lashed out at someone who was trying to help, irrespective of how you feel about her advice (which, as I said above, is pretty good stuff).

. . . Sometimes it's really hard to reply in a forum, without really knowing the people you are speaking to. And sometimes it's best to tread lightly when someone is obviously hurting and needs to vent. . . .

Then he needs to make it clear that he's venting and looking for support, not advice on how to hurt his ex. That's how the OP hit me.

. . . Sometimes if you can't help, then you should at least try very hard not to do any new harm. . . .

I addressed this above also: she was trying to help, and he reacted harshly.

. . . And yeah, there is a little boy who is being caught in the middle. And that's the worst part of all. Anybody who has children and has gone through divorce will tell you that.

That's something that needs to be reiterated again and again: focus on the child, not on the behavior of the ex. You can't change them, but you can change how you respond to them and you MUST in order to help your child(ren) be as unharmed as possible by the divorce.

 

[ShainaBrina]

There comes a point when we must defend ourselves and take action against our persecutors. It is not really in our children's best interest to enable our ex.
Is it a sin to enable another's sin???

If your ex has committed fraud are you able to press criminal charges?

 

[Mark2010]

Thank you for reminding me of the benefits of having remained single.

 

[HopeFaithLove4u]

That's something that needs to be reiterated again and again: focus on the child, not on the behavior of the ex. You can't change them, but you can change how you respond to them and you MUST in order to help your child(ren) be as unharmed as possible by the divorce.

There comes a point when we must defend ourselves and take action against our persecutors. It is not really in our children's best interest to enable our ex.
Is it a sin to enable another's sin???

Well, I've seen both ends of a divorce.....when I was married to hubby, he was dealing with his first wife too, that was/is psycho.....constantly told the children lies about their dad, was vindictive and always taking him to court for more child support. I mean, my hubby was put thru the 'wringer', BUT never once did he 'lash' out at her in front of the kids or ever say a bad word about her. We, both, just saw who she was.....and loved and did the best we could for the kids, at least they had some stability in their lives.
Fast forward five years, now hubby and I are divorced, but friends for our dd's sake. Our daughter comes first with us both....we don't negate each other in front of our daughter, because like it or not, she didn't have a choice in the matter....I'm her mom and he's her dad and she loves us both.....so we better darn sure, do the best we can to make life as smooth as possible, having to grow up in separate homes.

Kids grow up seeing who is 'toxic' and who did the best they could for their sake. My ex's kids are now 16 and 14 and they see what their mom has been doing thru the years and that their dad has always taken the 'higher road' thru the toxic stuff and now they are closer to the dad, because their mom has done nothing but try to use them to get more money or try to get them to turn on their dad.....they, both, are getting to the point of when they don't want to see their mom anymore.

 

[country woman]

This is a sad situation all of you are hurting and blaming each other is not healthy. Don't you know that your son is suffering here? he loves both his parents. he should not have to choose

 

[memoriesbymichelle]

I can also understand both sides here, but Johnny doesn't know Flnativegrl, and alot of us do and we all know that while she speaks her mind, she always does it with love and experience. She posted what she thought might help, and I feel it was wrong for Johnny to lash out at her. I understand he feels victimized and wants to be vindicated, but it just would never be in the best interest of his son. My husbands ex collected welfare illegally, that WE had to pay back. But my husband would never think about putting his kid's mother in jail. It just wouldn't have benefited anyone and especially the kids. Although it infuriated me at the time, that she could sit on her butt and illegally collect money while living with boyfriends etc. I think he made the best decision. We don't know all the circimstances, but you should really think long and hard before taking you child's mom to court. He will never forget that, no matter if you were right to do it or not. Really pray hard and seek God's wisdom. He is the one that will make things right anyway.

 

[jcj3803]

Thank you for reminding me of the benefits of having remained single.

No charge.

 

[PrincessConnie]

She posted what she thought might help, and I feel it was wrong for Johnny to lash out at her.

Dear Michelle, are you saying that if a Christian lady offends a new member in a public forum, and he takes her words to be insulting, arrogant, and attacking his personal reputation on a new forum (CF), that he is not allowed to feel that way just because she says that her intentions were good?

You see, I am new here, also. And it is my very firm opinion that the public forums are a public place - meaning that they belong to all of us and should be a place where we can all be safe from public insult and ridicule.

Therefore, the right of one member to assert her opinion - even after she clearly sees that she has wounded a new member - is not of primary importance.

As Christians, shouldn't our motto always be "first, do no harm" when we post? There are already so many hurting people here. Sometimes they are going to react defensively no matter how good our intentions may be. Do we really have the right to crush them with our opinions when we can see that we have hurt them - whether intentionally or not?

I guess I am wondering why a mature Christian lady has been told by John and by two of his friends that she has offended him, and she STILL has not apologized privately or publicly, nor has she removed her offensive posts.

One must wonder...is her pride more important to her than undoing the damage that she has done to another Christian? If indeed her intentions were kind, then a sincere and heart-felt apology should easily roll off of her lips, and this drama would have ended days ago. I know that John would also be quick to apologize and delete his own post...because that's the kind of man he is (plus, I would pull his hair if he didn't, LOL.) As Christians, we should all have plenty of practice apologizing. The only reason why this thread is still going in "argument mode" is because FNG has not apologized or deleted her posts. Perhaps FNG can speak for herself on this one.

I am reminded of a Scripture:
"Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love." Ephesians 4:2.

Extremely hard to live up to...even for me.

Especially for me.

But shouldn't we encourage one another to live up to it to our best ability?